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  1. #26
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    Pm me price please!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Nugs Click here to enlarge
    I see this in all your promotional material and it is not true. There is a fair bit more noise introduced, both whining and clunks.
    Not unbearable by any means but it is definitely present.
    And I have still experienced wheel hop in the wet and on a sticky drag strip.
    Yeah I have heard many people complain on facebook about this kit saying the added gear whine was annoying and the rear felt like crap. Granted this was facebook.
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  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Yeah I have heard many people complain on facebook about this kit saying the added gear whine was annoying and the rear felt like crap. Granted this was facebook.
    It's been our experience that when combined with solid or upgraded subframe bushings there can be increased noise, however on stock subframe bushings there's no increase in noise. Likewise we've never heard a complaint regarding increase of harshness or vibration after an install.

    Those experiencing 'whine' or 'thump' should check their differential installs, as noise of this manner is usually associated with differential health.

    Furthermore, when installing this kit you should check your driveshaft center bearing and guibo, issues with both items can become more pronounced with solid differential mounts.

    We have had users who experienced some wheel hop after installing our kit, we were able to resolve these issues by diagnosing rear end bushing, suspension/coil over setup and other component issues, overall your car should be in good mechanical shape - the lockdown kit does not obviate the need for you to perform basic maintenance on your car.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Yeah I have heard many people complain on facebook about this kit saying the added gear whine was annoying and the rear felt like crap. Granted this was facebook.

    In my opinion and experience, you are dealing with the "princess and the pea" syndrome.

    People want a completely stock vehicle feel with a ton of horsepower.

    or people want stock caddy like suspension with coil overs and poly bushings.

    or people want a 800hp clutch to feel stock.


    Its a pain to make people realize modifying cars makes things change, and you can't have the best of both worlds.
    I've put in a few of these kits, and am currently doing one on a huge Xi build we are doing right now..... and while I do feel a noticeable difference in how much the differential ISN'T moving, and you do get some NHV induced via M3 subframe bushings.... In all honestly, I've never installed a kit without M3 bushings- so I have no comment on how they feel on stock E90 bushings..... but you have to give and take. Rick, these are solid kits you sell and I like them a lot for a problem solving issue. Keep up the good work.
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  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rick@defiv Click here to enlarge
    It's been our experience that when combined with solid or upgraded subframe bushings there can be increased noise, however on stock subframe bushings there's no increase in noise. Likewise we've never heard a complaint regarding increase of harshness or vibration after an install.

    Those experiencing 'whine' or 'thump' should check their differential installs, as noise of this manner is usually associated with differential health.

    Furthermore, when installing this kit you should check your driveshaft center bearing and guibo, issues with both items can become more pronounced with solid differential mounts.

    We have had users who experienced some wheel hop after installing our kit, we were able to resolve these issues by diagnosing rear end bushing, suspension/coil over setup and other component issues, overall your car should be in good mechanical shape - the lockdown kit does not obviate the need for you to perform basic maintenance on your car.
    Thanks for the response, didn't want to crap on your thread.

    ABR thanks for your response too.
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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    In my opinion and experience, you are dealing with the "princess and the pea" syndrome.

    People want a completely stock vehicle feel with a ton of horsepower.

    or people want stock caddy like suspension with coil overs and poly bushings.

    or people want a 800hp clutch to feel stock.


    Its a pain to make people realize modifying cars makes things change, and you can't have the best of both worlds.
    I've put in a few of these kits, and am currently doing one on a huge Xi build we are doing right now..... and while I do feel a noticeable difference in how much the differential ISN'T moving, and you do get some NHV induced via M3 subframe bushings.... In all honestly, I've never installed a kit without M3 bushings- so I have no comment on how they feel on stock E90 bushings..... but you have to give and take. Rick, these are solid kits you sell and I like them a lot for a problem solving issue. Keep up the good work.
    Alex, you're the best Click here to enlarge

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rick@defiv Click here to enlarge
    It's been our experience that when combined with solid or upgraded subframe bushings there can be increased noise, however on stock subframe bushings there's no increase in noise. Likewise we've never heard a complaint regarding increase of harshness or vibration after an install.

    Those experiencing 'whine' or 'thump' should check their differential installs, as noise of this manner is usually associated with differential health.

    Furthermore, when installing this kit you should check your driveshaft center bearing and guibo, issues with both items can become more pronounced with solid differential mounts.

    We have had users who experienced some wheel hop after installing our kit, we were able to resolve these issues by diagnosing rear end bushing, suspension/coil over setup and other component issues, overall your car should be in good mechanical shape - the lockdown kit does not obviate the need for you to perform basic maintenance on your car.
    Fair enough, I do have M3 subframe bushings and the kit was installed at the same time as my LSD.
    I am getting the diff and installation checked out for a fourth time on Friday.

  8. #33
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    I can't stress the importance of proper ring gear backlash enough, even a few thousandths of an inch of improper gear mesh can result in gear noise. It's such an important measurement that is often overlooked due to the additional time required to perform a proper backlash and gear mesh measurement-some shops are in a hurry, some set them up perfectly-It truly is a coin toss. Yes, there is a higher probability of experiencing noise with any helical lsd such as quaife or wavetrac-clutch type diffs are generally more quiet by design. There are however a great number of people running helical diffs and M subframe bushings who haven't had a single complaint. One really has to weigh the pros and cons, what's worse-the possibility of a slight gear noise or shredded driveline components and wheel hop? alex@abr did sum it up rather tightly above. Ultimately it's a small price to pay for peace of mind, provided the components were properly installed. I have heard a few improperly installed lsd's, without hearing it in person it is impossible for me to do anything other than speculate sadly....

  9. #34
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    I perfectly understand the compromise and I am not bothered by the amount of noise I experience.
    I was just pointing out that the claim that this introduces no NVH is not necessarily true.

  10. #35
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    Fair enough, granted the no NVH claim was stated way back when the product was originally launched, considering all test cars utilizing oem subframe bushings. Perhaps a sidenote is in order, however I find it odd that the NVH complaints with M bushings are hit or miss(80%:no-20%:yes ratio roughly)-Believe me,I tried to find common ground among all the complaints so that I could pinpoint what the solution is in relation to the kit-the fact of the matter is this: Some people are extremely sensitive to any additional sounds the car is producing, regardless of what your performance expectations may be-and some people were hearing an amplification of a mechanical issue, which will happen if present. It's difficult for me to get into the mindset of individual car owners and what they're perception of what is right or how something "should" be....It boils down to this: I saw an extreme deficit in the E9X's/E8X's ability to transfer power to the ground. I experimented with multiple incarnations of the final version and funneled it down to the most efficient design possible to perform the task. It has proven to work and the drawbacks pale in comparison to the alternatives. Granted, on a daily basis I deal with more aggressive cars overall, which may have have hardened me towards the "racier" side of things, but my job is performance-day in and day out. Perhaps my sensitivity has dulled to particular things over the years, perhaps people's expectations surpass their sensitivities. Couldn't tell you. I make parts that do the job, that's pretty much it. The whole nvh issue didn't even arise until a decent amount of kits were happily in use, some I could solve through communication, some of you are too far to address personally-However, when issues have arisen, no one can debate that I haven't made every possible effort to address it.
    I've seen enough poor installs to know that's a huge possibility, as well as improper gear mesh, and so on, I'm not going to back away from something that simply works, with perfection at such a high percentage. Period. Sorry if that seems harsh, but numbers and logic do not lie-anyone on here who knows me personally can attest to the fact that I am no salesman nor do I have any reason to push something that has not met my standards.

  11. #36
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    winner winner chicken dinner.

    My M3 was a full poly car on adjustable koni shocks and sway barbarians. I LOVED its feel and driving habits. It made no noise. It planted hard and stuck corners like glue.
    We play with race cars and race car components, and track pretty frequently.... I think you figured it out Rick, people like us are desensitized from the race cars, and dont mind a little "pay to play"....

    No matter either way, We'll have your kit in by the end of the week, we think Click here to enlarge
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  12. #37
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    Pm me a price please

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mycoupe Click here to enlarge
    Pm me a price please
    You don't have enough rep for PM's but... you do now.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mycoupe Click here to enlarge
    Pm me a price please
    PM'd

  15. #40
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    There is an old thread over on e90 where NVH is introduced when a Quaife LSD and M3 subframe bushings are combined on a 335. This was happening years before Rick's kit hit the market. I personally had zero NVH with my Quaife alone for over a year. When I added M3 subframe bushings and DEFIV lockdown kit at same time I had some NVH. I initially suspected the lockdown kit until I researched it further and I am now convinced it is the M3 subframe bushings that are to blame. Regardless, the kit is flawless I'd never go back. I am used to the NVH by now it is not severe at all.
    2007 335i E92 | 6AT | MOTIV 750 single turbo | MOTIV port injection | Stage 3 LPFP | Quaife | hlins | Brembo | Akrapovic

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    Zerg Rush
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Yeah I have heard many people complain on facebook about this kit saying the added gear whine was annoying and the rear felt like crap. Granted this was facebook.
    Hmmm, missed this one before.The "rear felt like crap"...REALLY. Do you have one on your car @Torgus or are you just being the atypical internet troll? It's funny to me how a number of people swear by it,in the rain or at the track-however one "bad rep" that is unbeknownst to me (surely due to some kind of mis-installation or some other variable out of my control) spreads like wildfire on the lovely internet.I love how the 1% or less variable gets voiced by some random person who doesn't even own the kit. What is your motivation to troll on something that I, the manufacturer hasn't heard or dealt with? What are the alternatives to not running one-I'm pretty sure there's more documentation in that realm-shredded parts, broken diff covers, axles and driveshafts. Not one complaint of the aforementioned breakage has ever been brought to my attention after a install, not ONCE. Regardless, there are 8 left in this batch and I am pulling the discount this week, The internet has this uncanny ability to nullify any "charitable" feelings I tend to have on occasion.

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rick@defiv Click here to enlarge
    Hmmm, missed this one before.The "rear felt like crap"...REALLY. Do you have one on your car @Torgus or are you just being the atypical internet troll? It's funny to me how a number of people swear by it,in the rain or at the track-however one "bad rep" that is unbeknownst to me (surely due to some kind of mis-installation or some other variable out of my control) spreads like wildfire on the lovely internet.I love how the 1% or less variable gets voiced by some random person who doesn't even own the kit. What is your motivation to troll on something that I, the manufacturer hasn't heard or dealt with? What are the alternatives to not running one-I'm pretty sure there's more documentation in that realm-shredded parts, broken diff covers, axles and driveshafts. Not one complaint of the aforementioned breakage has ever been brought to my attention after a install, not ONCE. Regardless, there are 8 left in this batch and I am pulling the discount this week, The internet has this uncanny ability to nullify any "charitable" feelings I tend to have on occasion.
    Don't let people get to you. Just do your thing. You have great products.

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rick@defiv Click here to enlarge
    Hmmm, missed this one before.The "rear felt like crap"...REALLY. Do you have one on your car @Torgus or are you just being the atypical internet troll? It's funny to me how a number of people swear by it,in the rain or at the track-however one "bad rep" that is unbeknownst to me (surely due to some kind of mis-installation or some other variable out of my control) spreads like wildfire on the lovely internet.I love how the 1% or less variable gets voiced by some random person who doesn't even own the kit. What is your motivation to troll on something that I, the manufacturer hasn't heard or dealt with? What are the alternatives to not running one-I'm pretty sure there's more documentation in that realm-shredded parts, broken diff covers, axles and driveshafts. Not one complaint of the aforementioned breakage has ever been brought to my attention after a install, not ONCE. Regardless, there are 8 left in this batch and I am pulling the discount this week, The internet has this uncanny ability to nullify any "charitable" feelings I tend to have on occasion.
    Holy $#@!, what are you getting tips on business professionalism or how to conduct yourself on the internet from VTT or something?


    I ASKED because it was a complaint I have heard multiple times from multiple people online so I asked you the designer/manufacturer about it and if you could comment on it in your thread. I didn't make it in another thread as an off comment or dig I posted it in the correct place. I'm not going to buy a product I have heard multiple negative reviews from before addressing those with the manufacturer. I did it publicly because I am sure I am not the only person who has heard such complaint about your kit. Instead of taking it as an insult think of it as a chance to fix negative comments that are floating around about your product. BTW you just came off like a huge $#@!ing tool.


    Please tell me more about how people ripped off your intake spacer and it was your design and unique.

    Boo Hoo I don't like how the internet is threating me today. Discount is now pulled? LOL serious lack of professionalism. I hope this isn't your day job.
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  20. #45
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    No, @Torgus I think your response is pretty lame.

    Im not sticking up for Rick or anything, but I just re-read his post and I dont think its out of line. He pretty much spelled out exactly what happens in internetz land.
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  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    No, @Torgus I think your response is pretty lame.

    Im not sticking up for Rick or anything, but I just re-read his post and I dont think its out of line. He pretty much spelled out exactly what happens in internetz land.
    Right. So when did asking a legitimate question makes someone a troll?
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  22. #47
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    I guess I read it differently?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    I guess I read it differently?
    I thanked both of you guys immediately after you both responded to my post explaining why what I read negatively on line about this product should not be of concern and was untrue...I even went on to say I wasn't trying to crap on his thread.
    Last edited by Torgus; 05-05-2014 at 10:38 AM.
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    Well there was a little bit of crapping from what I read...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well there was a little bit of crapping from what I read...
    Mmhmmm, and then more after that even. Whatever. The plate comment is adorable. Love it.

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