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    Mishimoto intercooler?

    I'm looking at my options for an intercooler and initially the Mishimoto looks like it'd do a good job with very AMS-like cast end tanks but a bit smaller so no wasted intercooler area shrouded by the bottom of the bumper.

    BUT...

    I found a laughable "Engineering Report" here:

    http://www.mishimoto.com/bmw-335i-07...tercooler.html

    Where the 'comparison' air temp graph CLEARLY shows that the inlet temp with the Mishimoto is considerably lower but the outlet temp is not as much lower than stock compared to the difference in inlet temp. If the data is there clear as day, that's a pretty good indication to go back to the drawing board!

    Thoughts?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bradsm87 Click here to enlarge
    I'm looking at my options for an intercooler and initially the Mishimoto looks like it'd do a good job with very AMS-like cast end tanks but a bit smaller so no wasted intercooler area shrouded by the bottom of the bumper.

    BUT...

    I found a laughable "Engineering Report" here:

    http://www.mishimoto.com/bmw-335i-07...tercooler.html

    Where the 'comparison' air temp graph CLEARLY shows that the inlet temp with the Mishimoto is considerably lower but the outlet temp is not as much lower than stock compared to the difference in inlet temp. If the data is there clear as day, that's a pretty good indication to go back to the drawing board!

    Thoughts?
    Approved.

    Moved to N54 section
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
    - N54 6AT WR 711whp 637wtq-
    -N54 WR 1/4mile trap: 133.57mph- -

  3. #3
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
    Approved.

    Moved to N54 section
    You're starting to get on my nerves.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
    Approved.

    Moved to N54 section
    Thought I posted in the N54 section or am I missing some sort of joke?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bradsm87 Click here to enlarge
    am I missing some sort of joke?
    Jokes are usually funny but yes.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Whatever peasants.
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
    - N54 6AT WR 711whp 637wtq-
    -N54 WR 1/4mile trap: 133.57mph- -

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
    Whatever peasants.
    Peasants these days..
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    Peasants these days..
    $#@!ing peasants.

    OK lets get this back on topic.

    OP, just get a name brand FMIC, i've never heard of Mishimoto




  9. #9
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    Wedge commented on the other forum about it being the HPF intercooler. Looking at Mishimoto's website it looks like they have quite a few products. Decent video's too. Not sure how there catch can would do on the N54 but it's a design I've never seen before.
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, VTT Inlets, UR Intake, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, DSS Axles, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bradsm87 Click here to enlarge
    I'm looking at my options for an intercooler and initially the Mishimoto looks like it'd do a good job with very AMS-like cast end tanks but a bit smaller so no wasted intercooler area shrouded by the bottom of the bumper.

    BUT...

    I found a laughable "Engineering Report" here:

    Where the 'comparison' air temp graph CLEARLY shows that the inlet temp with the Mishimoto is considerably lower but the outlet temp is not as much lower than stock compared to the difference in inlet temp. If the data is there clear as day, that's a pretty good indication to go back to the drawing board!

    Thoughts?
    Hey guys,

    Though we should chime in here to clear up some confusion regarding our intercooler.

    Our intercooler was completely designed in-house by our engineering team and has no relation to any other products on the market. We conducted a ton of testing and collected data regarding performance and cooling efficiency.

    The difference you see with inlet temperatures is easily explained.

    All testing was completed on our dyno with garage temperatures in the mid to high 60's. Our fans provided 40 mph of wind on the FMIC during each pull. Actual road testing would result in greater wind speeds and likely more efficient cooling for both coolers. This controlled environment provides a legal, safe way to provide an apples-to-apples test of our product.

    Each set of tests performed were identical from the factory cooler to the Mishimoto unit. The sensors are located in each end tank of the cooler. The factory cooler inlet is quite restrictive compared to the expanded tank of our cooler and features a smaller volume. This restriction likely caused an increase in heat for that particular area of the cooler resulting in the variance you see. If we had probes closer to the turbocharger compressor outlet (Where the volume is identical in both tests) we would see nearly identical temperatures. The main focus is on the outlet temperatures, which are clearly lower than the factory cooler. This is due to reduced restriction and a more efficient core.

    Let me know if you have questions about this!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
    Wedge commented on the other forum about it being the HPF intercooler. Looking at Mishimoto's website it looks like they have quite a few products. Decent video's too. Not sure how there catch can would do on the N54 but it's a design I've never seen before.
    Thanks for swinging by the site! We have been developing cooling products for quite some time and we are currently in the R&D process for new E90, E46 and E36 products.

    We are also taking a look at the CCV system for the E90 this week, we have a 335I in the shop for oil cooler and radiator testing. Click here to enlarge

  11. #11
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    I've had mishimoto radiators on both of my Mitsubishis. I will vouch for their quality. Also, @mishimoto you guys have a lifetime warranty right? I haven't seen/used a mishimoto FMIC yet but I'd def be willing to try one.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


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    Very solid end tank design.
    @mishimoto it might be a good idea to reach out to one of the proven members on here and offer them a sweet deal to install your FMIC and do some testing to provide the community some customer reviews. Since you're new to the community, that's prob the best way to get your name out there.

    Click here to enlarge
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


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    I've run Mishimoto parts on my Subaru as well, so I can vouch for their quality. They are well know in the Subaru world.

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    Are those end tanks machined to take the stock accordion hoses? If so that would be enough to turn me away.

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    Tony, so is the HPF. I don't see why a Tbolt clamp wouldn't secure a coupler to it. People use a Tbolt clamp and coupler fairly successfully on the TB even though I'm not a fan of that and it's machined to take that stock C clamp.
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    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    Tony, so is the HPF. I don't see why a Tbolt clamp wouldn't secure a coupler to it. People use a Tbolt clamp and coupler fairly successfully on the TB even though I'm not a fan of that and it's machined to take that stock C clamp.
    Its not the coupler its the hoses you want to get rid of. Those stock ones impart all sorts of weird vortices into the flow once its cranked up. I agree you can prob just clamp a normal connector on there, but unless they are going to include better connections that use the existing factory connections (which I like) then why not just make it a normal rolled lip connection?

  17. #17
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    I agree. I was a fan of my Agency Power FMIC because it came with new hot side hard piping too. Not sure if this one comes with a replacement for that crappy accordion hose or not. Actually I really don't remember who's kits came with replacement hard piping and who's did not. I'm pretty sure the AA Sport we did last year re-used factory plastic piping. hmmm....

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Its not the coupler its the hoses you want to get rid of. Those stock ones impart all sorts of weird vortices into the flow once its cranked up. I agree you can prob just clamp a normal connector on there, but unless they are going to include better connections that use the existing factory connections (which I like) then why not just make it a normal rolled lip connection?
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


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    There is a small market for people wanting to retain the OEM connectors but with most cars being out of warranty I would think this market is getting smaller. I would think it would be smart to offer a way to do both, maybe put bead around the connectors and offer an add on kit with the silicone elbows and proper clamps.
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, VTT Inlets, UR Intake, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, DSS Axles, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    I agree. I was a fan of my Agency Power FMIC because it came with new hot side hard piping too. Not sure if this one comes with a replacement for that crappy accordion hose or not. Actually I really don't remember who's kits came with replacement hard piping and who's did not. I'm pretty sure the AA Sport we did last year re-used factory plastic piping. hmmm....
    The Evolution Racewerks intercooler also comes with hard piping.

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    Sorry but I just can not understand or comprehend how an end tank design can decrease measured intercooler core inlet temps by 25 degrees. All I see is an intercooler producing only a 20 degree cooler than stock intercooler outlet temp when used with 25 degree cooler inlet temps.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mishimoto Click here to enlarge
    Hey guys,

    Though we should chime in here to clear up some confusion regarding our intercooler.

    Our intercooler was completely designed in-house by our engineering team and has no relation to any other products on the market. We conducted a ton of testing and collected data regarding performance and cooling efficiency.

    The difference you see with inlet temperatures is easily explained.

    All testing was completed on our dyno with garage temperatures in the mid to high 60's. Our fans provided 40 mph of wind on the FMIC during each pull. Actual road testing would result in greater wind speeds and likely more efficient cooling for both coolers. This controlled environment provides a legal, safe way to provide an apples-to-apples test of our product.

    Each set of tests performed were identical from the factory cooler to the Mishimoto unit. The sensors are located in each end tank of the cooler. The factory cooler inlet is quite restrictive compared to the expanded tank of our cooler and features a smaller volume. This restriction likely caused an increase in heat for that particular area of the cooler resulting in the variance you see. If we had probes closer to the turbocharger compressor outlet (Where the volume is identical in both tests) we would see nearly identical temperatures. The main focus is on the outlet temperatures, which are clearly lower than the factory cooler. This is due to reduced restriction and a more efficient core.

    Let me know if you have questions about this!



    Thanks for swinging by the site! We have been developing cooling products for quite some time and we are currently in the R&D process for new E90, E46 and E36 products.

    We are also taking a look at the CCV system for the E90 this week, we have a 335I in the shop for oil cooler and radiator testing. Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for the clearing things up and the professional response.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bradsm87 Click here to enlarge
    Sorry but I just can not understand or comprehend how an end tank design can decrease measured intercooler core inlet temps by 25 degrees. All I see is an intercooler producing only a 20 degree cooler than stock intercooler outlet temp when used with 25 degree cooler inlet temps.
    I don't know how that works either but I don't think people should be too concerned. The product looks fine to me, I like the general design, reminds me of my vrsf just with connections for stock plumbing for whatever reason. My sisters car needs an IC, she'd probably appreciate the factory connections even if I don't.

    Anyway, on core efficiencies, flow and what not- a good intercooler will reduce temperature but also be as small of a restriction as possible (restriction leads to pressure drop). You can't have both, to cool well you have to interface with the air, which causes restriction. You have to balance the two.

    There are tube/fin and bar/plate core designs. Tube/fin (stock) are lightweight and very good at reducing iat for their size, but are also very restrictive and prone to heatsoak. Bar/plate are much less restrictive, but not quite as good at reducing temperature. They make up for that by increasing size(surface area etc)/weight usually, which helps a lot and absorbs more before getting heatsoak, and by allowing the turbo to run a bit more efficiently (due to less restrictive design than tube/fin) to produce the same post intercooler boost (lowering core inlet temps slightly in its own right).

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    I've had mishimoto radiators on both of my Mitsubishis. I will vouch for their quality. Also, mishimoto you guys have a lifetime warranty right? I haven't seen/used a mishimoto FMIC yet but I'd def be willing to try one.
    Thanks for the kind words! We do have a lifetime warranty for all of our products. We have numerous universal and direct-fit intercoolers available.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    Very solid end tank design.
    Mishimoto it might be a good idea to reach out to one of the proven members on here and offer them a sweet deal to install your FMIC and do some testing to provide the community some customer reviews. Since you're new to the community, that's prob the best way to get your name out there.
    Thank you! We actually recently ran a giveaway contest on a few forums. Essentially, we provide the intercooler and expect a completely unbiased review with ample pictures and information to give everyone an idea of what they should expect when purchasing our cooler. We are very confident in our products and do this quite often. Unfortunately we do not sponsor this particular forum, so this was not promoted on germanboost.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by .blackgt. Click here to enlarge
    I've run Mishimoto parts on my Subaru as well, so I can vouch for their quality. They are well know in the Subaru world.
    Thanks!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Are those end tanks machined to take the stock accordion hoses? If so that would be enough to turn me away.
    That is correct! We developed this product to install like the factory intercooler and retain the factory hoses. Our goal was a factory-appearing performance cooler.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
    There is a small market for people wanting to retain the OEM connectors but with most cars being out of warranty I would think this market is getting smaller. I would think it would be smart to offer a way to do both, maybe put bead around the connectors and offer an add on kit with the silicone elbows and proper clamps.
    Noted! It is certainly a possibility that we could revisit this and offer an additional version for those who wish to replace the factory piping. Thanks for the recommendation. Click here to enlarge

  24. #24
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    The majority of N54 owners will wish to replace the OEM connectors I'm guessing.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    The majority of N54 owners will wish to replace the OEM connectors I'm guessing.
    Perhaps, but only if they care about performance ;-)

    Neil

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