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  1. #76
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Does anyone have an explanation or diagram of the cam driven design?
    Not a diagram but just some of the bits to give an idea.
    http://image.superchevy.com/f/techni...uel-system.jpg

  2. #77
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    Here's the picture embedded:

    Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nbrigdan Click here to enlarge
    So why do you think there seem to be more manufacturers going to a cam driven HPFP? I learned there was one on the new C7 so with a new cam you can get a crazy amount of fuel out of it.
    More manufactures are going to a cam driven pump???? Huh? EVERY manufacture that wants to do Direct Injection uses a cam driven pump, except some of the diesel stuff and course the N54/5. Why? Well because they work better, they are more reliable, they are a LOT cheaper to produce, they flow more fuel, the list goes on and on. We are dealing with the N54 here, and BMW's choice of going with some crazy chain driven HPFP to fuel the car. They have since gone with a cam driven pump even on the newer N55's, for all the reasons named above I am sure. But the amount of fuel required to run straight E85 at the power levels we want, will NOT be supplied by a single pump cam driven or not. That is a fact. If you do not believe me, take a look at the new M5's TWO cam driven High pressure pumps one for each bank.

  4. #79
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    If the N55 is cam driven does that mean fueling upgrades on it will be easier than the N54?

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    2013 and up are, ao yes it will open up the upgraded pump market to people such as APR etc, BUT and a huge but. Once you get to a certain power level whivh is right around 550 or so on E85 one pump will not provide that kind of fuel, upgraded or now. If you want to run race gas and meth. Then sure yeah a single upgraded cam driven pump will prob get you over 700whp. We are going through all this work to create this upgrade because people want to run E85 and they want to do so and make big power.

  6. #81
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    This change took place in 2012 on some cars...

    The new pump is cam driven but it is still driven off the vacuum pump/timing chain. It is not driven off the intake or exhaust cams.

    Old

    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    New...

    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    If somebody wants to pony up the $1500 to get the parts I'll play with it Click here to enlarge So far I haven't been to motivated to do so Click here to enlarge

  7. #82
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    So it's 'kind of' cam driven? Are the other cam driven pumps fully cam driven?

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    Yeah, instead of direct drive like it was...it now drives a cam of sorts off the vacuum pump that activates the pump 3 times per revolution.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SCGT Click here to enlarge
    Which are all things defined as precision fit items.... which I said....
    Was supporting your comment...

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    Our first plan was to try this. But with so many variables. Will it even flow more, will the dme even control it properly etc. Seemed like an expensive gamble for a lot of question marks.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    My friend I truly wish it were this easy. You are missing about 50 steps in the middle of that. How do you plan to spin the pump with the belt, secure the pump so its perfectly inline with the rest of the acessories so it doesn't throw belts, just to name a few. Ok so you get it mounted, now you want to push 2500 psi plus into the inlet designed to meter 70-100? Also running a pump inline would multiply pressure, we already know the DME doesn't like big pressure differentials, next the fuel control solenoid uses simple orings to seal itself from low pressure fuel passing to the different chambers, would love to see an O-ring that can hold back 2500+ PSI. Now you have zero control over HPFP. 4000 PSI at all times would make the DME very happy I'm sure, not to mention prob blow out the injectors. Your idea isn't a bad one in theory(except for a few fundemental flaws), but there is that pesky saying again. If it were easy it would be done already.

    Edit: To be clear, your idea isn't flawed its actually very right on. Just the gross over simplification is impossible to ignore.
    You misinterpreted my $#@!ty post, I meant to run the two pumps in parallel. I would even size the drive pulley to only pump an extra 30% of fuel or however much extra I need. Since they are both positive displacement pumps I believe you can run varying flow amounts per pump.

    Not sure how much shear the pump axel can take so I would build a bracket that houses a ball bearing and pulley so that the forces from the drive belt do not transmit into the pump itself.

    The output of the lpfp would split into both hpfps. Keep the original low pressure sensor. Output flow from the second high pressure pump would be combined with the output of the original. I'm not sure where or how the fuel metering is done. I thought it was on the high pressure side and the solenoid basically changes the amount of fuel that goes back into the inlet of the hpfp. I could be wrong.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SteveAZ Click here to enlarge
    If by "metering solenoid" you mean the 6 injectors......suuuuurrrrrreeee.....it's so simple...why did nobody think of that....pfffff....
    @VargasTurboTech...where were you on that one?....duh!

    Click here to enlarge
    No I mean the fuel supply control valve. Item 7
    http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=204194&page=2

    mad?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jewber Click here to enlarge
    No I mean the fuel supply control valve. Item 7
    http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=204194&page=2

    mad?
    I'm going to get mad if you keep throwing those links up.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jewber Click here to enlarge
    You misinterpreted my $#@!ty post, I meant to run the two pumps in parallel. I would even size the drive pulley to only pump an extra 30% of fuel or however much extra I need. Since they are both positive displacement pumps I believe you can run varying flow amounts per pump.

    Not sure how much shear the pump axel can take so I would build a bracket that houses a ball bearing and pulley so that the forces from the drive belt do not transmit into the pump itself.

    The output of the lpfp would split into both hpfps. Keep the original low pressure sensor. Output flow from the second high pressure pump would be combined with the output of the original. I'm not sure where or how the fuel metering is done. I thought it was on the high pressure side and the solenoid basically changes the amount of fuel that goes back into the inlet of the hpfp. I could be wrong.
    I just wrote you a really long post on the many many many reasons it is not so simple. Then I realized, honestly I do not want to give away how we figured them all out and got it work. Bottom line, its not easy, there are a LOT of things that need to addressed to get it to work. You idea is sound in theory. Just putting it into practice has now taken 6+ months of our time and cost us into 5 digits.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I just wrote you a really long post on the many many many reasons it is not so simple. Then I realized, honestly I do not want to give away how we figured them all out and got it work. Bottom line, its not easy, there are a LOT of things that need to addressed to get it to work. You idea is sound in theory. Just putting it into practice has now taken 6+ months of our time and cost us into 5 digits.
    You're killing me Tony hurry up I want to post about this stuff!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You're killing me Tony hurry up I want to post about this stuff!
    Well when we feel its ready to be made public we will, not before. You can thank your over aggressive forum members for making us gun shy about including the public in development of anything anymore.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Well when we feel its ready to be made public we will, not before. You can thank your over aggressive forum members for making us gun shy about including the public in development of anything anymore.
    I totally get it I'm just excited.

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  18. #93
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I totally get it I'm just excited.
    I would imagine that you just can't hide it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Well when we feel its ready to be made public we will, not before. You can thank your over aggressive forum members for making us gun shy about including the public in development of anything anymore.

    Click here to enlarge Click here to enlarge
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  20. #95
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    More manufactures are going to a cam driven pump???? Huh? EVERY manufacture that wants to do Direct Injection uses a cam driven pump, except some of the diesel stuff and course the N54/5. Why? Well because they work better, they are more reliable, they are a LOT cheaper to produce, they flow more fuel, the list goes on and on. We are dealing with the N54 here, and BMW's choice of going with some crazy chain driven HPFP to fuel the car. They have since gone with a cam driven pump even on the newer N55's, for all the reasons named above I am sure. But the amount of fuel required to run straight E85 at the power levels we want, will NOT be supplied by a single pump cam driven or not. That is a fact. If you do not believe me, take a look at the new M5's TWO cam driven High pressure pumps one for each bank.
    I think your post could have been summed up a little easier:

    Click here to enlarge

    But on a side note don't hold it against me, I am not a super technical guy, I have limited experience with N54s, older VW 2.0Ts and then am much better with small blocks.

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