04-11-2014, 01:06 PM #1
ESS-Tuning S65 V8 supercharger fuel system upgrade issues
Apparently another VT3 is having issues. I haven't followed this completely but someone pointed me to these pictures to discuss the S65 fuel system. Judge for yourself:
Also, I promissed to show some parts of ESS VT3 fuel system (first 8 photos) which I paid for $5,000 and the discovered reason for the lack of fuel supply...
When the guys in Moscow workshop opened the fuel tank, they decided to check wether Aeromotive additional fuel pump installed by ESS is either working or working OK.... They put that pump into the big 5 gallons plastic box with water and connect it to the battery as it was connected by ESS in the tank... Suddenly it was discovered that with red and black wires connected to "plus" and "minus" as it was done by ESS, that Aeromotive pump was working in the opposite way and did not supply fuel to the fuel system.... Moreover, it did simply take off the fuel back from the fuel system to the tank, thus making overall supply of fuel even worse than by one OEM M3 pump...... to ESS!!!
Simple change of wires connection made the pump doing its business in the desired direction, i.e. pumping the fuel from the basket to the fuel system lines.
That simple discovery is an additional proof of my proposition that my VT3 engine was already been broken by ESS during their 50 dyno tests with such fuel system in place prior to my arrival to their office. Period. My first pull in Finland after 1,000kms being passed from Aremark showed the jerk at 6000 rpms on 4th gear and only God knew that time what this means...
Also, I am enclosing photos of new fuel lines etc, which are made from teflon steel braided rather than those ESS rubber lines.
New lines and re-routing:
04-11-2014, 01:09 PM #2
I'm not a fuel system expert but...
Wow, there is so much wrong with the pictures I dont even know where to start. First the black teflon braided line should never be used under the car. Debris can puncture the line and cause a fire. Second that line with three hose clamps on it is absolutely unacceptable. That is a accident waiting to happen. The jacket on that line is not supposed to be crimped by hose clamps because the jacket moves independent of the rubber hose. The jacket and clamp can slide back and then the hose blows off. In the pictue with the Y fuel line one of the smaller lines they left the black electrical tape on the line. The tape is wrapped on the line to prevent fraying when the line is cut but the tape needs to be taken back off before the line is swedged.
This is important and you might want to do this to the new line. Anytime a line is zip tied to another line, bracket or whatever it should be done like the picture I am attatching with another zip tie to seperate the line so no chaffing happens.
And never use teflon tape on the threads of a AN Flared fitting, it is a straight thread so if the taper starts to leak the teflon tape will do nothing to stop the leak. Only on a taper thread should teflon tape be used.
Oh yea and they punctured the mesh filter in the bottom of the bucket because they were too lazy to take it out first before they drilled it. A Uni-Bit would have made nice holes.
04-11-2014, 01:13 PM #3
04-11-2014, 01:21 PM #4
Looks like the metal lines are replacements for the first set of pics? They are in the same location, but metal instead of rubber...
EDIT - just saw your note - so the second set are the fix.
Nice work on the fuel pump in particular. WTF is that nonsense - did they chew those holes out? No drill in the shop that day?
04-11-2014, 01:36 PM #5
...and to quantify that additionally. Rubber lines can definitely be used, although why would you on a SC build like this? However, the routing of those lines and the way they are attached and clamped is horrible. You can't attach two lines to each other with a single zip tie. They will abrade each other over time, rupture, and hopefully not cause you to burn to death.
Not crazy about the routing on the re-do either, but at least they are metal - so they will hold up better to the abrasion. The lines need to be isolated from each other...this should be basic stuff for people working on a kit like this. I wouldn't run lines like this on my low-pressure carb lines in my 308, let alone a FI car with 700HP! if one of those lines ruptures - look out!
04-11-2014, 01:58 PM #6
My question is whatever the lines may be if they have done so many of these VT3's or whatever why is the fuel system upgrade still 'a work in progress' for them?
And they want to build a 1000 hp M3? If only it was easy as making a thread about their intention to do so.
People are so dumb it is unbelievable.
04-11-2014, 02:05 PM #7
I read the full thread on peepeepost. I thought Drew had a VT3 for like a year+ now? How is this a pre-release build with no warranty?
Guess it pays to have someone like iND install your kit with real BMW techs vs whoever the hell installed this in Scandinavia.
04-11-2014, 02:07 PM #8
LOL - Roman just called the guy stupid and said he is a liar. This is awesome. Earlier in the thread AJ said they were going to help him; then they stopped replying to his calls and emails.
There are always two sides to every story, but what a cluster-$#@!!
04-11-2014, 02:10 PM #9
04-11-2014, 02:28 PM #10
Who the hell can watch an AFR gauge at 120mph+!?
That is why I like the stack gauges - I have the setup to blink red if something is out of whack with oil pressure or temp on my M3. There is no $#@!ing way I'm monitoring a gauge going down a straight at 140mph into a hairpin. I'd rather blow my motor than runoff, flip my car and die.
If that is really the state of the setup, then no one should be driving the car except for ESS, and it shouldn't be a customer getting charged, they should be paying him for R and D!
04-11-2014, 02:30 PM #11
04-11-2014, 02:32 PM #12
Further, if it were running so great, then why did they claim to fight him about picking it up? Why would they implore him to run an AFR gauge? It's not like they said - hey we would like you to do logging. It's like they said - yah here it is since you forced us...it works uhm yah, just like don't drive it without a AFR gauge...
04-11-2014, 02:36 PM #13
What I notice more than anything else is that *IF* (when) you have problem with an ESS built motor setup you will be hung out to dry unless you keep quiet or are used as their promotional mule in exchange for a discount (like the only 'functioning' VT3).
Imagine if Gintani blamed me for the DCT not working instead of working to fix it. I'm sure that would get everyone pretty far.
04-11-2014, 03:37 PM #14
Like a $10 plastic surgeon. This has been going on for a while now. I have been following. That guy got the F you treatment for sure. The ESS crew probably will not travel to Russia any time soon , lol
04-11-2014, 11:14 PM #15
Posted the start of this thread when the OP originally posted the motor's failureCOBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump
"The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna
04-12-2014, 12:39 PM #16Member
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I know two shops one on the west coast and one on the east coast right now having issues with ESS and there motor's.
04-12-2014, 06:10 PM #17