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  1. #26
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    Being that I run 220psi, and dont use progressive I am not sure who you are reffering to. Answer my question, how did you wire it to read injectory duty cycle. That 160psi fav valve sounds like crap, Real injectors use that because a piston needs fuel only at ceratin points, esp a DI system. Turning a meth kit on and off (FAV) fast acting valve sounds like crap. You ever see what a spray pattern of a meth injector looks like when it is turned on off really quick? Its not very good.

    The last thing people want to do is tap fuel injector wires ina car that has fuel injector issues. How much power do you make, put your money where mouth is. Dyno graph or go home.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Being that I run 220psi, and dont use progressive I am not sure who you are reffering to. Answer my question, how did you wire it to read injectory duty cycle. That 160psi fav valve sounds like crap, Real injectors use that because a piston needs fuel only at ceratin points, esp a DI system. Turning a meth kit on and off (FAV) fast acting valve sounds like crap. You ever see what a spray pattern of a meth injector looks like when it is turned on off really quick? Its not very good.

    The last thing people want to do is tap fuel injector wires ina car that has fuel injector issues. How much power do you make, put your money where mouth is. Dyno graph or go home.
    685 rwhp. You really don't have any idea what you're talking about and its so much fun.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    685 rwhp. You really don't have any idea what you're talking about and its so much fun.
    oh yea, you cracked 685 whp on a n54 bmw? Post the graph, what turbo you using. What did you do for a fuel solution.

    Oh wait you are talking about a different car....go read some more junior.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    oh yea, you cracked 685 whp on a n54 bmw? Post the graph, what turbo you using. What did you do for a fuel solution.

    Oh wait you are talking about a different car....go read some more junior.
    Click here to enlarge

    You're so clueless.

  5. #30
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    nope, you're the clueless one. applying logic you used on a 20 year old to this ecu is like $#@!ing your sister....it just aint right.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    nope, you're the clueless one. applying logic you used on a 20 year old to this ecu is like $#@!ing your sister....it just aint right.
    No, I am not. You're the one who doesn't understand - you're spraying methanol at a fixed rate. Are you spraying fuel at a fixed rate? Lets say you have a 350cc nozzle for methanol. When you spray, you are spraying 480 cc/min. Ok. Great.

    Now, lets say you have 6 400 cc injectors, thats 2400cc/min total potential gasoline flow. Since you want to spray water:meth in a 15-20% ratio of TOTAL fueling. that means you want 480 cc/min nozzle. Ok great. So, when you're at 2500 RPM making 12 psi, are you spraying 2400cc/min worth of fuel? NO. Why not? Because thats not where your engine makes the most power. Your ECU is spraying significantly less than MAX fuel into the combustion chamber, however your methanol system doesn't give a $#@!, its going to spray at a constant duty. That means if your injectors are spraying at 30% duty cycle at 2500 RPM, your total meth to fuel ratio is 66%! You're only supposed to be running 15 - 20%. Then, when you're engine is making the peak power around 5000 RPM, you're spraying the same amount as you were at 2500. Yes, the ECU is adjusting your FUEL injectors. But your METHANOL injection is doing nothing in relation. How does it make sense to have 66% methanol per volume at 2500 RPM and then at say 5200 RPM when your injectors might reach 80% DC, you are running 15% methanol. MAKES NO SENSE. IDC is the only way to do it properly and there are systems out there to do it. You might as well just hook a drinking straw from your mouth to your charge pipes and blow - it'd probably be more consistent.

    http://howertonengineering.com/Aquamist_hfs6.html

    Read, learn, and take your head out of your ass.

    And just so you know, I do not have a 20 year old ECU. You're too easy. Are you on other forums?

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Too little under heavy part thorttle? How is that even possible? running up to 7psi part throttle, I don't need any meth based on logs. once 7 is reach its on.


    I am still curiou sto how he wired his system to reach a percentage of the injector duty cycle. lol
    Even with that approach the atomization down low is totally $#@!ed cause pump pressure is $#@! if he wants to maintain the same percentage up top. You need a big nozzle for that....or hes not making $#@! for power and can get away with it.
    @ 6-7psi no meth is needed but I generally like to see meth start around 8-9psi. If you set the turn on point to 100% at 8-9psi with an M10 you can bog if you run a 50/50 mix, or just waste fluid if you're running mostly meth. I've found the best results going progressive 25% @ 8psi 100% by 12psi. Some smarter logic on the controller end will be nice though. With boost alone sometimes your boost drops below 12psi @ redline or during shifts when you normally want 100% meth going in to the next gear. Also I've never liked the idea of running vacuum lines around the car especially to the trunk where most of us put our controllers.

  8. #33
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    But yet, based on my dynos I make crazy tq down low AND it makes no difference. Why do you think that is.

    Let pick apart how your system works.

    You have a pump that, when activiated runs 160psi max. You are spraying that pump at 160psi into 28psi or whatever you run making your injection psi roughly 120-125ish. Now to limit flow and keep you meth/fuel ratio the same you have to close and open a valve really fast to limit meth flow down low. That or it cracks the valve and keep its there. Which ever, it doesnt matter. That valve is located on pump correct? This mean the pressure after valve is not 160psi as it is prior to the valve and much lower after since your diamter of tubing is identical right? By installing that valve and adjusting it, you are keeping the same 160psi but lowering the pressure after the valve, now you are barley spraying any pressure through the injector into 28psi.....sounds like a winning formula man.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    @ 6-7psi no meth is needed but I generally like to see meth start around 8-9psi. If you set the turn on point to 100% at 8-9psi with an M10 you can bog if you run a 50/50 mix, or just waste fluid if you're running mostly meth. I've found the best results going progressive 25% @ 8psi 100% by 12psi. Some smarter logic on the controller end will be nice though. With boost alone sometimes your boost drops below 12psi @ redline or during shifts when you normally want 100% meth going in to the next gear. Also I've never liked the idea of running vacuum lines around the car especially to the trunk where most of us put our controllers.
    I have mine to go off at 7-8psi and never bogged. Also when tracking the car, based on the flow sensor reading, i never drop out of meth besides the 1-2 shift which I can't do quick enough to maintain 7-8psi due to traction issues. Like I stated, i played with rpm/boost tables to control my meth and it made zero difference. Plus I don't run a 50/50 mix as it doesnt max out timing.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    But yet, based on my dynos I make crazy tq down low AND it makes no difference. Why do you think that is.

    Let pick apart how your system works.

    You have a pump that, when activiated runs 160psi max. You are spraying that pump at 160psi into 28psi or whatever you run making your injection psi roughly 120-125ish. Now to limit flow and keep you meth/fuel ratio the same you have to close and open a valve really fast to limit meth flow down low. That or it cracks the valve and keep its there. Which ever, it doesnt matter. That valve is located on pump correct? This mean the pressure after valve is not 160psi as it is prior to the valve and much lower after since your diamter of tubing is identical right? By installing that valve and adjusting it, you are keeping the same 160psi but lowering the pressure after the valve, now you are barley spraying any pressure through the injector into 28psi.....sounds like a winning formula man.
    You're wrong on so many accounts. The valve is not at the pump. It is at the nozzle. The pressure is 160 psi between the nozzle and the pump. Its a constant pressure. Progressive systems based on boost modulate pump speed and are not constant.

    The valve is extremely precise and mimics a fuel injector. It's obviously a winning combination because any REAL methanol kit is not what you have. You are basically putting a fuel injector in your charge pipe, holding it open, and hoping for the best. That's idiotic. My methanol flow follows my fuel curve literally, and I log my methanol flow (which you can't do), and its dead on. I had no tuning to do, my ECU doesn't have to try and adapt or any weird bull$#@!.

    How you talk about this and have no idea how Aquamist systems work is beyond me. You should really just stick to not talking about technical matters. The HFS6 pumps have significantly higher flow than what you're running, are more accurate, and atomize infinitely better. Its almost comical that you are suggesting a constant duty methanol system and are serious about it.

  11. #36
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    If you're running less water it becomes less important as you can't really over fuel the motor due to the closed loop feedback. You just sink your short term fuel trims. So your experience there makes sense. I run a dual M10 setup sometimes and for that I can definitely say boost alone is not enough.

  12. #37
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    Injecting based from injector duty cycle is the most precise method of water/alcohol delivery. The injected mixture must be proportional to load and fuel delivery otherwise the air/fuels ratios will not remain consistent robbing power or worse, damaging the engine.

    taken right from you link. Go log the af ratios of a n54 engine and see that meth has ZERO affect on them. The more you spray the more fuel it takes out to hit its target. Now of course this would change the meth/fuel ratio, but why is this exactly bad? My car shows no power loss, it makes very good tq for what it is down low and the a/f ratio is alway identical.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    If you're running less water it becomes less important as you can't really over fuel the motor due to the closed loop feedback. You just sink your short term fuel trims. So your experience there makes sense. I run a dual M10 setup sometimes and for that I can definitely say boost alone is not enough.
    But this doesn't make sense. You're not running the car on methanol - you're supplementing fuel with methanol. When you do that, you want a consistent percentage. Obviously spraying a pump 100% DC at 2500 RPM is not the same ratio as spraying it at 5200 RPM. Are n54 users really using this $#@!?

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    If you're running less water it becomes less important as you can't really over fuel the motor due to the closed loop feedback. You just sink your short term fuel trims. So your experience there makes sense. I run a dual M10 setup sometimes and for that I can definitely say boost alone is not enough.
    Well I don't run dual m10 or nitrous so that is not needed. According to mr small, you are TOTALLY doing it wrong and $#@!ing up your power. LOL

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    But this doesn't make sense. You're not running the car on methanol - you're supplementing fuel with methanol. When you do that, you want a consistent percentage. Obviously spraying a pump 100% DC at 2500 RPM is not the same ratio as spraying it at 5200 RPM. Are n54 users really using this $#@!?
    Like I stated many times already, unless you tried it on this car, you have no room to talk.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Injecting based from injector duty cycle is the most precise method of water/alcohol delivery. The injected mixture must be proportional to load and fuel delivery otherwise the air/fuels ratios will not remain consistent robbing power or worse, damaging the engine.

    taken right from you link. Go log the af ratios of a n54 engine and see that meth has ZERO affect on them. The more you spray the more fuel it takes out to hit its target. Now of course this would change the meth/fuel ratio, but why is this exactly bad? My car shows no power loss, it makes very good tq for what it is down low and the a/f ratio is alway identical.
    ... yes... injecting based on injector duty is the most precise method lol. That's why I use it. And you're not. You're relying on the engine to actively see quick changes in AFR and account for them. Don't know how many engines you've tuned but you generally don't run closed loop at peak power lol.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Like I stated many times already, unless you tried it on this car, you have no room to talk.
    Sounds like you should inject cement and water into your engine.

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    You're wrong on so many accounts. The valve is not at the pump. It is at the nozzle. The pressure is 160 psi between the nozzle and the pump. Its a constant pressure. Progressive systems based on boost modulate pump speed and are not constant.

    The valve is extremely precise and mimics a fuel injector. It's obviously a winning combination because any REAL methanol kit is not what you have. You are basically putting a fuel injector in your charge pipe, holding it open, and hoping for the best. That's idiotic. My methanol flow follows my fuel curve literally, and I log my methanol flow (which you can't do), and its dead on. I had no tuning to do, my ECU doesn't have to try and adapt or any weird bull$#@!.

    How you talk about this and have no idea how Aquamist systems work is beyond me. You should really just stick to not talking about technical matters. The HFS6 pumps have significantly higher flow than what you're running, are more accurate, and atomize infinitely better. Its almost comical that you are suggesting a constant duty methanol system and are serious about it.
    Who gives a $#@! where that vavle is located dude. CAse in point, the pressure the injector is putting out is limited by that valve, when you drop pressure that low, you atomization takes a dive. Its a different way of slowing down the pump. You are spraying no pressure through a large injector, that is idiotic

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Sounds like you should inject cement and water into your engine.
    OH CAN I? Keep trickling meth in there through a large nozzle

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    nope, you're the clueless one. applying logic you used on a 20 year old to this ecu is like $#@!ing your sister....it just aint right.
    Click here to enlarge Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    ... yes... injecting based on injector duty is the most precise method lol. That's why I use it. And you're not. You're relying on the engine to actively see quick changes in AFR and account for them. Don't know how many engines you've tuned but you generally don't run closed loop at peak power lol.
    You do realize that this engine only runs in closed loop 100 percent of the time right?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    OH CAN I? Keep trickling meth in there through a large nozzle
    I don't have a large nozzle. My nozzles are smaller than yours are. Keep trying.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Who gives a $#@! where that vavle is located dude. CAse in point, the pressure the injector is putting out is limited by that valve, when you drop pressure that low, you atomization takes a dive. Its a different way of slowing down the pump. You are spraying no pressure through a large injector, that is idiotic
    Who gives a $#@!? Thats like saying who cares if a fuel injector is in your fuel tank or in your fuel rail. You're ridiculous.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Who gives a $#@!? Thats like saying who cares if a fuel injector is in your fuel tank or in your fuel rail. You're ridiculous.
    holy $#@! man.
    That valve limits meth right. If that valve is located on the injector, the injector is still seeing less pressure than the pressure going into that valve. If it saw the same pressure, the flow wouldnt be changed.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    ... yes... injecting based on injector duty is the most precise method lol. That's why I use it. And you're not. You're relying on the engine to actively see quick changes in AFR and account for them. Don't know how many engines you've tuned but you generally don't run closed loop at peak power lol.
    Stop making sense here. Some do not understand this concept of closed loop, or open loop. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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