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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yeah I realized that thread was quite a bit off, but i did find the official info, while a lot of the internals are the same, the main bearings on the crank are a different material and the cams are as well, we all know how tempermental bearings can be on bmw motors so this is quite a bit of an improvement, the vanos on the s63tu is more adjustable since it uses 4 planks instead of 5 on the n63tu, the s63tu also has a g rotor pump to add to the existing lubrication system which is another nice improvement. Not to mention they have completely different oil pans. The rod bearings are slightly different as well.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun Click here to enlarge
    Yeah I realized that thread was quite a bit off, but i did find the official info, while a lot of the internals are the same, the main bearings on the crank are a different material and the cams are as well, we all know how tempermental bearings can be on bmw motors so this is quite a bit of an improvement, the vanos on the s63tu is more adjustable since it uses 4 planks instead of 5 on the n63tu, the s63tu also has a g rotor pump to add to the existing lubrication system which is another nice improvement. Not to mention they have completely different oil pans. The rod bearings are slightly different as well.
    Blah blah blah the point being don't tell me to do research when you haven't done your own. What you should be saying is 'sorry I was wrong' right?

    Of course the S63TU has changes but the reason the bore and stroker are the same is so they can re-use parts like the pistons just as I said. It helps them keep costs down just as I said.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Blah blah blah the point being don't tell me to do research when you haven't done your own. What you should be saying is 'sorry I was wrong' right?

    Of course the S63TU has changes but the reason the bore and stroker are the same is so they can re-use parts like the pistons just as I said. It helps them keep costs down just as I said.
    How so? You said they have the same internals, they dont. BMW already makes solid pistons, rods, crank shafts, its bearings that are the weak point and those are different, not to mention the crosshatched exhaust manifold and completely different cam timing. So im waiting for the "sorry i was wrong". Regardless, the initial argument was about the s55 and n55, while the s63/n63 share the same block material and design which is why they have the same pistons, rods, and crank. The s55 is not the same material as the n55 so they cant share the same internals such as pistons. Which you said they did making you incorrect so again I'm waiting for the 'sorry i was wrong'. I actually have a background in engineering, and specifically material science/manufacturing processes. So while you can go to town on forums reading about how stuff works, you are limited by your own understanding of why it works. Ive seen your posts before, all i am asking for is a little less bias and false assumptions on your end

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun Click here to enlarge
    How so? You said they have the same internals, they dont.
    I said they share internals. As I just posted they share internals. There is a picture showing they use the exact same pistons.

    You said the bore and stroke were flipped and then you had the audacity to tell me to go research when you don't know W T F you are talking about?

    Seriously?

    You were wrong. You just admitted as much. Swallow your pride and move on. Man up. There's a reason you read the site and I own it / write for it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun Click here to enlarge
    you are limited by your own understanding of why it works
    Are you high? This is the difference between the S63 and N63: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...and-S63-motors

    Where's your article again?

    Someone sure is limited here but it isn't me.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun Click here to enlarge
    I actually have a background in engineering
    I hope you kept the receipt for that engineering education/background.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun Click here to enlarge
    Yeah I realized that thread was quite a bit off, but i did find the official info, while a lot of the internals are the same
    Read this again and again and again and again and again.

    You were off. They do share internals.

    LOL, telling others to research when you don't know your own stuff you are preaching.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I said they share internals. As I just posted they share internals. There is a picture showing they use the exact same pistons.

    You said the bore and stroke were flipped and then you had the audacity to tell me to go research when you don't know W T F you are talking about?

    Seriously?

    You were wrong. You just admitted as much. Swallow your pride and move on. Man up. There's a reason you read the site and I own it / write for it.



    Are you high? This is the difference between the S63 and N63: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...and-S63-motors

    Where's your article again?

    Someone sure is limited here but it isn't me.
    Hmm lets see.. i said "The motor runs at 18.9psi, which is a lot more than the n55's 9-11psi. So do you really think bmw is going to reuse all those internals for that much of a pressure increase?" clearing referring to ALL internals to which you responded "They do on the N63TU and S63TU so..." to which in the context is also referring to all internals. Now if you don't consider different cams, bearings, and oil pump the "same" internals then you need to do a little more research my friend. I admit I was wrong about the bore and stroke but I was right about the s63 having similar but different internals. You also failed to acknowledge the fact that you were incorrect about the n55 sharing the same internals with the s55. I get this is your forum and all and I go on here since there is valuable information to be had, but i have been seeing a recurring theme of a large bias on your end. This whole thread was made to announce the new m4 convertible to which you had absolutely no positive thing to say about it, yet you are running a bmw forum. Im not trying to continue arguing but this is a great forum and all I'm asking for is less bias on your end and a little more facts and less speculation. You're telling me to "man up" yet you won't even take your own advice. I have nothing against you man I honestly think you have a lot of good info, but when I'm reading through a lot of your posts there is always such a negative bias that is based off of speculation in a lot of cases.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun Click here to enlarge
    Hmm lets see.. i said "The motor runs at 18.9psi, which is a lot more than the n55's 9-11psi. So do you really think bmw is going to reuse all those internals for that much of a pressure increase?" clearing referring to ALL internals to which you responded "They do on the N63TU and S63TU so..." to which in the context is also referring to all internals. Now if you don't consider different cams, bearings, and oil pump the "same" internals then you need to do a little more research my friend. I admit I was wrong about the bore and stroke but I was right about the s63 having similar but different internals. You also failed to acknowledge the fact that you were incorrect about the n55 sharing the same internals with the s55. I get this is your forum and all and I go on here since there is valuable information to be had, but i have been seeing a recurring theme of a large bias on your end. This whole thread was made to announce the new m4 convertible to which you had absolutely no positive thing to say about it, yet you are running a bmw forum. Im not trying to continue arguing but this is a great forum and all I'm asking for is less bias on your end and a little more facts and less speculation. You're telling me to "man up" yet you won't even take your own advice. I have nothing against you man I honestly think you have a lot of good info, but when I'm reading through a lot of your posts there is always such a negative bias that is based off of speculation in a lot of cases.
    What I told you was that BMW shares the bore and stroke so they can share parts just like they do in the N63/S63. Once again you were wrong and you refused to admit it after your 'research' failed you. Good, glad you admit you were wrong now so you can run along as I don't have time for a BMW cost cutting tutoring session.

    You're right, I have nothing positive to say about a 4000+ pound M4 cab that barely shaves any weight off the E93. I have a big problem with BMW misleading us regarding the weight savings. That is not 'bias' at all it's a response to BMW's skewed marketing. What speculation is it based on? I'm basing everything I say on the facts as in this car is over 4000 pounds. Fact.

    If you want to do some more research feel free to read my articles about the motors and cars.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What I told you was that BMW shares the bore and stroke so they can share parts just like they do in the N63/S63. Once again you were wrong and you refused to admit it after your 'research' failed you. Good, glad you admit you were wrong now so you can run along as I don't have time for a BMW cost cutting tutoring session.

    You're right, I have nothing positive to say about a 4000+ pound M4 cab that barely shaves any weight off the E93. I have a big problem with BMW misleading us regarding the weight savings. That is not 'bias' at all it's a response to BMW's skewed marketing. What speculation is it based on? I'm basing everything I say on the facts as in this car is over 4000 pounds. Fact.

    If you want to do some more research feel free to read my articles about the motors and cars.
    You still failed to acknowledge you were wrong to assume the same parts on internals between the s55/n55, you didn't even acknowledge that in your previous comment again. If you were basing everything you say on facts then what facts do you have that the n55 and s55 share the same pistons, rods, crank, torque drop off? I get this is your forum but if you were a little more factual and less speculative a lot more people would use it. This seems more like a personal blog of what you thought about news on bmws. You can try to twist your words all you want to say that they "share" internals but when it comes down to it you're wrong about the s63 and n63 having the same internals and even more so the n55 and s55 having the same internals but i guess you won't admit that on your own forum.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun Click here to enlarge
    You still failed to acknowledge you were wrong to assume the same parts on internals between the s55/n55, you didn't even acknowledge that in your previous comment again.
    Where did I say all the internals were different? I specifically referenced the precedent set by the N63/S63 sharing the bore and stroke so they could share the pistons and rods among other things like probably the crank. BMW does that to cut cost.

    I didn't say this isn't an M motor. Where did I? If anything if you read my original article on the S55B30 I stated that with the changes like the S63 it is a true M motor. That said, BMW is sharing parts to keep costs down.

    I really don't get what you aren't understanding. I don't see what speculation is being made and what facts are being omitted. The only person to get any facts wrong in this thread thus far is you.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun Click here to enlarge
    You can try to twist your words all you want to say that they "share" internals but when it comes down to it you're wrong about the s63 and n63 having the same internals and even more so the n55 and s55 having the same internals
    Right:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    BMW's official stance seems to be that they are the same which is not good news (shared pistons, rods, torque drop off toward redline, high piston speeds, etc.).
    Where does it say they share all internals? Does it say pistons and rods? Yep, like the S63TU shares pistons:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    Something interesting to note is that the top of the piston states N63/S63tu. The N63tu and S63tu both share the same compression ratio and with the markings on the piston it sure seems safe to come to the conclusion that the S63tu and N63tu pistons are the exact same thing to save BMW money
    Click here to enlarge

    WRONG:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun
    Actually wrong again they dont, the bore and stroke are flipped so the pistons MUST be different and either the connecting rods or crank are too, the torque drop off is different too so please do a little research before assuming they just reuse parts.
    I highlighted WHAT YOU GOT WRONG since it doesn't seem to be clicking. Does it need to be written in a different language? Different color?

  12. #37
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    Why would I want to read something from someone when I have to sort through whats bs and speculation and whats facts. Bmw has been adding weight on every new m3/m4 except the f80/82. So instead of acknowledging the fact that they shaved weight and did something positive, you chose to only talk down to it which is bias, i personally experience enough bias with the media and what not and would appreciate less or no bias when I'm reading about cars.

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    How do you know they have the same pistons between the s55 and n55??? You can say that about he s63/n63 cause they have the same block, the n55/s55 have completely different blocks with the same dimensions. Anyone with a basic material understand would know that the same material piston wears differently on different metals, iron on the n55 and twin wire arc spray on the s55 so please tell me where you read they have the same pistons? other than magically deducing it from the dimensions.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun Click here to enlarge
    Why would I want to read something from someone when I have to sort through whats bs and speculation and whats facts. Bmw has been adding weight on every new m3/m4 except the f80/82. So instead of acknowledging the fact that they shaved weight and did something positive, you chose to only talk down to it which is bias, i personally experience enough bias with the media and what not and would appreciate less or no bias when I'm reading about cars.
    Excuse me, do you have anything specific regarding what I write that is supposedly BS? Because last I checked the OP contains a press release from BMW themselves. Is that the speculation you are referring to?

    I'm not acknowledging the fact they shaved weight? Um:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    It is true that the new 2015 F84 M4 convertible is lighter than the E93 M3 it replaces. It is also true that the difference in weight is less than 100 pounds. At 4055 pounds the car is 90 pounds lighter than the E93 M3.
    Is plain English some kind of problem?

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun Click here to enlarge
    How do you know they have the same pistons between the s55 and n55??? You can say that about he s63/n63 cause they have the same block, the n55/s55 have completely different blocks with the same dimensions. Anyone with a basic material understand would know that the same material piston wears differently on different metals, iron on the n55 and twin wire arc spray on the s55 so please tell me where you read they have the same pistons? other than magically deducing it from the dimensions.
    I said based on precedent. I didn't say it was for sure I said BMW has kept the bore and stroke the same before in order to share parts as that is what they are doing now.

    They said they intend to do this themselves: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...-in-production

    Maybe you need to do some more of that research?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I said based on precedent. I didn't say it was for sure I said BMW has kept the bore and stroke the same before in order to share parts as that is what they are doing now.

    They said they intend to do this themselves: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...-in-production

    Maybe you need to do some more of that research?
    Finally, we have it, based off of PRECEDENT. Next time state that before you speculate. I am saying they won't have the same pistons based off of materials and manufacturing engineering. You tell me which is more accurate.

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun Click here to enlarge
    Finally, we have it, based off of PRECEDENT. Next time state that before you speculate. I am saying they won't have the same pistons based off of materials and manufacturing engineering. You tell me which is more accurate.
    I said if the bore x stroke is the same:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    This may be a mistake or the previous reports of the S55 and N55 not sharing the same undersquare design are wrong. BMW's official stance seems to be that they are the same which is not good news (shared pistons, rods, torque drop off toward redline, high piston speeds, etc.).
    The precedent is that they share pistons on the new turbo S motors when they share the bore and stroke. I am basing this on the facts of the matter which you got wrong.

    Did the 'may' throw you off somehow? Does that not imply speculation? You are not intelligent enough to figure that out and need me to hold your hand?

    I am saying you don't know what you are talking about and considering what you have displayed so far you have very little knowledge on the subject. You can stop wasting my time now.

  18. #43
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    Just in case you need to do some more research, the N55 and the S55 both share a 10.2:1 compression ratio. So does that not mean the pistons could be the same? So the FACTS support my position don't they?

    F'ing keyboard experts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Just in case you need to do some more research, the N55 and the S55 both share a 10.2:1 compression ratio. So does that not mean the pistons could be the same? So the FACTS support my position don't they?

    F'ing keyboard experts.
    They can't use the same pistons cause its a different metal which again you didn't acknowledge and probably never will. Wait till they come out, until then do a little engineering research and learn about how they would HAVE to change the piston metal since it is in contact with a different metal. If they used the same piston to cut costs that would be extremely counter-intuitive since that would simply decay the piston which clearly you know nothing about. I actually have dedicated my life to internal combustion design not sitting on forums reading about what might be in a motor. If they used the same piston that would maybe last a few thousand miles IF that.

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun Click here to enlarge
    They can't use the same pistons cause its a different metal which again you didn't acknowledge and probably never will. Wait till they come out, until then do a little engineering research and learn about how they would HAVE to change the piston metal since it is in contact with a different metal.
    BMW has shared pistons before. That is all that is being implied. You did not know that which is why you got it wrong. Telling someone to do research when you yourself do not know what the hell you are talking about is absolutely hilarious.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun Click here to enlarge
    If they used the same piston to cut costs that would be extremely counter-intuitive
    Then why are they already doing it?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun Click here to enlarge
    I actually have dedicated my life to internal combustion design not sitting on forums reading about what might be in a motor.
    You have wasted your life then.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun Click here to enlarge
    If they used the same piston that would maybe last a few thousand miles IF that.
    Nobody knows what they are using at this point. Nobody has opened up the motor. BMW has not stated what they are using themselves. They may be or they may not be.

    If it is the same compression ratio and same bore IT COULD BE THE SAME PISTON. They could be using cast parts as they have previously. They could retain the stroke to keep the same crank.

    These are all valid points based on precedent and fact.

    Considering the enormity of what you have gotten wrong here I suggest you do more reading. I have at no point definitively stated it is the same thing as an N55 my S55 articles actually state that I am impressed with the changed namely to the block if you bothered to even read them.

    So, once again, stop wasting my time.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    BMW has shared pistons before. That is all that is being implied. You did not know that which is why you got it wrong. Telling someone to do research when you yourself do not know what the hell you are talking about is absolutely hilarious.



    Then why are they already doing it?



    You have wasted your life then.



    Nobody knows what they are using at this point. Nobody has opened up the motor. BMW has not stated what they are using themselves. They may be or they may not be.

    If it is the same compression ratio and same bore IT COULD BE THE SAME PISTON. They could be using cast parts as they have previously. They could retain the stroke to keep the same crank.

    These are all valid points based on precedent and fact.

    Considering the enormity of what you have gotten wrong here I suggest you do more reading. I have at no point definitively stated it is the same thing as an N55 my S55 articles actually state that I am impressed with the changed namely to the block if you bothered to even read them.

    So, once again, stop wasting my time.
    As i said before they shared pistons previously when they had the SAME block. Not sure if you have some memory issue or can't read or something but a different block and material, again calls for a different material in the piston, but if you can't comprehend that then you have some serious issues considering you're running a forum about cars/motors. So saying they used the same pistons before doesn't mean anything since the only time bmw EVER uses the similar internals is when the block is the same which it is not so you can keep telling me to stop wasting my time or you can admit you were being ignorant when you made that assumption and stop wasting my time and other peoples time with you're extremely in accurate assumptions that lack any basis other than "precedent"

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sahyoun Click here to enlarge
    As i said before they shared pistons previously when they had the SAME block. Not sure if you have some memory issue or can't read or something but a different block and material, again calls for a different material in the piston, but if you can't comprehend that then you have some serious issues considering you're running a forum about cars/motors. So saying they used the same pistons before doesn't mean anything since the only time bmw EVER uses the similar internals is when the block is the same which it is not so you can keep telling me to stop wasting my time or you can admit you were being ignorant when you made that assumption and stop wasting my time and other peoples time with you're extremely in accurate assumptions that lack any basis other than "precedent"
    Yeah I can't comprehend it:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    The crank is forged. The cylinders are lined.

    Check this link out: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...l-transmission

    I don't know about the pistons or rods. I think the rods are forged and the pistons are likely cast with a coating of some sort.

    This is the piston. I can't tell if it's forged or not but some guys here can:

    Click here to enlarge
    If you are such an expert can't they be the same pistons but with a coating as in the E92 M3? Do you know for sure what they are?

    So you're telling me I should ignore BMW precedent and not point out they have shared pistons and rods? You were the only one to state something definitively as fact and get it wrong here so why are you continuing? Do you like seeing yourself type? Do you have a point to make?

    I directly state I don't know about the pistons or rods but since you continue to ignore plain English I don't know what else to do you for you at this point.

  23. #48
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    Why don't you tell us all why this cylinder coating means pistons can't be re-used and try to use something other than 'I worked blah blah blah blah blah years doing blah blah blah'

    And instead of liners, the cylinder bores feature a twin-wire arc-sprayed coating, which results in a significant reduction in engine weight.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by folgrz Click here to enlarge
    Yawn*

    M4 sucks. Disgrace they came out with this.
    LOL @ disgrace.

    You haven't even driven one.

    What have you created that is such a "disgrace"?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You can just take the top off on the standard C7. Boom, done. Lightweight, better performer, more fun.
    You will also be 100% more attractive....to your sister.

    Seriously - it will be faster, and I do like the new styling.

    More fun? Eh - that is an opinion. I like to shift for one thing...at my local track, Vettes drive around the whole thing in 4th gear. Amazing machines; but that is not much fun to me.

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