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  1. #26
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    Plane is the bottom of the ocean, the end. People love making conspiracies out of everything.

  2. #27
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    We all certainly hope so but it does make you consider the possibilities. It also makes me think that now more people will try to jack a huge jetliner now that it has become apparent tracking is not what we were made to believe. Over the ocean without a transponder you seem to become invisible if you disable all the systems and avoid military radar.

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    I was just thinking of something. Since we know the plane kept flying for a while almost to the point of exhausting its fuel apparently why wouldn't a water landing be a possibility? When the fuel tanks are empty that makes the plane more buoyant from what I understand.

    It's just a random theory and I have no idea if it's even possible but I mean a water landing would be smart if it's an act of piracy as you could put the plane in a location nobody would ever think of meaning you don't need a 777 capable airstrip.

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    Just something else to think about:

    A Boeing 777 is designed to be capable of ditching safely on the water and stay afloat. That is why there are 8 slide rafts in the aircraft capable of accommodating more than 300 passengers in the event of a safe ditching on the sea.

    How long will the B777 stay afloat on the water will depends on many factors. Firstly, there must not be substantial damage on the aircraft body to cause massive leaks. Secondly, the ditching must be properly executed (it is possible to do so) and the impact with the water surface must be reduced sufficiently to that of a normal landing profile. The sea condition must also be reasonably smooth.

    According to Boeing, if the Boeing 777 ditching is properly handled with an optimum center of gravity and normal gross weight, the airplane should come to a rest slightly nose high on the water. The forward doors should be about four and a half feet and the aft doors be about two and a half feet above the water. At high gross weight, the aft doors may be less that two feet.

    After ditching, an undamaged Boeing777 will stay afloat for a fairly long time - something like a drifting boat on the sea.

  5. #30
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    Maybe the pilot practiced water landings on the flight simulator?


  6. #31
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    You are not water landing it if you are stealing it... cause you can't start the $#@! again off the ocean... also the landing area would have to have very smooth water.... very very risky
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Group.america Click here to enlarge
    You are not water landing it if you are stealing it... cause you can't start the $#@! again off the ocean... also the landing area would have to have very smooth water.... very very risky
    Well stealing a jet is risky to begin with so why not just throw caution to the wind?

    I know you can't start it again off the ocean but there has to be some way to get in onto land I assume and repair it? Can it be broken into pieces? Towed with a boat? Maybe? I know absolutely nothing about jet salvage operations.

    I don't know. If it was me and my goal was to steal the jet I'd take the path nobody would expect. A water landing is basically untraceable and there isn't any radar that will pick you up. So I'm not saying that is what happened but I'm saying it makes more sense to avoid radar than try to somehow fly over China or Asia expecting not to be undetected.

  8. #33
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    I'm really just kind of fascinated by this whole thing and am wondering if it's the most brilliant hijacking ever or just a suicide run. I want to know.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well stealing a jet is risky to begin with so why not just throw caution to the wind?

    I know you can't start it again off the ocean but there has to be some way to get in onto land I assume and repair it? Can it be broken into pieces? Towed with a boat? Maybe? I know absolutely nothing about jet salvage operations.

    I don't know. If it was me and my goal was to steal the jet I'd take the path nobody would expect. A water landing is basically untraceable and there isn't any radar that will pick you up. So I'm not saying that is what happened but I'm saying it makes more sense to avoid radar than try to somehow fly over China or Asia expecting not to be undetected.
    The problem with this is that the ELT would go off, which is essentially the emergency beacon. It goes off with any impact. Hell, I've had an ELT go off on me from a hard landing in a Cessna Click here to enlarge.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm really just kind of fascinated by this whole thing and am wondering if it's the most brilliant hijacking ever or just a suicide run. I want to know.
    This is on Flight Simulator X. Realism isn't the word... Every aspect of the plane is modeled down to flight dynamics, systems, weight etc.


  11. #36
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    If the plane is hijacked and does come anywhere near America it will be shot down long before it reaches our shores. I'm not convinced of anything yet but I'm thinking this $#@!er was hijacked , than it changed altitude enough to kill everyone, flew aimlessly than crashed ...
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  12. #37
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    Ok so the plane had enough fuel to make it to Pakistan and a few other Muslim countries where terrorists run amuck. And the two pilots were both Muslim, as were the two Iranians traveling under stolen passports whose tickets were purchased by an Iranian "businessman".
    Got it.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    The problem with this is that the ELT would go off, which is essentially the emergency beacon. It goes off with any impact. Hell, I've had an ELT go off on me from a hard landing in a Cessna Click here to enlarge.
    Can't this system be disabled?

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    If the plane is hijacked and does come anywhere near America it will be shot down long before it reaches our shores. I'm not convinced of anything yet but I'm thinking this $#@!er was hijacked , than it changed altitude enough to kill everyone, flew aimlessly than crashed ...
    Yeah I'm not too worried about it reaching American shores.

    If it crashed though there should be debris somewhere. Maybe he did a 'soft' landing in the ocean and everybody was asphyxiated and it just sank.

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Can't this system be disabled?
    Not from the cockpit. Not on circuit breakers either.

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    Not from the cockpit. Not on circuit breakers either.
    Interesting. Then it should have gone off if it did hit water right?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Interesting. Then it should have gone off if it did hit water right?
    Yes. I think it landed somewhere.

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    Yes. I think it landed somewhere.
    Well what other explanation is there?

    Obviously someone was very familiar with the systems. Could they have disabled the ELT? If it did land somewhere wouldn't it still be pinging the satellite?

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    Not from the cockpit. Not on circuit breakers either.
    Suddenly your avatar makes sense.

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well what other explanation is there?

    Obviously someone was very familiar with the systems. Could they have disabled the ELT? If it did land somewhere wouldn't it still be pinging the satellite?
    Well if there was a collision of some sort whether land or water the ELT had to go off. But the ELT doesn't work underwater so I suppose if it did hit the water hard/fast enough it wouldn't have time to communicate. The other possible scenario is a sudden explosion of the aircraft, destroying the ELT, which I doubt happened. So it either landed or went underwater really fast where it couldn't communicate.

    ELT can't be disabled from the cockpit at all. The black box can't either.

    The pinging was coming from the engine computers so if the engines are off there should be no pings. I think there's a lot more to the story they aren't telling us.

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    Well if there was a collision of some sort whether land or water the ELT had to go off. But the ELT doesn't work underwater so I suppose if it did hit the water hard/fast enough it wouldn't have time to communicate. The other possible scenario is a sudden explosion of the aircraft, destroying the ELT, which I doubt happened. So it either landed or went underwater really fast where it couldn't communicate.

    ELT can't be disabled from the cockpit at all. The black box can't either.

    The pinging was coming from the engine computers so if the engines are off there should be no pings. I think there's a lot more to the story they aren't telling us.
    Oh ok that makes sense about the pings as I wondering about that. Well thanks to the pings we know it ran for a long time after it disappeared. Secondly, if anyone does refuel this thing and fly it again assuming it landed the pings will start up again right? Or can that system be disabled as well?

    There's some big piece missing here. The way the systems were manually shut down, the odd climbing then going low presumably to go under radar screens, wtf? Would a government be involved with this? Does China just want to steal Boeing secrets to create a knock off? Shouldn't the US be big time concerned?

  22. #47
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    see again as a pilot I don't know if i buy that, study what?? He does the really thing on a daily basis, once he has the coordinates of what every location they chose he would loaded into the airplanes nav aids and thats it. What does he need to practice?? Turning to a heading?

  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Oh ok that makes sense about the pings as I wondering about that. Well thanks to the pings we know it ran for a long time after it disappeared. Secondly, if anyone does refuel this thing and fly it again assuming it landed the pings will start up again right? Or can that system be disabled as well?

    There's some big piece missing here. The way the systems were manually shut down, the odd climbing then going low presumably to go under radar screens, wtf? Would a government be involved with this? Does China just want to steal Boeing secrets to create a knock off? Shouldn't the US be big time concerned?
    The engine manufacturer is the one that can receive data from the engines through satellites. In this case I think it was Rolls Royce on the 777. This isn't something Boeing is involved with so there are no controls for it in the cockpit or circuit breakers. It's kind of 3rd party or aftermarket so to speak. I suppose if you had the plane on the ground and you knew what you were doing you might be able to disable that but I'm not sure. It's just used for maintenance so that's really like a last ditch "tracking" method, it goes off every hour.

    I know they were saying the data they got from radar might not have been accurate for the altitude changes, and it would make sense because if a plane actually went down at 40,000 feet per minute it's a goner. China is making aircraft for the future but I doubt they would do that when their own airlines have tons of Boeings.

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    [QUOTE=Sticky;550867]Maybe the pilot practiced water landings on the flight simulator?

    When the engines quit in aviation we have a set acrynm that we follow AFARS
    A= air speed, all air planes have a best glide speed, you set the plane to that speed because it will allow you to stay in the air the longest.
    F= Field you immediately identify an emergency landing spot and point the airplane to it.
    A=Attempts restart (self explanatory)
    R=Radio you would then call atc and let them know whats happening and also put your emergency code in your transponder.
    S= Shutdown . Certain procedures that you follow to prepare the plane for an emergency landing or ditching in water. Also if time permits you back all this up with the aircrafts emergency checklist.

    To any good pilot this is all second nature, the second that engine quits these actions should start

  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    The engine manufacturer is the one that can receive data from the engines through satellites. In this case I think it was Rolls Royce on the 777. This isn't something Boeing is involved with so there are no controls for it in the cockpit or circuit breakers. It's kind of 3rd party or aftermarket so to speak. I suppose if you had the plane on the ground and you knew what you were doing you might be able to disable that but I'm not sure. It's just used for maintenance so that's really like a last ditch "tracking" method, it goes off every hour.

    I know they were saying the data they got from radar might not have been accurate for the altitude changes, and it would make sense because if a plane actually went down at 40,000 feet per minute it's a goner. China is making aircraft for the future but I doubt they would do that when their own airlines have tons of Boeings.
    From what I read it was a Boeing satellite that was pinged.

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