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Thread: Nobody knows what the hell they are talking about regarding a 2015+ BMW F22 M2

              
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    Nobody knows what the hell they are talking about regarding a 2015+ BMW F22 M2

    Let's get something clear, people are guessing regarding an upcoming F22 M2. A rendering is making its way around the web recently (that BimmerBoost posted in November of last year) and discussion is raging regarding a BMW M2 model. BimmerBoost speculated last year on the engine such a model should have if BMW ever chooses to produce it. As of right now, M2 discussion is purely speculation as BMW has not even confirmed if they will make such a model.

    Click here to enlarge

    That said, BMW being the money grubbing company that no longer cares about protecting the M badge it has become means chances are a 2015+ M2 model will come. Car and Driver in their April 2014 issue claims the M2 is coming as a 2017 model. That seems a bit late and Car and Driver just seems to be guessing.

    Here is what they had to say, "When it arrives in a couple of years, the M2 will surely be powered by BMW's potent S55 3.0 liter six. Armed with twin turbos blowing through a Valvetronic variable-intake-lift system, this engine should deliver more than 400 horsepower and rev to 7600 rpm. Transmission choices will parallel the M3/M4 options - either a six speed manual or seven-speed dual clutch auto.

    Expect a carbon fiber roof and various structural reinforcements made of the woven black stuff. To hold the M2's curb weight to 3300 or so pounds, the suspension will mostly be aluminum, the oil sump will be a magnesium casting, and the brake rotors will be made of carbon-ceramic material. Aluminum body panels are a distinct possibility."

    Now, that all sounds wonderful. The problem is Car and Driver is just guessing and has absolutely zero official support for their statements. That said, a 3300 pound curb weight would be lower than the M235i although not much lower than the M3/M4. With the same motor, same transmission, a lower price, and a curb weight maybe 100 pounds lighter the M3/M4 suddenly become redundant.

    Another theory that is circulating is that 'supposedly' someone at BMW says the M2 is coming and will have the N55 inline-6 turbo motor that the F22 M235i already has. This would follow more closely with what BMW did with the 1M which is just take the E82 135i, change the ECU software, throw on M3 suspension bits, give it a body kit, and you are done. This is actually the most likely scenario because it would cost BMW the least amount of money and BMW already showed with the 1M they will will gladly market an M car that does not have an official M motor. It's a slap in the face to M enthusiasts but few real M enthusiasts seem to exist these days.

    What BMW should do out of the two choices above is what Car and Driver stated regarding using the S55B30 out of the upcoming F80/F82 M3/M4 but what they likely will do is the cheaper route that will not anger M3/M4 buyers. BMW historically protects M models based on their price of entry which means the M5/M6 will always be the top dogs at least as far as power and straightline performance is concerned with the M3/M4 following then the M2, 1M, etc.

    Nobody knows what will happen, they are just guessing. If BimmerBoost had its way a lightweight 3100 pound M2 would be produced with an S20 four-cylinder (M engine based on the N20) in order to bring the F22 2-Series weight distribution back to 50/50 and offer the car as a modern homage to the E30 M3. BMW is moving away from its history and traditional M ideals so it would be nice to see them honor their past M models with a modern interpretation as a tribute to enthusiasts and to show they still care. That said, BMW does not care so this will not happen.

    For now, everything is speculation. So, feel free to speculate away as well.

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    This would be a bad move for BMW IMHO, this would eat into the m3/4 sales.

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    If BimmerBoost had its way a lightweight 3100 pound M2 would be produced with an S20 four-cylinder (M engine based on the N20) in order to bring the F22 2-Series weight distribution back to 50/50 and offer the car as a modern homage to the E30 M3.
    This is exactly what I had in mind in the other thread when I stated that a [N/S]55 motor in an M2 is a fail. 330-340hp from an S20 and 3100lbs or less (use more CF) and you've got a unique product in the family that won't disrupt M3/4 sales, and give a proper homage to the E30 M.

    Shame it won't happen though.


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
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    This is exactly what I had in mind in the other thread when I stated that a [N/S]55 motor in an M2 is a fail. 330-340hp from an S20 and 3100lbs or less (use more CF) and you've got a unique product in the family that won't disrupt M3/4 sales, and give a proper homage to the E30 M.

    Shame it won't happen though.
    I agree this way the M3/M4 won't be eaten into and BMW would enter the four-cylinder war between AMG and VW/Audi. I would think BMW still has some pride left and would like to show it is the best at engine building rather than inflating sales figures.

    With the M235i curb weight already at 3400 pounds and the weight distribution at 53/47 a four cylinder actually makes a lot of sense. We can't base an M car on raw power output although BMW has turned them into dragsters now.

    The icing on the cake would be how parallels could be drawn to the E30 M3 which also would appease some of the hate from M purists and enthusiasts. It would at least show to me BMW still cares. It's an even more brilliant marketing move if you ask me.

    Why isn't there someone at BMW saying this same thing?

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    Even if they went with a 4banger I still feel like it would have an impact on the m3/4 sales... at least from the enthusiast market. One of the appeals of the m3 has been a track inspired car that is equally capable on the road. If I were in the market for a new bmw that would see track use I would go m2 all day. Its lighter rear wheel drive (hopefully) and when you add turbos to the equation the HP gap that would make the m3/4 "better" can be closed with a tune. Just imagine a fbo m2 pushing about 400+ HP, with the right driver that would destroy the m3/4 on any given track.

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    Whatever they do, I'm sure it will sell, I mean look at the current value of the 1M. You could literally build two 135i's with the body kit, ,superior suspension and all for the same price as a used 1M.

    Now, about this, "what //M is" and "historical M". Lets go back a bit. There were really only 2 generations, and maybe 3 or 4 //M cars that seem to truly stack up to the "//M" way. The e30 M3, e36 M3, and e39 M5. Is it really just to say //M is what it is based on 3 models of cars they built 30 years ago? For me, no, it's not, and to me //M means enhanced performance from base BMW models, how ever little or many changes it takes to do it.

    Having said that, it would be nice to see //M stay a little bit more exclusive in the BMW lineup and BMW come up with some other badge for the lighter modified performance enhanced cars, like the 1M.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
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    Even if they went with a 4banger I still feel like it would have an impact on the m3/4 sales... at least from the enthusiast market. One of the appeals of the m3 has been a track inspired car that is equally capable on the road. If I were in the market for a new bmw that would see track use I would go m2 all day. Its lighter rear wheel drive (hopefully) and when you add turbos to the equation the HP gap that would make the m3/4 "better" can be closed with a tune. Just imagine a fbo m2 pushing about 400+ HP, with the right driver that would destroy the m3/4 on any given track.
    IMHO The only thing that would dictate any significant effect an M2 would have on M4 sales is price point.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
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    IMHO The only thing that would dictate any significant effect an M2 would have on M4 sales is price point.
    I think its safe to say the m2 even with comperable options will come in significantly cheaper than the 3/4
    E46 M3 Carbon Black on Cinn: bc racing coilovers; euro headers; tuned by brenton brown; afe filter; rogue el diablo muffler; mod bargains csl cf trunk; other cf csl bits and pieces...and a few other things

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
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    Whatever they do, I'm sure it will sell, I mean look at the current value of the 1M. You could literally build two 135i's with the body kit, ,superior suspension and all for the same price as a used 1M.

    Now, about this, "what //M is" and "historical M". Lets go back a bit. There were really only 2 generations, and maybe 3 or 4 //M cars that seem to truly stack up to the "//M" way. The e30 M3, e36 M3, and e39 M5. Is it really just to say //M is what it is based on 3 models of cars they built 30 years ago? For me, no, it's not, and to me //M means enhanced performance from base BMW models, how ever little or many changes it takes to do it.

    Having said that, it would be nice to see //M stay a little bit more exclusive in the BMW lineup and BMW come up with some other badge for the lighter modified performance enhanced cars, like the 1M.
    e39 m5?!? how is that car more "M" than the e46 m3, e60 m5, or the e20something m5
    E46 M3 Carbon Black on Cinn: bc racing coilovers; euro headers; tuned by brenton brown; afe filter; rogue el diablo muffler; mod bargains csl cf trunk; other cf csl bits and pieces...and a few other things

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
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    Whatever they do, I'm sure it will sell, I mean look at the current value of the 1M. You could literally build two 135i's with the body kit, ,superior suspension and all for the same price as a used 1M.

    Now, about this, "what //M is" and "historical M". Lets go back a bit. There were really only 2 generations, and maybe 3 or 4 //M cars that seem to truly stack up to the "//M" way. The e30 M3, e36 M3, and e39 M5. Is it really just to say //M is what it is based on 3 models of cars they built 30 years ago? For me, no, it's not, and to me //M means enhanced performance from base BMW models, how ever little or many changes it takes to do it.

    Having said that, it would be nice to see //M stay a little bit more exclusive in the BMW lineup and BMW come up with some other badge for the lighter modified performance enhanced cars, like the 1M.
    You're wrong. I don't know why the E39 M5 would be considered the cutoff. It's the E92 / E60 and not E36 / E39.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
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    e39 m5?!? how is that car more "M" than the e46 m3, e60 m5, or the e20something m5
    The e46 and e60 are when the cars starting getting bigger, bulkier, and more "luxury performance". I mean, a viewpoint of //M is obviously all a matter of opinion, but I think it's pretty obvious BMW decided they were going to change face a bit heading into the 21st century.

    I think the basis of an //M car in the lineup to buy off the showroom floor is great, however, there's only what? 1 class of racing that would actually mean racing a car similar to its stock production form? Not every //M car in the lineup will or has been used in professional racing in mostly stock form, so my point is, where to some believe it is their business to determine what makes a car an //M car? As of right now, under those standards, only the e92 M3 would be an //M car, as it's the only one used in GT4 class racing which is mostly stock form type racing.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
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    e39 m5?!? how is that car more "M" than the e46 m3, e60 m5, or the e20something m5
    He's wrong.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    He's wrong.
    1) It's an opinion, there is no right or wrong.

    2) Yeah, the e46 started the modern trend of //M, SMG, luxury interior, increased curb weight, it started the new era for BMW, that's not just my opinion.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
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    The e46 and e60 are when the cars starting getting bigger, bulkier, and more "luxury performance". I mean, a viewpoint of //M is obviously all a matter of opinion, but I think it's pretty obvious BMW decided they were going to change face a bit heading into the 21st century.

    I think the basis of an //M car in the lineup to buy off the showroom floor is great, however, there's only what? 1 class of racing that would actually mean racing a car similar to its stock production form? Not every //M car in the lineup will or has been used in professional racing in mostly stock form, so my point is, where to some believe it is their business to determine what makes a car an //M car? As of right now, under those standards, only the e92 M3 would be an //M car, as it's the only one used in GT4 class racing which is mostly stock form type racing.
    I agree with everything your saying, but I don't see how the e39 m5 isn't in the same category of "M" as the e46 m3 and so on... Im not trying to sound like a fan boy but IMO the e46 m3 is more"M" than the e39 I mean it came with the csl, zcp and gtr variants where as the e39 comes in heavy and heavier
    E46 M3 Carbon Black on Cinn: bc racing coilovers; euro headers; tuned by brenton brown; afe filter; rogue el diablo muffler; mod bargains csl cf trunk; other cf csl bits and pieces...and a few other things

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
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    e39 m5?!? how is that car more "M" than the e46 m3, e60 m5, or the e20something m5
    Seriously? You think this Click here to enlarge

    Is less //M than this?

    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
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    I agree with everything your saying, but I don't see how the e39 m5 isn't in the same category of "M" as the e46 m3 and so on... Im not trying to sound like a fan boy but IMO the e46 m3 is more"M" than the e39 I mean it came with the csl, zcp and gtr variants where as the e39 comes in heavy and heavier
    I'm not, I'm saying that's where the line is basically. You have the e30, e36, then you get into e39 and e46 where IMO is where the major change started. You can put the line where you want, but I'm just saying the line was made before e9x/e60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
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    I think the s85 in the e60 puts them on equal levels of "M"


    on a side note I literally LOL'd that we are debating on which cars are more "M" than others... I mean only real enthusiast would have a debate this stupid lol Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
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    I'm not, I'm saying that's where the line is basically. You have the e30, e36, then you get into e39 and e46 where IMO is where the major change started. You can put the line where you want, but I'm just saying the line was made before e9x/e60
    I think the line is somewhere between the e36 and e46 m3.
    E46 M3 Carbon Black on Cinn: bc racing coilovers; euro headers; tuned by brenton brown; afe filter; rogue el diablo muffler; mod bargains csl cf trunk; other cf csl bits and pieces...and a few other things

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    He's wrong.
    I see where hes coming from and I agree to a point but the e39 m5 isnt more m than the e46 m3...
    E46 M3 Carbon Black on Cinn: bc racing coilovers; euro headers; tuned by brenton brown; afe filter; rogue el diablo muffler; mod bargains csl cf trunk; other cf csl bits and pieces...and a few other things

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
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    1) It's an opinion, there is no right or wrong.

    2) Yeah, the e46 started the modern trend of //M, SMG, luxury interior, increased curb weight, it started the new era for BMW, that's not just my opinion.
    An opinion can be wrong. This is a subjective topic though but most people would agree the traditional M died out once the naturally aspirated M died out. The E60 M5 is not the tank the F10 M5 is. The S65 V8 also is lighter than the S54. So, I disagree with you that the E39 and E36 are the defining period especially as the E46 M3 is arguably the best representation of the traditional M formula. The CSL in particular which may be the greatest M ever made.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
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    I see where hes coming from and I agree to a point but the e39 m5 isnt more m than the e46 m3...
    I agree with you.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
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    This is as M as it gets:

    Click here to enlarge

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    ^ I change my mind the line is drawn and it has 10 cylinders /thread
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    If if if.... 1M is a joke, most were sold at or near M3 prices and many weren't driven.. rather were ncollected for on sale... bad investment strategy IMHO

    E39 M5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1M

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    S20, yes!

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