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  1. #76
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Amerkin Click here to enlarge
    All factors very true, but torque over a wider rpm range with gearing to match and similar horsepower to a car with a narrow power band and enough gearing to try and compensate, is going to lose any race but a high speed one (straight line or oval type, and only if the later has more hp to catch up in time). Of course, there's always exceptions and race course configurations to consider.
    You have this completely backwards; a flat and long torque curve allows you to take advantage of GEARING, which is how the "torque" actually gets to the ground. If you have a car with a 25% higher redline than another car you can effectively make 25% more torque to the ground and still shift at the same wheel speed. In other words, the high RPM allows you to take advantage of gearing - which raises your torque to the wheels.

    Besides that - as Sticky said, torque means nothing. It is a component of power, however you can have torque without power (e.g. using a 3 foot wrench on a stuck bolt; I weigh 200 lbs, stand on the end - I just applied 600 ft-lbs of torque, but made no power) - it's not until you spin the bolt (e.g RPM) when power is made. Torque made at high RPM is what makes for a proper race car. I cannot think of anyone that would disagree with this.

    To sum up and simplify without gearing - it's the TOTAL AREA underneath the power curve divided by weight that makes car A faster than car B with smaller area.

    Diesels make a ton of torque, but they cannot spin that torque at high RPM, so they are slow. You had it completely backwards.


    Edit: I am not sure if you are backwards, because I am not clear which car you are saying would win... If it's the car with the wide power band and same torque as the short banded car, I agree. Click here to enlarge

  2. #77
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Amerkin Click here to enlarge
    So let me guess, are you one who believes the greater hp per liter is the answer to speed?
    And to answer your question, no - I don't think a car that has a higher HP/Liter means it's going to be faster. However, given 2 engines of equal capacity (Same displacement) - the engine having a higher specific output is going to move the car more effectively than an engine with less - all thing equal. I am not sure what you are getting at here, but again - the only thing that matters is total area underneath the power curve that is usable. That's it. Period. (assuming it's geared appropriately). The one with more area wins (assuming same weights).

  3. #78
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    We agree, as I said "torque over a wider rpm range with gearing to match" or i.e. gearing to take advantage of the torque available. The time issue I spoke of has to do with rpm, in that the more torque produced earlier (low rpm) will take less time to produce the work (move the vehicle). If it can be produced over a wider range of rpm, in essence for a longer time (higher rpm) more horsepower will be made. (Basically the same as your argument.) So the car with the ability to produce torque to the ground earlier and maintain it longer will win the race. I maintain the car that has to produce more gear multiplication through the transmission is at a disadvantage to the car with the broader engine power band, because of lost time for shifting, efficiency issues, etc.

  4. #79
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    Who gives a flying F*&^ about how torque over rpm ranges and area under the curve; I wanna see the German Boost Main Event of the Evening: Stick vs M Feeva. Actually though, could you two please meet up.

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