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  1. #126
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    This is what I was referring to. PM'd you Pats.
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  2. #127
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    @135pats - now I see why you're asking the timeline of my setup. It's basically setup #2 from Terry's list. I forgot to mention, I also did get a new battery prior to the LPFP. And prior to that, the drive shaft seal was leaking from the diff. So I had issue after issue but the hell with it, I got it all fixed. $$

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blisstik Click here to enlarge
    @135pats - now I see why you're asking the timeline of my setup. It's basically setup #2 from Terry's list. I forgot to mention, I also did get a new battery prior to the LPFP. And prior to that, the drive shaft seal was leaking from the diff. So I had issue after issue but the hell with it, I got it all fixed. $$
    OK this is very interesting, and very useful information. Thank you.

    So it sounds like amps drawn and LPFP PSI are not directly related. If your car has been pushing mid 80s PSI at idle and driving around for months on the stock 20 amp, clearly the pumps are not drawing too many amps.

    I think I may have had a flaw in logic- I had assumed that since the FFTEC pump was flowing 80s PSI at all times, and the fuse kept blowing, that the two must be related in a causal manner. So my concern was that if the car was providing say 85PSI LPFP as a base, it was blowing the fuse. It sounds like based on your experience, that is not the case and the two may be independent of each other.

    If that’s the case, I’ve spent 3 weeks, 3 tows, and about $2K tracking down a problem that could have been solved with a 25 amp fuse. FML.

    But I really appreciate your input here, think this may be near a resolution. If your car has held mid 80s PSI happily for months, I’m comfortable with that. I would rec you go up to 25 amps to be safe, but if it hasn’t popped by now, the fuse should be A OK.
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  4. #129
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    We were doing some testing last night on a car that also runs with pressures at about 86.

    We opened the tank to verify that the regulator was working properly. To do so, we applied 12V to the pump (stock LPFP and my inline kit) and monitored the return flows from the regulator and the driver's side venturi while monitoring LPFP pressures on the Cobb. both the venturi and the regulator return were functioning properly but the regulator was simply running at 86psi.

    We then cut apart and dis-assembled a stock regulator to see if we could get to the bottom of this. On the particular regulator I had...the diaphragm was rigid and brittle...don't know if that is common or not.

    In this picture the diaphragm is actually missing and in pieces after it's removal.

    Click here to enlarge

    I think in your case this may suggest that prior to WOT demand..your pressures are being regulated by the DME but after high demand situations, flow has been increased by the DME and the regulator is now functioning to maintain pressures.

    Just a theory based on what I've learned thus far. A volt meter and testing on your car would provide those answers.

  5. #130
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    Interesting. As always thank you for the testing and theorizing. The pressure regulator is built into the fuel filter unit, correct? If the above were true, would it cause too many amps to be pulled?

    It's odd though, since installing the new setup the car has requested more like 76PSI at idle, not 72PSI. Give it load and we know what happens, but just start the car and it's a bit higher than requested. I can try to get voltage readings, at the same time the part is pretty cheap and doesn't look bad to install.
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  6. #131
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    I honestly haven't verified what the stock pressure regulator is set at with a bench test and don't have one at this time. I think what we may do is hook a pump and pressure gauge up to a test car and perform the same test as I described above to verify. This will at least verify it on one car and will do more when I get the opportunity.

    Up until this point everybody has theorized that the stock regulator is 73psi...but if the DME is targeting 73 and regulating it with PWM but the regulator itself is actually 86...that would explain a lot as the number 86 has come up a few times.

    Yes, the pressure regulator is built in to the filter assembly.

    At idle you should see about 6.5-6.75v IIRC....I have a buddy that I may be able to get to help me for road testing and do some this week. If not I'll hook it up and tape a DVM to the dash...LOL

    It may be that your DME is sending the given PWM signal but since you are running two pumps, your flow efficiency is increased and thus you are seeing slightly higher values....not a big deal either way. Everybody else out there to my knowledge running my kits are doing so on stock fuses and I (knock on wood) have not heard of any blown fuses.

  7. #132
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    If that’s the case, I’ve spent 3 weeks, 3 tows, and about $2K tracking down a problem that could have been solved with a 25 amp fuse. FML.
    I still think the 25 amp fuse was the best solution. Steve's testing put the draw with the single 455 and series 255 just under 20 amps, so a series 455 was likely higher. And many things could cause a slightly higher draw and/or fuse to blow with that little overhead.

    25 amp and good to go. A bit more pressure doesn't sound very concerning since it seems a few cars experience the same "problem".

    I'm running a 25A because I didn't feel safe adding electrical load to a fuse designed for less, I didn't think much of it over a year ago.

  8. #133
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    I still think the 25 amp fuse was the best solution. Steve's testing put the draw with the single 455 and series 255 just under 20 amps, so a series 455 was likely higher. And many things could cause a slightly higher draw and/or fuse to blow with that little overhead.

    25 amp and good to go. A bit more pressure doesn't sound very concerning since it seems a few cars experience the same "problem".

    I'm running a 25A because I didn't feel safe adding electrical load to a fuse designed for less, I didn't think much of it over a year ago.
    Agreed 100%. I’m just frustrated that I allowed myself to create a causal link in my head that now appears to be simply false. I equated the unsual PSIs to the blown fuses, which seemed logical at the time, but was likely incorrect to the tune of a lot of time and money. Oh well, you live and you learn so it’s all good.

    If it wasn’t snowing today I’d go grab the FFTEC pump and shoot it off to Steve, I’m interested to see what it pulls in series with the stock pump. I was very impressed with how well the pump flowed, not so much with the price point or the overall design. It’s a very nice billet adaptor, but outside of that it’s just gates hose and brass fittings. For $600 I expected better.

    Anyways…when the snow gets out of here I’ll go ship the pump off to him, and he can conduct his testing to report back. If nothing else, hopefully this thread will be a warning to someone down the road to go up in fuse before diving into replacing your entire fuel system.
    E88 N54 w stuff
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  9. #134
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    I still think the 25 amp fuse was the best solution. Steve's testing put the draw with the single 455 and series 255 just under 20 amps, so a series 455 was likely higher. And many things could cause a slightly higher draw and/or fuse to blow with that little overhead.

    25 amp and good to go. A bit more pressure doesn't sound very concerning since it seems a few cars experience the same "problem".

    I'm running a 25A because I didn't feel safe adding electrical load to a fuse designed for less, I didn't think much of it over a year ago.
    To clarify....I never posted results for the 450 pump and a single 255 inline. I tested that but there is no point to it as the 450 outflows the 255 and it'd be pointless.

    So a ...

    Stock bucket and 255 inline..

    Flow = .9 gpm
    @ 17amps

    and a Walbro 450 in bucket with no venturi hooked up...

    Flow = 1.25 gpm
    @ 21 amps

    We don't know what a stock pump with a 450 inline flows yet or how many amps it pulls.

    Frankly I'm surprised we don't see more 450 pumps blowing fuses even as a stand alone but I think the DME does a better job of regulating power than I do Click here to enlarge

    Ultimately for 135Pats application, I really think a stock pump with a 450 inline is more than he needs.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Agreed 100%. Iím just frustrated that I allowed myself to create a causal link in my head that now appears to be simply false. I equated the unsual PSIs to the blown fuses, which seemed logical at the time, but was likely incorrect to the tune of a lot of time and money. Oh well, you live and you learn so itís all good.

    If it wasnít snowing today Iíd go grab the FFTEC pump and shoot it off to Steve, Iím interested to see what it pulls in series with the stock pump. I was very impressed with how well the pump flowed, not so much with the price point or the overall design. Itís a very nice billet adaptor, but outside of that itís just gates hose and brass fittings. For $600 I expected better.

    AnywaysÖwhen the snow gets out of here Iíll go ship the pump off to him, and he can conduct his testing to report back. If nothing else, hopefully this thread will be a warning to someone down the road to go up in fuse before diving into replacing your entire fuel system.
    You're right..if nothing else, a lot of good info will come of this. Click here to enlarge

    Will be doing some more testing tomorrow. Click here to enlarge

  10. #135
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    Well my car is down again as of just now. Started it and was greeted by a terrible start, followed by several codes. Restarted it and LPFP PSI was in the mid 40s before completely dying out in a few seconds. Inspected the fuse and it is fine, so this is a different problem. Oddly, the car isn't even throwing an SES or misfire code. Just the followingP29F1, 2A2D, and an injector shutdown code which makes sense. I feel like a fuel line on the low pressure side may have blown off or something? The car ran fine last night, nothing at all odd and zero codes. Ugh.
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  11. #136
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    Ran out of gas...

    Felt it appropriate to update this to avoid any confusion.Car is back up and running- it ran out of fuel because of INSTALLER (ME) ERROR. I mounted the pump on the "wrong" side, the fuel float got stuck, car ran out of gas. Just wanted to be perfectly clear that this was NOT a fuel pump problem. Don't want people getting confused as to the cause, I ran out of gas because i'm smart like that Steve had my shenanigans figured out in about 5 minutes, of course.
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  12. #137
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Felt it appropriate to update this to avoid any confusion.Car is back up and running- it ran out of fuel because of INSTALLER (ME) ERROR. I mounted the pump on the "wrong" side, the fuel float got stuck, car ran out of gas. Just wanted to be perfectly clear that this was NOT a fuel pump problem. Don't want people getting confused as to the cause, I ran out of gas because i'm smart like that Steve had my shenanigans figured out in about 5 minutes, of course.
    Too funny dude. When I installed my pump I took it for a test drive and the car died on me. I figured that I installed something wring or something popped off. I called the wife to come get me and drove her car back with tools.

    Once I got the pump out I didn't notice anything wrong but did notice that the tank was bone dry. Luckily I was about 100 yards away from a shell station.
    Click here to enlarge
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  13. #138
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
    Too funny dude. When I installed my pump I took it for a test drive and the car died on me. I figured that I installed something wring or something popped off. I called the wife to come get me and drove her car back with tools.

    Once I got the pump out I didn't notice anything wrong but did notice that the tank was bone dry. Luckily I was about 100 yards away from a shell station.
    Lol I hear that dude. Such a journey this has been to get some damn ethanol in the tank, meth was far less troublesome. A humbling experience for sure....
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  14. #139
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Lol I hear that dude. Such a journey this has been to get some damn ethanol in the tank, meth was far less troublesome. A humbling experience for sure....
    did you lpfp psi settle? i just innstaled an ftech pump and im getting 2aaf and 2aae fault codes.. pump taking to much current.
    and my lpfp PSI is about 82ish when i start it up and after awhile it pegs at 86 and stays there when idle.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by R3dnax Click here to enlarge
    did you lpfp psi settle? i just innstaled an ftech pump and im getting 2aaf and 2aae fault codes.. pump taking to much current.
    and my lpfp PSI is about 82ish when i start it up and after awhile it pegs at 86 and stays there when idle.
    Itís only been a few weeks since I swapped out pumps, but everything has been A OK in terms of the car working. But to answer your specific question, no, fuel pressure has not fallen nor has it adapted downwards. The car continues to demand and supply around 86PSI. Doesnít seem to harm anything and at this point I probably would have blown the fuse again where the problem still tied to that.

    So at this point Iím done worrying about this problem. The car supplies plenty of fuel on the low pressure side, Steveís kit is outstanding, so Iím moving on. I have no idea what caused this, but at this point no longer care to spend energy or time on it.

    PS 2AAF accompanies almost every inline fuel install, since they both tap the same power source the car is confused. That shadow code is not cause for concern.

    With the FFTEC pump I would strongly recommend having a spare fuse. Your call whether its 20 or 25 amps. But donít leave yourself stranded in case itís drawing more than 20 amps. Itís a 5 minute fix if you have a spare fuse.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    It’s only been a few weeks since I swapped out pumps, but everything has been A OK in terms of the car working. But to answer your specific question, no, fuel pressure has not fallen nor has it adapted downwards. The car continues to demand and supply around 86PSI. Doesn’t seem to harm anything and at this point I probably would have blown the fuse again where the problem still tied to that.

    So at this point I’m done worrying about this problem. The car supplies plenty of fuel on the low pressure side, Steve’s kit is outstanding, so I’m moving on. I have no idea what caused this, but at this point no longer care to spend energy or time on it.

    PS 2AAF accompanies almost every inline fuel install, since they both tap the same power source the car is confused. That shadow code is not cause for concern.

    With the FFTEC pump I would strongly recommend having a spare fuse. Your call whether its 20 or 25 amps. But don’t leave yourself stranded in case it’s drawing more than 20 amps. It’s a 5 minute fix if you have a spare fuse.
    hehe, yeah ill get myself a spare fuse! thanks for a qucik reply.. i would have bought steve's kit if i noticed it earlier.. :/ had already bought the fftech pump when i saw it! i guess i will try and have someone code out these faultcodes as they are $#@! annoying. or ill try and but a relee on the pump and make the relee start the fftec pump and have pull a new wire directly from the battery to the pump..

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    Hey 135pats, just wondering if you encountered any problems related to this since you posted this? Are you continuing to see the higher than normal psi readings?

    I just replaced my lpfp with a OE VDO siemens unit, which is suppose to be the OEM manufacturer, and i'm noticing my lpfp hovers in the mid 80 psi range at idle. But sometimes it'll hover around 72psi at idle... I'm not noticing any drivability issues either.

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    Hi Raigen18, i dont know about 135pats, but mine always hover in the 80's and supplies plenty off fuel when i step on the gas. Have not noticed any issues relating to this since install.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SteveAZ Click here to enlarge
    If the DME is sensing something is wrong...it'll go in to a bit of a safe mode of sorts. At which time it'll give the LPFP a 100% PWM signal the entire time.

    Take a log at idle, cruise, and WOT making sure to log the LPFP requested and LPFP actual pressures if you have the ability.
    What is the best way to figure out if this has happened?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Vertigo Click here to enlarge
    What is the best way to figure out if this has happened?
    What you quoted tells you how to figure out if this has happened.

    Take a log at idle, cruise, and WOT making sure to log the LPFP requested and LPFP actual pressures if you have the ability.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by raigen18 Click here to enlarge
    Hey 135pats, just wondering if you encountered any problems related to this since you posted this? Are you continuing to see the higher than normal psi readings?

    I just replaced my lpfp with a OE VDO siemens unit, which is suppose to be the OEM manufacturer, and i'm noticing my lpfp hovers in the mid 80 psi range at idle. But sometimes it'll hover around 72psi at idle... I'm not noticing any drivability issues either.
    Sorry for the belated response; i've been sick as a dog so just trying to focus on work and sleep.

    Sparknotes: No, I haven't encountered any issues since this was resolved awhile back. Root issue was the fuse, it was far simpler than I had originally thought. My fuel system is a lot different now (STG3 with return, port fuel, etc) but with the STG2 pump it always idled at more like 80PSI, rather than the targeted 72.5.

    I wouldn't worry about it if the car is otherwise happy and logs look good.
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