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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
    I haven't found E70 or even E85 to be unknockable (or at least if you assuming multi cylinder timing corrections represent knock).
    I haven't either personally, but in testing from MIT on direct injection, they couldn't get E70 to prodcuce predetonation. The DI was a huge advantage when compared to pfi... E30 did better than E85 in pfi iirc. They went really far to try, although it's a different platform they used, and they surely didn't go far enough, but that wasn't the point i guess lol. The testing was incredibly detailed, thermal imaging of combustion events etc. But that's neither here nor there, too much advance is too much advance, and one hot spot or other failure is all it takes.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boostaholic786 Click here to enlarge
    He and sammy DEF logged the car. Kept getting misfires in cylinders 1 and 4 if im not mistaken. changed LITERALLY EVERYTHING. His car ran PHENOMENAL when Terry was using the COBB to download the flash maps... After that, he jumped straight on Wedges flash. When he told me 16.5 degrees of timing I was really really iffy of loading it, but i did as well as our buddy...He confirmed with ken that turning misfire detection off would easily lead to catastrophic failure and he told him that it wouldnt and there were more failsafes in the DME... again not blaming anybody or any flash put on our cars...I guess you gotta pay to play and my buddy just wanted the damn car to stop misfiring and thought it was 50% safe...BUT he was wrong.. Click here to enlarge
    Makes me wonder if the flash went on clean, there is a far shot that the cobb left something behind after removal, that or it was not completely uninstalled before flashing to the Wedge flash. I have seen this with some of the VW tuners, I'd see a car come in for a flash, flash it and have it miss like crazy only to find out it had a tune already. Some of the parameters wont play well together if one tuner adjusted in one place that the other didn't. Long story short its possible, a long shot however. This is why a lot of tuning companies build in flash protection, to avoid this issue

  3. #53
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    i miss the cobb backends easiness lol
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  4. #54
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    Just as an aside... why (make sure you pronounce the "h" in your head when you read this).... again, wHy, would you put a 16.5* timing map on a car that's misfiring, when your goal is for the car to stop misfiring, then turn off misfire detection? That seems to make all sorts of not-any-sense.

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    I think your misunderstanding what all has happened on ALL 3 of our cars...But on THIS SPECIFIC CAR, it NEVER MISFIRED ON STOCK FLASH/JB4 G5 ISO running about an E50 mix since it was on stock flash which is about all the E85 it can take with the car being on the stock flash. By the way, the whole entire time all of this was going on,my buddy had FULL meth flow, using 100% methanol. Now on the BMS flash/JB4 G5 ISO, the car had OCCASIONAL misfires... Maybe 1 misfire out of 10 pulls from 50mph-150mph. And on the BMS flash he was running a E70 mix (which is usually what he ran full time) WITH 100% methanol. As soon as we would load Wedges flash with the 16.5 degree of timing, the car misfired LIKE CRAZY!!! so we sent logs to ken and ken said that he needs to take a degree of timing out (which would STILL be 15.5 degrees of timing) and said he would dis-able misfire detection and said there are plenty of other failsafes before the motor would go KABOOM!!! Again, not blaming anybody whatsoever, and we did this on our own free will. We knew what we were getting into...well atleast I did when he said it can easily bump up the timing to 15 or 16 degrees with no issues. I thought to myself, thats a F load of timing but lets see how it goes...These motors are not like any other motors I have ever seen...so I said lets do it. Just to recap:stock flash/JB4 G5 ISO= NO MISFIRESBMS flash/JB4 G5 ISO= maybe 1 out of 10 runs back to back, it would misfire.Wedge Performance Flash/JB4 G5 ISO= misfired like CRAZY and my buddy just finally got sick of it and got on the phone with ken and asked him what he should do? Ken specifically told him that he will take out a degree of timing, so that means (15.5 degrees of timing) and just disable misfire detection because the DME has other ways of detecting misfires or knock so he shouldnt be worried about anything by disabling them since the DME is 100,000 times smarter than a piggy back or what we think. My buddy did this at his own risk because he just wanted it to run like a bat out of hell, which it did 4 back to back runs.... then on the last one he felt a little stutter in his steering wheel, and then BOOM!!! haha he said atleast she gave me the best ride of her life right before she blew up Click here to enlarge I IMMEDIATELY flashed my car back to stock flash but STILL HAVING HUGE ISSUES but NOT GIVING UP!!and just to clarify: the COBB was ALWAYS installed and uninstalled properly and he had been running the BMS flash for a good amount of time with having those OCCASIONAL misfires...Maybe 10% of time he drove it... so wasnt really that worried about that. He did drive the car hard, but hey, why did we put all this money in these cars if we cant go WOT whenever we want with the right E85 mix (E70 or maybe a little more) and 100% METHANOL FULL FLOWING?...Infact, we went and put the newest software that BMW has from BMW online where you buy 24 hours of time to flash all your modules to the latest BMW software before he sent his bin file to ken. So the COBB can be ruled out of the picture.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boostaholic786 Click here to enlarge
    I think your misunderstanding what all has happened on ALL 3 of our cars...But on THIS SPECIFIC CAR, it NEVER MISFIRED ON STOCK FLASH/JB4 G5 ISO running about an E50 mix since it was on stock flash which is about all the E85 it can take with the car being on the stock flash. By the way, the whole entire time all of this was going on,my buddy had FULL meth flow, using 100% methanol. Now on the BMS flash/JB4 G5 ISO, the car had OCCASIONAL misfires... Maybe 1 misfire out of 10 pulls from 50mph-150mph. And on the BMS flash he was running a E70 mix (which is usually what he ran full time) WITH 100% methanol. As soon as we would load Wedges flash with the 16.5 degree of timing, the car misfired LIKE CRAZY!!! so we sent logs to ken and ken said that he needs to take a degree of timing out (which would STILL be 15.5 degrees of timing) and said he would dis-able misfire detection and said there are plenty of other failsafes before the motor would go KABOOM!!! Again, not blaming anybody whatsoever, and we did this on our own free will. We knew what we were getting into...well atleast I did when he said it can easily bump up the timing to 15 or 16 degrees with no issues. I thought to myself, thats a F load of timing but lets see how it goes...These motors are not like any other motors I have ever seen...so I said lets do it. Just to recap:stock flash/JB4 G5 ISO= NO MISFIRESBMS flash/JB4 G5 ISO= maybe 1 out of 10 runs back to back, it would misfire.Wedge Performance Flash/JB4 G5 ISO= misfired like CRAZY and my buddy just finally got sick of it and got on the phone with ken and asked him what he should do? Ken specifically told him that he will take out a degree of timing, so that means (15.5 degrees of timing) and just disable misfire detection because the DME has other ways of detecting misfires or knock so he shouldnt be worried about anything by disabling them since the DME is 100,000 times smarter than a piggy back or what we think. My buddy did this at his own risk because he just wanted it to run like a bat out of hell, which it did 4 back to back runs.... then on the last one he felt a little stutter in his steering wheel, and then BOOM!!! haha he said atleast she gave me the best ride of her life right before she blew up Click here to enlarge I IMMEDIATELY flashed my car back to stock flash but STILL HAVING HUGE ISSUES but NOT GIVING UP!!and just to clarify: the COBB was ALWAYS installed and uninstalled properly and he had been running the BMS flash for a good amount of time with having those OCCASIONAL misfires...Maybe 10% of time he drove it... so wasnt really that worried about that. He did drive the car hard, but hey, why did we put all this money in these cars if we cant go WOT whenever we want with the right E85 mix (E70 or maybe a little more) and 100% METHANOL FULL FLOWING?...Infact, we went and put the newest software that BMW has from BMW online where you buy 24 hours of time to flash all your modules to the latest BMW software before he sent his bin file to ken. So the COBB can be ruled out of the picture.
    ARGH MY EYES

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  7. #57
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    I'm not understanding something here, 1 out of 10 it would misfire so the solution is to push it harder?
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, VTT Inlets, UR Intake, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, DSS Axles, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

  8. #58
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    Yeah man, I understand what you're saying perfectly well, I just don't get why if you have an issue that seems to creep up with a more aggressive map, you'd disable misfire detection, AND stick with a super aggressive map. Ever. Look I get how issues like the dual mass flywheel induced knocking could be a nuisance, but I don't understand jumping to the conclusion that "it'll be fine" with a super aggressive tune, nevermind Ken removing a degree of timing. You're really putting your balls on a block when you assume you understand what's going on and remove a failsafe, i.e. you better know what you're doing. As it turns out, the car was knocking like crazy at 16.5* of timing, and evidently also knocking like crazy at 15.5* of timing too. I generally really like to remain center of the argument as things get debated but I'll solidfy my position right now; to remove misfire detection on a very aggressive e-tune (i.e. not a dyno with someone listening via tools) is downright irresponsible, if not outright foolish. I guess if cowboy tuner is your game...

    What's done is done and the engine will be fixed. These things don't pull timing or misfire for no reason. It might be a benign reason (that's the definitition of faith and hope) but the ECU isn't emotional; it sees something, and it stands to reason if you proceed to ignore it without fully understanding it, you can (and did) get bit in the ass. Hell, most of us DO listen to these things and still hope not to get bit in the ass playing around with 150+ more horsepower than it was designed for.
    Last edited by SCGT; 03-06-2014 at 07:54 PM.

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    Your completely right and thats why I didnt get him to send me a bin file with my vin number with it disabled. My buddy didnt know how serious it was and just thought by asking wedge if it was safe and him saying yea because there are "alternate" failsafes and were also going to take a degree of timing out so it should be just fine, my buddy just believed him since he is a very knowledgeable person that has proven himself time and time again.i.e...for instance the alpina tcu flash. That in itself is probably one of the most great thing that has happened for AT guys...Makes the car feel alot better and WAYYY faster shift speed, plus having a little throttle blip on downshifts. So obviously, he knows his $#@! and my buddy just put trust in him since he was so fed up with getting the car to run right after spending about $3k on all sensors, injectors, plugs, coils, having the mofset chips in the DME replaced, basically every possible thing down to even running all new vacuum lines, pressure sensors the list goes on and on and STILL having issues on anything besides the stock flash. Which the bms backend really only changes the fuel tables and nothing more by just a little bit compared to Wedges flash...After hearing everything out, Wedge took out a degree of timing so its "not as aggressive" and DISABLED MISFIRE DETECTION, sent my buddy the bin file, loaded it, and you get the picture. His car had everything you can possibly replace, replaced... lol and Im being serious! I agree with you about running that aggressive timing is NUTS! But these N54 motors are different animals as they can run 50% E85 or 70% E85...Our injectors are so damn big that it allows us to be able to do that. I dont know of any ofther cars that run a "mix" like we do on our n54 motors...Its usually either a pump gas/race gas car...or 100% E85/nothing else car. N54's like it mixed. Why? I dont know. So he was basically just putting trust in Wedge and also a couple other very knowledgeable people on this forum..But again, not blaming anybody in this....Just want to make it a known fact that 3 of us down here had major problems even though we METICULOUSLY..and I mean METICULOUSLY maintain our cars.

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boostaholic786 Click here to enlarge
    Your completely right and thats why I didnt get him to send me a bin file with my vin number with it disabled. My buddy didnt know how serious it was and just thought by asking wedge if it was safe and him saying yea because there are "alternate" failsafes and were also going to take a degree of timing out so it should be just fine, my buddy just believed him since he is a very knowledgeable person that has proven himself time and time again.i.e...for instance the alpina tcu flash. That in itself is probably one of the most great thing that has happened for AT guys...Makes the car feel alot better and WAYYY faster shift speed, plus having a little throttle blip on downshifts. So obviously, he knows his $#@! and my buddy just put trust in him since he was so fed up with getting the car to run right after spending about $3k on all sensors, injectors, plugs, coils, having the mofset chips in the DME replaced, basically every possible thing down to even running all new vacuum lines, pressure sensors the list goes on and on and STILL having issues on anything besides the stock flash. Which the bms backend really only changes the fuel tables and nothing more by just a little bit compared to Wedges flash...After hearing everything out, Wedge took out a degree of timing so its "not as aggressive" and DISABLED MISFIRE DETECTION, sent my buddy the bin file, loaded it, and you get the picture. His car had everything you can possibly replace, replaced... lol and Im being serious! I agree with you about running that aggressive timing is NUTS! But these N54 motors are different animals as they can run 50% E85 or 70% E85...Our injectors are so damn big that it allows us to be able to do that. I dont know of any ofther cars that run a "mix" like we do on our n54 motors...Its usually either a pump gas/race gas car...or 100% E85/nothing else car. N54's like it mixed. Why? I dont know. So he was basically just putting trust in Wedge and also a couple other very knowledgeable people on this forum..But again, not blaming anybody in this....Just want to make it a known fact that 3 of us down here had major problems even though we METICULOUSLY..and I mean METICULOUSLY maintain our cars.
    Are you allergic to paragraphs?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SCGT Click here to enlarge
    Just as an aside... why (make sure you pronounce the "h" in your head when you read this).... again, wHy, would you put a 16.5* timing map on a car that's misfiring, when your goal is for the car to stop misfiring, then turn off misfire detection? That seems to make all sorts of not-any-sense.
    I gotta dig up the logs, but IIRC it ran great with Just a JB4, but anytime it backend was flashed it would miss. and ran great Bone stock... ill look for logs after my midterms, i don't deal with the flashing, i just flashed it back to stock when i got it for diagnostics. and i send him to my coding guy to get the flashes uploaded. Misfires were Random AF with the flash.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Are you allergic to paragraphs?
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    sorry had to. lol
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  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammy_0559 Click here to enlarge
    I gotta dig up the logs, but IIRC it ran great with Just a JB4, but anytime it backend was flashed it would miss. and ran great Bone stock... ill look for logs after my midterms, i don't deal with the flashing, i just flashed it back to stock when i got it for diagnostics. and i send him to my coding guy to get the flashes uploaded. Misfires were Random AF with the flash.
    So, what you're saying is there was a problem with the car... possibly tune/flash related... so the answer was disable misfire detection and push it hard, rather than go back to Cobb backends (ATR is pretty nice actually). You didn't do it just mean that's the chain of events here.

    I'm not judging anything because I'd probably do the same thing, but that pretty much sums up the blown motor right there. It is what it is, these things happen. Nothing shameful here, a motor blew. If you've never blown a motor, you've probably never accomplished anything noteworthy with one either.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    So, what you're saying is there was a problem with the car... possibly tune/flash related... so the answer was disable misfire detection and push it hard, rather than go back to Cobb backends (ATR is pretty nice actually).

    I'm not judging anything because I'd probably do the same thing, but that pretty much sums up the blown motor right there. It is what it is, these things happen. Nothing shameful here, a motor blew. If you've never blown a motor, you've probably never accomplished anything noteworthy with one either.
    disabling misfire detection was not my idea. that was between the customer and wedge. they uploaded it.not me.

    -all i got out of my Diag was it misfired with a backend flash. had a bad coil ground at one point in time.. fix it and all was smooth sailing.


    Edit: it did temporarily fix the issues. so i kinda just agreed with it and said "well i guess so"
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammy_0559 Click here to enlarge
    disabling misfire detection was not my idea. that was between the customer and wedge. they uploaded it.not me.

    -all i got out of my Diag was it misfired with a backend flash. had a bad coil ground at one point in time.. fix it and all was smooth sailing.


    Edit: it did temporarily fix the issues. so i kinda just agreed with it and said "well i guess so"
    I wasn't trying to imply you just stating obvious about the situation. Customer made a call. Ended up bad, but it happens. Anyway, since this is just in Dallas, why not have ABR in Houston build a motor for it?

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    So at what powerlevels did this engine let go?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    I wasn't trying to imply you just stating obvious about the situation. Customer made a call. Ended up bad, but it happens. Anyway, since this is just in Dallas, why not have ABR in Houston build a motor for it?
    I understand, anyways I contacted Alex, I think the customer wants to sell the car. time frame doesn't fit his needs.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    So at what powerlevels did this engine let go?
    Not sure it's power levels. It's just something went wrong, failsafe was not there to save the motor popped a hole in the cyl.
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    It almost certainly was not an outright power induced failure, wasn’t like studs were letting go.

    Likely combination of too much heat, too much pressure, and the DME intentionally blindfolded. If misfire detection was on this probably would have been a simple misfire and cylinder shut down…Sigh.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammy_0559 Click here to enlarge
    I understand, anyways I contacted Alex, I think the customer wants to sell the car. time frame doesn't fit his needs.
    Price?

    It's never fun blowing a motor, some of us have been there (me) lol

    Why not just replace that piston and trade it in at carmax? or is the block rendered useless?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by continue5 Click here to enlarge
    Price?

    It's never fun blowing a motor, some of us have been there (me) lol

    Why not just replace that piston and trade it in at carmax? or is the block rendered useless?
    Bet you the walls got scored, and who knows how much material has worked it's way through the oiling system. Can one replace just the OE iron sleeve? I don’t know.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Bet you the walls got scored, and who knows how much material has worked it's way through the oiling system. Can one replace just the OE iron sleeve? I don’t know.
    Probably but at that point might as well upgrade everything in there..

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    I know people who have just replaced a broken piston with a new OEM one doing no other work and been fine. I know another guy who did that 3 times though as it kept breaking, lol. So it doesn't always work out.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I know people who have just replaced a broken piston with a new OEM one doing no other work and been fine. I know another guy who did that 3 times though as it kept breaking, lol. So it doesn't always work out.
    Would seem to me that the labor is what really kills you. So if you have the head off and pan dropped, all that good stuff…may as well at the very least replace all 6 conrods and pistons with OE. Or build it, assuming the budget of course.

    I just don’t see much of a value proposition in pulling apart the motor only to replace the cylinder that failed. Why not be safe ya know?
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  25. #75
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Would seem to me that the labor is what really kills you. So if you have the head off and pan dropped, all that good stuff…may as well at the very least replace all 6 conrods and pistons with OE. Or build it, assuming the budget of course.

    I just don’t see much of a value proposition in pulling apart the motor only to replace the cylinder that failed. Why not be safe ya know?
    In some counties the labor is 6x the cost of the piston, in other countries it's 1/6th the cost. So it will depend on the region. In the USA I'd suggest throwing in 6 forged pistons if taking it apart.
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