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  1. #26
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    How much power did he make on the dyno?
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  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BoostAddict Click here to enlarge
    Second wedge flash car to go. Also with cracked ringlands. Too much timing IMO. The car that blew here was also maintained very well and was fbo, meth, and e85. This is why I tell people to stick with the BMS flash. They are well tested, and good for most intent and purposes.
    Crazy. This absolutely should not be happening. There is no need or sense in pushing that much timing.

    I beat the piss out of my car and many on here kno it and most have seen plenty of vids of me pounding the car ruthlessly at around 700whp. I run 10-12* MAX even on full e85 or race fuel and meth
    Just not worth it. No real benefits at this point in pushing as hard as the op car and our buddy preezy car.
    But to each his own
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  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    How much power did he make on the dyno?
    None now.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammy_0559 Click here to enlarge
    his Rbs were shot.. confirmed. he was smoking due to that. this car still ran.. just smoked. he wanted a rebuild anyways.after the leak down test. this car just blew up.
    Was he “just” burning smoke through the turbos? Or was there an actual issue with boost? Shot seals are one thing, but if it wasn’t boosting properly that’s another story of course.
    E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Motiv Port Fuel/BMR 3.5" Exhaust/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/ST Coilovers/M3 FCA + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/AA Strutbrace/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
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  5. #30
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    More Sad days are coming for n54 motors with this type of tune. I blew my motor and it was well maintained just like op as well as fbo meth and e85 yet I blow my motor I just hope if you play you have the money to pay Click here to enlarge let us know what the plan is for this blown motor

  6. #31
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    "Shot" RBs wouldn't have caused a blown engine. The damaged ringlands suggest problem was likely too much timing.

    Neil

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Was he “just” burning smoke through the turbos? Or was there an actual issue with boost? Shot seals are one thing, but if it wasn’t boosting properly that’s another story of course.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MDORPHN Click here to enlarge
    "Shot" RBs wouldn't have caused a blown engine. The damaged ringlands suggest problem was likely too much timing.

    Neil
    we are talking about 2 completely different cars,

    boostaholic brought in another local car that is getting a rebuilt motor, that is not at my shop. (he had bad rbs with crazy axial shaft play, with unreasonable radial play compared to what I've seen) i know bad seals don't cause blow motors. lol
    that car hauled ass. built boost fine i believe. his motor was fine IMO smoked because of seals (i think) owner got a rebuild anyways. motor was NOT blown. I was just saying Rbs were shot, the reason his car smoked.



    This car did NOT have RBs and had brand new 2012 stamped turbos. and Was just a FBO with meth. and good service history..


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  8. #33
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  9. #34
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    Um I'm no genius by any means, but why has no one said the most likely cause to very well maintained cars, the wedge flash?
    2 cars mentioned here (OP's customer and boostaholic786 "MAJOR issues) that either blew their motors or started having major issues seemed to be running the wedge flash with a $#@! ton of advance...
    just sayin'... and I very well could be wrong, just looking at what was said.
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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
    Crazy. This absolutely should not be happening. There is no need or sense in pushing that much timing.

    I beat the piss out of my car and many on here kno it and most have seen plenty of vids of me pounding the car ruthlessly at around 700whp. I run 10-12* MAX even on full e85 or race fuel and meth
    Just not worth it. No real benefits at this point in pushing as hard as the op car and our buddy preezy car.
    But to each his own
    On the latest JB4 ST flash we run around 10 degrees advance peak. MBT seems to be a lot lower with the extra boost. But, N54s blowing up should come as no surprise to anyone. The pistons are the weak point and these motors are not getting any younger. It just takes something as seemingly harmless like disabling misfire detection to hole a piston like this.
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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    On the latest JB4 ST flash we run around 10 degrees advance peak. MBT seems to be a lot lower with the extra boost. But, N54s blowing up should come as no surprise to anyone. The pistons are the weak point and these motors are not getting any younger. It just takes something as seemingly harmless like disabling misfire detection to hole a piston like this.
    i agree
    im not surprised
    just sayin that our motors can make big power effortlesly with the right amout of octane and air

    keep up ur good work im looking for some big numbers from both of us by summer Click here to enlarge
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  12. #37
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    Damn cracked ringlands? I swear I better not blow up whenever I get my car back from the shop from all of those years tormenting my STI buddies with their cracked ringlands lol.

  13. #38
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Lots of super tuners forum tuning but not using the dyno to find MBT before releasing maps. Some FBO cars don't even tolerate 13.5-14 degree on 100% E85. Yet lets throw 16.5 at it.

    This is the problem with OS tuning.
    Last edited by BrenM3; 03-04-2014 at 01:15 PM.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    Lots of super tuners forum tuning but not using the dyno to find MBT before releasing maps. Some FBO cars don't even tolerate 13.5-14 degree on 100% E85. Yet lets throw 16.5 at it.

    This is the problem with OS tuning.
    +1 reminds me of when e85 availability became widespread. People started throwing all kinds of timing at 4G63s and cracking cylinders (which was unheard of at the time). On e85 you can easily be well past MBT and not know because it is so knock averse.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammy_0559 Click here to enlarge
    Car was FBO, LPFP, meth, jb4/wedges flash with misfire detection off. Car had top notch maintaince, plugs were new, coils were new and my new injectors were in his car at the time of the blow up, for trouble shooting while my car was torn apart at home.. Injectors are back in my car with no issues. Intake valves were spotless. Car ran great with just a jb4, but anytime time the bms flash or wedges flash was introduced. It randomly started misfiring.

    With misfire detection off it ran great
    No logs.
    Stock flywheel? Flashes don't cause misfires, stock flywheels do beyond a certain power level.

  16. #41
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    Stock turbo MBT is at a very high advance level because the stock frame twins cannot take big boost and advance is the way to make power.

  17. #42
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    Sad to see this happen but its bound to happen eventually when you keep pushing the envelope. Seems like at some point you have to dyno or log to know what is going on and tune properly. I tried the 15+ degree timing but at the end of the day I wasn't comfortable with it and I didn't feel like I gained anything from it. Not the most accurate thing in the world but I used data logs and virtual dyno to see that was actually making less power than I was 3 degrees less advance.

    Hope he gets this rebuilt and back on the road soon Click here to enlarge
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  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Stock flywheel? Flashes don't cause misfires, stock flywheels do beyond a certain power level.
    Flexplate* its an auto, had it been manual i would've made him get a SMFW a long time ago.

    I had a Level 10 TQ converter and VB.
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  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammy_0559 Click here to enlarge
    Flexplate* its an auto, had it been manual i would've made him get a SMFW a long time ago.

    it* had a Level 10 TQ converter and VB.
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  20. #45
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    Octane is the primary factor in MBT. Even if you were past optimum peak pressure (likely not the case at 15deg adv in the top), but had the octane, there would be no engine damage. 15deg could work very well for many... contrary to the "common" thought there is a big difference between E50 and E70 for example. In my experience top end is more octane dependent and could potentially use further VANOS adj (retarded int / adv exh).

  21. #46
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    Were these guys logging there cars on a regular basis with 16.5 degree flashes ?

    I used a wedge flash but did not have much time to work on it due to work and family life (infant at home) but whenever i logged my car was not happy AT ALL. It was his 13.5 degree flash with my rbs.

    I loaded Terrys e85 flash and my car is litteraly sptting out perfect logs and showing 550-560whp in virtual dyno lol
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    There are definite advantages to e70 over e50, but less than e10 to e30. E70 on DI is practically unknockable, but there is more going on than just knock at high advance levels. Heat and pressure increase for one, even without knock, those things aren't great to have. I think the main problem here is misfire detection was off, so there was an issue somewhere to begin with. I wouldn't blame the advance 100% for that reason.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    There are definite advantages to e70 over e50, but less than e10 to e30. E70 on DI is practically unknockable, but there is more going on than just knock at high advance levels. Heat and pressure increase for one, even without knock, those things aren't great to have. I think the main problem here is misfire detection was off, so there was an issue somewhere to begin with. I wouldn't blame the advance 100% for that reason.
    All that needs to be said on the topic. Aggressive advance + not logging diligently + misfire detection off. Not so smart.
    E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Motiv Port Fuel/BMR 3.5" Exhaust/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/ST Coilovers/M3 FCA + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/AA Strutbrace/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
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    He and sammy DEF logged the car. Kept getting misfires in cylinders 1 and 4 if im not mistaken. changed LITERALLY EVERYTHING. His car ran PHENOMENAL when Terry was using the COBB to download the flash maps... After that, he jumped straight on Wedges flash. When he told me 16.5 degrees of timing I was really really iffy of loading it, but i did as well as our buddy...He confirmed with ken that turning misfire detection off would easily lead to catastrophic failure and he told him that it wouldnt and there were more failsafes in the DME... again not blaming anybody or any flash put on our cars...I guess you gotta pay to play and my buddy just wanted the damn car to stop misfiring and thought it was 50% safe...BUT he was wrong.. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    There are definite advantages to e70 over e50, but less than e10 to e30. E70 on DI is practically unknockable, but there is more going on than just knock at high advance levels. Heat and pressure increase for one, even without knock, those things aren't great to have. I think the main problem here is misfire detection was off, so there was an issue somewhere to begin with. I wouldn't blame the advance 100% for that reason.
    I haven't found E70 or even E85 to be unknockable (or at least if you assuming multi cylinder timing corrections represent knock).
    Change is constant

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