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  1. #26
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    SMG? Do not want. DCT.... maybe. That thing is a nightmare. It's the offspring of a slushbox auto and a mt, which becomes a slushmt. But, the mother engineer was an alcoholic with drug abuse problems, so the slushmt has congenital defects that you will have to deal with the rest of your ownership. Abort it before it's too late and try again.

    There's a reason SMG tech never took off, unless of course you count taking off on a flatbed trailer.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    SMG? Do not want. DCT.... maybe. That thing is a nightmare. It's the offspring of a slushbox auto and a mt, which becomes a slushmt. But, the mother engineer was an alcoholic with drug abuse problems, so the slushmt has congenital defects that you will have to deal with the rest of your ownership. Abort it before it's too late and try again.

    There's a reason SMG tech never took off, unless of course you count taking off on a flatbed trailer.
    Noted lol
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  3. #28
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    I hope that didn't come off too harsh. I actually really like the idea behind the SMG's. Well, I did at one point in the distant past when they held onto hope like the economy in the early/mid 90's. But then I worked on a few, and I use the words "a few" very, very modestly. But I digress, that was another life for me nearly 8 years ago.

    I can give you this advice- it would be a pretty cool swap, and there is a price that makes anything workable especially for something trick like this. When they work they are kinda neat, and hold power pretty well if I remember right. Also, the guy taking "$800 or best offer" would probably drop down to a 12-pack of budlight platinum and some wings if you promise him he will never, ever have to see it (or you) again once you cart it out of his life.

  4. #29
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    Wasn’t the E46 SMG notoriously unreliable? I’ve never driven one but seem to recall it being a constant PITA. Would be a cool swap though for just outright torque holding ability. Throw a new clutch in and you’re set.
    E88 N54 w stuff
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  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    It's the offspring of a slushbox auto and a mt, which becomes a slushmt. But, the mother engineer was an alcoholic with drug abuse problems, so the slushmt has congenital defects that you will have to deal with the rest of your ownership. Abort it before it's too late and try again.
    That's... an interesting description.
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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Wasn’t the E46 SMG notoriously unreliable? I’ve never driven one but seem to recall it being a constant PITA. Would be a cool swap though for just outright torque holding ability. Throw a new clutch in and you’re set.
    Never had any problems with mine. If anything you might have to replace the pump but it's basically just a manual gearbox with hydraulic actuation.
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  7. #32
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    I don't recall it being unreliable, but the shifts can be pretty harsh on track.

    Neil

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Never had any problems with mine. If anything you might have to replace the pump but it's basically just a manual gearbox with hydraulic actuation.
    Right but isn't the pump a constant "this is going to break" item ala gen 1 N54 high pressure? I could be totally wrong here, for some reason that just came into my head.

    Cost aside, i have no idea what it costs to keep those boxes in good order. Interesting though. Would love to see someone with the stones to try this swap on an N54 platform. I'm getting scared about the torque to the wheels down low, the step box can't enjoy that very much.
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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Right but isn't the pump a constant "this is going to break" item ala gen 1 N54 high pressure? I could be totally wrong here, for some reason that just came into my head.

    Cost aside, i have no idea what it costs to keep those boxes in good order. Interesting though. Would love to see someone with the stones to try this swap on an N54 platform. I'm getting scared about the torque to the wheels down low, the step box can't enjoy that very much.
    The pumps aren't super reliable but they're more reliable and an easier fix than the HPFP. Take a look at this: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...hydraulic-pump
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  10. #35
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    Hmm well I almost want to forget this idea, but there's just something intriguing about it. The best part I like is the manual control and the ability of it to hold power.

    I want to keep the trans BMW, whether that means rebuilding and coming up with ideas for the 6at (option 1 since I already bought a spare to tear down), Swap in an SMG, or a current DCT (pending upgrade options and costs once released), I just don't want to go to a manual or try to retrofit some big and bulky domestic trans that it just OK.
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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Hmm well I almost want to forget this idea, but there's just something intriguing about it. The best part I like is the manual control and the ability of it to hold power.

    I want to keep the trans BMW, whether that means rebuilding and coming up with ideas for the 6at (option 1 since I already bought a spare to tear down), Swap in an SMG, or a current DCT (pending upgrade options and costs once released), I just don't want to go to a manual or try to retrofit some big and bulky domestic trans that it just OK.
    Yea the 4 speed GM/domestic trans would be such a huge step back for a street driven N54, I don’t see that as a viable option for most people. IMO the solution’s gotta come from the software side of the TCU.

    Are there viable upgrades for the DCT? I know SSP had a clutch pack upgrade but seemed to recall the reviews being underwhelming. On paper I’d think the DCT to be less strong stock for stock compared to the 6HP.
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Are there viable upgrades for the DCT?
    Yes. Gintani's solution offers roughly 40% gains. It's a proper solution not smoke and mirrors like SSP.
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  13. #38
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    Well, they would be very inconsistent with the Colorado weather. When it was cold sometimes they refused to shift, they would be harsh often even when light on the gas, sometimes wouldn't fully disengage preventing the car from starting, solenoids would burn out, shifts were slow or wouldn't occur, they were difficult to launch and drive smooth, downshifts took a while if you were on the freeway, clutches would burn out at the track, synchros would fail frequently, etc. One example, I remember a guy who had his synchro's fail at like 6k miles because of a faulty something electrical. The dealer rebuilt the trans twice before they realized it was something else causing the car to shift wrong and kill them. Not everything was a paralyzing problem, but "unhappy BMW customer" problems were galore. Problems that are near impossible to trace down unless you're intimately familiar with that gearbox, issues that appear and disappear, that leave you stranded without warning. I was never confident diagnosing them, because it wasn't always the pump, and if you fixed the "problem" but missed the ACTUAL cause it's your ass on the line. Parts were difficult to come by and expensive. I'd hide when I'd see a M3 because of it and let the SMG whisperers at the dealership handle them.

    I think the DCT transmissions are much more reliable overall, and are definitely more straightforward to work on. They were designed to be computer controlled, a SMG was not IMO, at least not with early 2000's tech.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    and are definitely more straightforward to work on
    I don't see how this is accurate. The SMG is basically a manual.
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  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't see how this is accurate. The SMG is basically a manual.
    It is a manual, but the extra parts are the difficult part of the SMG. There is a lot of variability built into them so diagnosing things isn't as straight forward as pressures and solenoids.

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    It is a manual, but the extra parts are the difficult part of the SMG. There is a lot of variability built into them so diagnosing things isn't as straight forward as pressures and solenoids.
    I just don't see how that means a DCT is simpler.
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  17. #42
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    I really would love a DCT and have for quite some time but there's two issues....

    1) Power handling
    2) Cost
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  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I just don't see how that means a DCT is simpler.
    I see what you mean. The DCT is probably more mechanically complex no doubt. Diagnostically however I think the DCT would be simpler to figure out issues with since it was designed as an auto and the electronics are superior. Often, the way you diagnose a manual is by driving it, with a SMG the computer drives it so you have to rely on general feel and whatever the computer tells you, which isn't much. I'm capable of fully dismantling a SMG no problem (wouldn't touch the DCT) but most mechanics I've known trying to diagnose their issues is like chasing ghosts regardless of complexity. I guess the trick is just finding someone who is well versed in the SMG.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    SMG? Do not want. DCT.... maybe. That thing is a nightmare. It's the offspring of a slushbox auto and a mt, which becomes a slushmt. But, the mother engineer was an alcoholic with drug abuse problems, so the slushmt has congenital defects that you will have to deal with the rest of your ownership. Abort it before it's too late and try again.

    There's a reason SMG tech never took off, unless of course you count taking off on a flatbed trailer.
    I am not sure if there is any truth in the alco-drug thing, but that's hilarious if true.

    Regradless, a lot of the purer sports cars still use an SMG derivative - people who say it's bad haven't driven it properly. It is NOT meant as an automated transmission, it's an AUTOMATED CLUTCH. Two different things. People over in the US did not understand that throttle manipulation was still required between shifts - just like in a fully manual car.

    I think SMG was awesome, and so does Lambo and many other cars.

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    t is NOT meant as an automated transmission, it's an AUTOMATED CLUTCH. Two different things. People over in the US did not understand that throttle manipulation was still required between shifts - just like in a fully manual car.
    Exactly and I really like the SMG a lot.
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  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Exactly and I really like the SMG a lot.
    I do too - I think it was more pure than DCT to be honest. Better gearbox for the masses? No, but for the purist? I would have to say yes. I miss the SMG, and hope to own an E46 M3 with one again someday.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Wasn’t the E46 SMG notoriously unreliable? I’ve never driven one but seem to recall it being a constant PITA. Would be a cool swap though for just outright torque holding ability. Throw a new clutch in and you’re set.
    Pretty sure the SMG II was a high failure, high priced problem. Otherwise there's nothing wrong with them, HPF built a few ~800 WHP turbo cars with them

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  23. #48
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    If your SMG doesn't rev match for you, your car had a problem. They were supposed to. But I do agree they are a purists transmission and some loved them, but I ask you, at the point you have to modulate throttle, why not just add the damn third pedal? There are autos and there are manuals. IMO, the SMG really has no purpose other than it was an interesting idea that never really worked that good in real life. It wasn't a manual, and it was hardly an auto. It did each job mediocre and unreliably, but they were cool. I wonder if their only purpose was to handle the power and rpm the engines they went on were making, since similar gear number autos are not as happy there. Or maybe an attempt to save money overall if it had worked out, I dunno.

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    BMWs SMG was primitive, the Single Clutch Manual gearboxes work absolutely fine several very high performance cars like the Lamborghini Gallardo & Aventador, Pagani Huayra, and Ferrari Enzo, 458 + 599 GTO. In some cars a DCT makes everything better, except the DCT weighs a lot more than a traditional 6MT or single clutch gearbox. That last part is what I find really interesting because Pagani stated with the Huayra, the weight penalty from the DCT couldn't outperform the car with a single clutch gearbox, even with slightly slower shifts.
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  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    If your SMG doesn't rev match for you, your car had a problem. They were supposed to. But I do agree they are a purists transmission and some loved them, but I ask you, at the point you have to modulate throttle, why not just add the damn third pedal? There are autos and there are manuals. IMO, the SMG really has no purpose other than it was an interesting idea that never really worked that good in real life. It wasn't a manual, and it was hardly an auto. It did each job mediocre and unreliably, but they were cool. I wonder if their only purpose was to handle the power and rpm the engines they went on were making, since similar gear number autos are not as happy there. Or maybe an attempt to save money overall if it had worked out, I dunno.
    It shifted consistently and was excellent in traffic. It just was more convenient than the third pedal. I really like it and the interaction between the shifting action. It felt more direct than the DCT IMO.
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