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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    BMWs SMG was primitive, the Single Clutch Manual gearboxes work absolutely fine several very high performance cars like the Lamborghini Gallardo & Aventador, Pagani Huayra, and Ferrari Enzo, 458 + 599 GTO. In some cars a DCT makes everything better, except the DCT weighs a lot more than a traditional 6MT or single clutch gearbox. That last part is what I find really interesting because Pagani stated with the Huayra, the weight penalty from the DCT couldn't outperform the car with a single clutch gearbox, even with slightly slower shifts.
    How is primitive? Maybe the SMG I but the E46 M3 came with SMG II and it was hardly primitive it worked very well. It was better than the early 'F1' options Ferrari was offering.

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  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    BMWs SMG was primitive, the Single Clutch Manual gearboxes work absolutely fine several very high performance cars like the Lamborghini Gallardo & Aventador, Pagani Huayra, and Ferrari Enzo, 458 + 599 GTO. In some cars a DCT makes everything better, except the DCT weighs a lot more than a traditional 6MT or single clutch gearbox. That last part is what I find really interesting because Pagani stated with the Huayra, the weight penalty from the DCT couldn't outperform the car with a single clutch gearbox, even with slightly slower shifts.
    The weight penalty is roughly 40 pounds. If it was some huge weight gain that eliminated the performance gain the GT3 wouldn't have it.

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  3. #53
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    The dct is just so good, I don't see myself going back to a manual. At WOT and redline is where it shines the most. It grabs the gears so quickly, I freakin love it. If anyone drives a dct, you have to go WOT so you can truly see how lightning quick it is.
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  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The weight penalty is roughly 40 pounds. If it was some huge weight gain that eliminated the performance gain the GT3 wouldn't have it.
    Maybe the M3 DCT vs 6MT is 40 lbs, but neither of us have any idea what DCT did Pagani consider in their car. What we do know is that he decided that a Single Clutch trans was better for his car (besides the fact that makes 720 HP/740 TQ stock), vs the GT3 which is an N/A motor and makes 475 HP & 325 TQ.

    A better comparison would've been the Agera R, but Koenigsegg's engineering is on a different level & their DCT is built in house.
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  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    A better comparison would've been the Agera R, but Koenigsegg's engineering is on a different level & their DCT is built in house.
    Speaking of the Agera, this is a good video that has Kristian explaining more about their gearbox. It operates differently to a normal DCT, it only uses one input shaft the secon wet clutch system enables the gearbox to instantly slow the rotation of the input shaft as another gear is selected. It is lighter as a result.


  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Nugs Click here to enlarge
    Speaking of the Agera, this is a good video that has Kristian explaining more about their gearbox. It operates differently to a normal DCT, it only uses one input shaft the secon wet clutch system enables the gearbox to instantly slow the rotation of the input shaft as another gear is selected. It is lighter as a result.

    http://youtu.be/1QJlL0zNdMA
    That "Inside Koenigsegg" series was phenomenal, really shows how serious he takes every aspect of his cars.
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  7. #57
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    Yeah it was a great series. Although he does look a bit like he should be a Bond Villain with his lack of eyebrows.

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Maybe the M3 DCT vs 6MT is 40 lbs, but neither of us have any idea what DCT did Pagani consider in their car. What we do know is that he decided that a Single Clutch trans was better for his car (besides the fact that makes 720 HP/740 TQ stock), vs the GT3 which is an N/A motor and makes 475 HP & 325 TQ.

    A better comparison would've been the Agera R, but Koenigsegg's engineering is on a different level & their DCT is built in house.
    It's not going to be some insane weight difference to the point it doesn't outperform a manual.

    Single clutch is cheaper and easier for handling the torque. So of course it's 'better' for him.

    I don't believe Koenigsegg building their trans in house. They have to be getting it from someone and then modifying it just like they do with the Ford based motors.

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  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Nugs Click here to enlarge
    Speaking of the Agera, this is a good video that has Kristian explaining more about their gearbox. It operates differently to a normal DCT, it only uses one input shaft the secon wet clutch system enables the gearbox to instantly slow the rotation of the input shaft as another gear is selected. It is lighter as a result.

    http://youtu.be/1QJlL0zNdMA
    Now that makes more sense.

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  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's not going to be some insane weight difference to the point it doesn't outperform a manual.

    Single clutch is cheaper and easier for handling the torque. So of course it's 'better' for him.

    I don't believe Koenigsegg building their trans in house. They have to be getting it from someone and then modifying it just like they do with the Ford based motors.
    I thought they stopped using the ford based motors a few years ago? They build their own engines in house now i believe...
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  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    I thought they stopped using the ford based motors a few years ago? They build their own engines in house now i believe...
    From what I understand they have tremendously updated it but it is still the basic Ford design?

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  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    From what I understand they have tremendously updated it but it is still the basic Ford design?
    CCX - "The new engine is of all aluminum construction, made out of 356 aluminum with a T7 heat treat to further enhance block integrity and cylinder bore chill during casting. Specifically created and cast for Koenigsegg by Grainger & Worrall, a casting specialist with F1 experience in drivetrain components, the engine is built, assembled and tested at their Ängelholm production plant."

    http://web.archive.org/web/200708110.../ccx.asp?ccx=2

    "
    Engine Design

    At Koenigsegg, our cars are built with engines that are designed in-house. We have years of experience in the clean-sheet design of complete engine solutions, and we can work within short time frames if needed. We can also design for optical combustion research engines for high load. As we have close relationships with our specialist subcontractors, we can promise you swift progress from inception to end result."



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  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    CCX - "The new engine is of all aluminum construction, made out of 356 aluminum with a T7 heat treat to further enhance block integrity and cylinder bore chill during casting. Specifically created and cast for Koenigsegg by Grainger & Worrall, a casting specialist with F1 experience in drivetrain components, the engine is built, assembled and tested at their Ängelholm production plant."

    http://web.archive.org/web/200708110.../ccx.asp?ccx=2

    "
    Engine Design

    At Koenigsegg, our cars are built with engines that are designed in-house. We have years of experience in the clean-sheet design of complete engine solutions, and we can work within short time frames if needed. We can also design for optical combustion research engines for high load. As we have close relationships with our specialist subcontractors, we can promise you swift progress from inception to end result."



    http://www.koenigsegg.com/koenigsegg/powertrain/
    Yes this is true but isn't it an enhanced Ford modular V8 design?

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  14. #64
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    Here:

    Koenigsegg’s twin-turbo 5.0-liter V8 began life as a Ford racing engine, but on its way to becoming one of the most powerful engines in the world, it’s been almost entirely rebuilt. Nearly every part has been redesigned, presumably from Thor’s hammer, Mjolnir. In fact, the sound this engine makes can perhaps best be likened to the god of Thunder making sweet love to a Ford GT40.


    Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/in...#ixzz2swvXc0oL


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  15. #65
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    Here, this clarifies it a bit I think:

    Koenigsegg had Grainger and Warroll (UK not Sweden) change the bore and stroke slightly, otherwise it's virtually identical to the engines G&W makes for Ford. They even used Ford's alternator and water pump. The valve covers and timing chain covers look like they will swap without modifications. I say the Agera is still powered by Ford. Custom built, but still Ford.

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