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  1. #226
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    I would argue that a 6MT with NLS is better than AT during roll races. At a minimum, the 6mt doesn't flatline timing Click here to enlarge

    Ive be raced two other at n54's, never gave up an inch during shifts. I'm actually quite sure I can shift faster than the 6HP.
    ije0s can still flatline with the 6mt...just not as severe but my 6at is faster, no doubt even with the flatline

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I understand you guys are new to the racing world. It's the only reason you would even consider making a MT vs AT argument when were talking strictly straight line racing. And a proper tranny means, properly working, no issues with it holding power, flatlining or any of that, It can be the factory tranny. A properly working AT will ALWAYS be faster. Take a car put the best drag racer in the world in it, have run it with an MT, pull it down, put an AT in it. Have him run it again the AT WILL be faster. That is a FACT. You cannot shift faster than an AT, sorry to burst your bubble. Now with all that said, I bought an MT for our shop car because first off all. No issues, secondly they are more fun. But in a straight line in a turbo car, not faster or quicker.
    100% true

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    DCT > all
    Pretty much

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    We aren't talking bone stock brah. 6MT with NLS and CDV delete.

    The test is pretty easy - the wotbox interface allows me to program how long to interrupt the ignition power supply for while initiating a NLS. If my shift took longer than the time delay, RPMs will shoot up vs accelerate in the next gear. I'm most comfortable with it at 125ms, but have gone as low as 75ms. I could post my Cobb logs but I don't think the time stamps have the resolution to show definitively how many ms it took.
    Do this for us then, because we are obviously all wrong, throw your car on a dyno and run from 40-150 and see how much power you lose during shifts, then compare to the dynos of a 6at doing the same thing. Then race a car in good working order running the same timing and boost that has a 6at, see who wins. I have both so i'm unbiased. I can assure you that the manual is more fun to drive and feels faster but it certainly is not.

  2. #227
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT-Tom Click here to enlarge
    Do this for us then, because we are obviously all wrong, throw your car on a dyno and run from 40-150 and see how much power you lose during shifts, then compare to the dynos of a 6at doing the same thing. Then race a car in good working order running the same timing and boost that has a 6at, see who wins. I have both so i'm unbiased. I can assure you that the manual is more fun to drive and feels faster but it certainly is not.
    You know that we're talking about No Lift Shifting right? There's very minimal power loss during that transaction LOL.

    By the way, this whole conversation started by the statement

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    lol the most skilled pro drivers can't keep up with an AT
    Which I replied that is not true. My dads nissan altima does not shift faster than me, that's an AT tranny no?
    @lulz_m3 and I both have logs and verifications of our switching gear timing. We're not making $#@! up, I guess I need to race @alpinedevil335 before I go single.

    PS, the only advantage the 335i AT tranny has VS the MT is the shorter gearing, which might make the car "faster" but not at top end and after I switch the gear. That's the only variable in this that can make it plausible.
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  3. #228
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    super human power is super fast shifting
    Click here to enlarge

  4. #229
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    You know that we're talking about No Lift Shifting right? There's very minimal power loss during that transaction LOL.

    By the way, this whole conversation started by the statement



    Which I replied that is not true. My dads nissan altima does not shift faster than me, that's an AT tranny no?
    @lulz_m3 and I both have logs and verifications of our switching gear timing. We're not making $#@! up, I guess I need to race @alpinedevil335 before I go single.

    PS, the only advantage the 335i AT tranny has VS the MT is the shorter gearing, which might make the car "faster" but not at top end and after I switch the gear. That's the only variable in this that can make it plausible.
    You may be missing the point here, no matter the car if it has a turbo at least, an AT will be faster than even a NLS manual with the best driver in the world. Don't believe just look at the drag times for this car, the fastest ones, even with less power, are autos... It actually has very little to do with how fast you can shift, you may be able to beat it in $#@! speed but you will never win the power war between gears.. Like I said though do the dyno and see for yourself.

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    3 pedals= manual
    2 pedals= auto
    SMG= Sequential Manual Gearbox.... it is an automated manual, not a complete automatic, and not on the same level as the 6AT and certainly not the DCT
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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  6. #231
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT-Tom Click here to enlarge
    You may be missing the point here, no matter the car if it has a turbo at least, an AT will be faster than even a NLS manual with the best driver in the world. Don't believe just look at the drag times for this car, the fastest ones, even with less power, are autos... It actually has very little to do with how fast you can shift, you may be able to beat it in $#@! speed but you will never win the power war between gears.. Like I said though do the dyno and see for yourself.
    Just give up...I've already tried explaining the difference in power loss between shifts, but apparently no power for ~130 ms or whatever is better than having some power 100% of the time...

    Maybe pointing out how the DCT shift times very from 30-200ms, yes that's right, 200ms will help. DCT's advantage over a traditional auto isn't just shift SPEED but amount of power loss between shifts, both are significant upgrades over a manual no matter the driver...this is really just a silly conversation at this point cause of two young guys with big egos thinking they can outshift an auto transmission
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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  7. #232
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    You know that we're talking about No Lift Shifting right? There's very minimal power loss during that transaction LOL.

    By the way, this whole conversation started by the statement



    Which I replied that is not true. My dads nissan altima does not shift faster than me, that's an AT tranny no?
    @lulz_m3 and I both have logs and verifications of our switching gear timing. We're not making $#@! up, I guess I need to race @alpinedevil335 before I go single.

    PS, the only advantage the 335i AT tranny has VS the MT is the shorter gearing, which might make the car "faster" but not at top end and after I switch the gear. That's the only variable in this that can make it plausible.
    You're just not getting it, it's beyond shift speed, and I already stated that there are auto's out there you will be able to outshift, in the 90's almost every performance model was faster in the manual version, not the case anymore...no one can take away the enjoyment of ripping through gears in a manual, but give up on the performance edge, that's in the past
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Just give up...I've already tried explaining the difference in power loss between shifts, but apparently no power for ~130 ms or whatever is better than having some power 100% of the time...

    Maybe pointing out how the DCT shift times very from 30-200ms, yes that's right, 200ms will help. DCT's advantage over a traditional auto isn't just shift SPEED but amount of power loss between shifts, both are significant upgrades over a manual no matter the driver...this is really just a silly conversation at this point cause of two young guys with big egos thinking they can outshift an auto transmission

    Tempted to throw some money on a race but I'd be happy just to see the look on his face Click here to enlarge

  9. #234
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT-Tom Click here to enlarge
    Tempted to throw some money on a race but I'd be happy just to see the look on his face Click here to enlarge
    I have money too. I'm down to race stock turbo FBO METH w/e you want in an auto. I'll bring out my best you bring yours wherever you wanna find them. 60-160 race.

    I honestly don't doubt the auto 335 would beat me. They have shorter gears which is a big up for them to move faster. If it's a true tranny shifting rave, both diffs would need to be equal gearing.

    I'll end it here. Auto 335 may be faster than a 6mt due to gearing. I still think that people can shift faster than the auto tranny. That's what we were talking about at first. Which tranny can change gears faster, not which 335 is faster.
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  10. #235
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    The auto has pluses and minuses. It's better in that you hold more torque through shifts than a MT ever will be able to, and you can brake torque for a better launch from a stop. But on the N54 the AT can't rev as high so you loose out on 50-75whp of the power band up top. And the AT is less reliable at high power levels.

    IMHO, keep in mind we have both, AT FTW. Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 02-22-2014 at 11:35 PM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Probably about that, but then you have a slow MT...AT's are so much quicker and hold boost through shifts
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    I have money too. I'm down to race stock turbo FBO METH w/e you want in an auto. I'll bring out my best you bring yours wherever you wanna find them. 60-160 race.

    I honestly don't doubt the auto 335 would beat me. They have shorter gears which is a big up for them to move faster. If it's a true tranny shifting rave, both diffs would need to be equal gearing.

    I'll end it here. Auto 335 may be faster than a 6mt due to gearing. I still think that people can shift faster than the auto tranny. That's what we were talking about at first. Which tranny can change gears faster, not which 335 is faster.
    Yes, please end it, maybe quoting this first post I made that apparently started it will refresh your memory. You and lulz started with the time it takes to shift rather than what's faster. Really silly to clutter up this great thread with such a nonsense claim.

    Now lets get this back on topic and move on. I think Terry is showing that this ST kit is a huge improvement over Stage 2 turbos and the car is a lot of fun without any improvements to even an AT.
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    I just want to have my turbo in already lol.
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  13. #238
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    I guess I need to race @alpinedevil335 before I go single.
    don't threaten me with a good time, lets do this!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alpinedevil335 Click here to enlarge
    don't threaten me with a good time, lets do this!
    s
    Yep, we still never got to run it LMAO. $#@! how can we do it before thursday!? That's when the turbos come out.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    s
    Yep, we still never got to run it LMAO. $#@! how can we do it before thursday!? That's when the turbos come out.
    You have a spot? i'm there.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alpinedevil335 Click here to enlarge
    You have a spot? i'm there.
    I'll text you LOL, we can't get too public LMAO.
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    @Terry@BMS I meant to ask you in this thread when you first started it...did you get a chance to try launching with this turbo yet? I'm curious how the car came off the line compared to stock turbos?
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    @Terry@BMS I meant to ask you in this thread when you first started it...did you get a chance to try launching with this turbo yet? I'm curious how the car came off the line compared to stock turbos?
    I tried but trans would not take it. We'll see how it does with the lvl10.
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    For those interested in a what a mild FFTEC 5858 bottom mount setup puts out we did a couple runs today with Ando's 335. It's an automatic trans running 93 octane and 17psi as a daily driver setup.

    For kicks we also ran it at 23psi with meth enabled but the octane wasn't quite up to the task. He will be testing the car this weekend at ShiftSector with race gas. Very curious to see how it will perform. Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
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    Do you have any graphs that show the rpm from 1000 up? I just want to get a better picture of how this spools.

    Definitely good power with mid 500's.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Do you have any graphs that show the rpm from 1000 up? I just want to get a better picture of how this spools.

    Definitely good power with mid 500's.
    at 3500 the spool

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    I see "stage 2" turbo options basically being obsolete soon. I mean, to keep them at the levels where they seem to be very reliable isn't a big upgrade over stock, so I see a lot of people going this route with smaller singles. On the street I bet it makes pretty good boost by 3000RPM, making it a TON of fun
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    For those interested in a what a mild FFTEC 5858 bottom mount setup puts out we did a couple runs today with Ando's 335. It's an automatic trans running 93 octane and 17psi as a daily driver setup.

    For kicks we also ran it at 23psi with meth enabled but the octane wasn't quite up to the task. He will be testing the car this weekend at ShiftSector with race gas. Very curious to see how it will perform. Click here to enlarge

    http://www.AcuraBoost.com/images/imp...c1d13976-1.jpg

    http://www.AcuraBoost.com/images/imp...c1d13976-1.jpg

    http://www.AcuraBoost.com/images/imp...c1d13976-1.jpg
    just 15rwhp more then RB's at 22psi!
    try to rise the boost

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Do you have any graphs that show the rpm from 1000 up? I just want to get a better picture of how this spools.

    Definitely good power with mid 500's.
    The runs are done on a dynojet in 4th gear. On the street this one hits its boost target around 3400rpm.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135idct Click here to enlarge
    just 15rwhp more then RB's at 22psi!
    try to rise the boost
    There are reliability factors as well. Single turbos basically get started where RBs max out. Ando is happy with around 500rw on pump + meth so for now the car will stay around 20psi.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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