Close

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,891
    Rep Points
    31,838.9
    Mentioned
    2090 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    319


    Yes Reputation No

    Inflated numbers? Vivid Racing claims 407 wheel horsepower for exhaust and VR ECU tuned E9X M3 S65 on a Mustang dyno

    The Mustang dynamometer is generally known as reading lower than a Dynojet. That is, if you don't mess with the settings. Numbers can be fairly easily manipulated on the Mustang. Now, an E9X M3 stock shows a baseline of 317 wheel horsepower on the Active Autowerke Mustang dyno. With full bolt ons including a tune and catless X-pipe, Active Autowerke shows 345 wheel horsepower on their dyno on 93 octane fuel. Vivid Racing shows 379 wheel horsepower with exhaust only on 91 octane and no ECU tune.

    Click here to enlarge

    A disparity of 34 wheel wheel horsepower before the tune? Vivid Racing then claims 407 wheel horsepower after adding their VR ECU tune. That means a difference of 62 wheel horsepower between what Active Autowerke is showing and Vivid Racing is showing on a Mustang dyno. So what is going on here?

    Vivid Racing definitely has their dyno reading high. Why is this? Because it exaggerates the gains and the peak figures making them look more impressive to generate sales. BimmerBoost hates when people exaggerate the numbers for sales figures. Active Autowerke could do the same but they choose not to. Vivid should at least tell us they set it higher.

    Now, there is no doubt that Vivid Engineering and their VR Tune program is getting nice gains out of the S65 V8 with a tune. It is 2014 now and people have been getting large gains out of the S65 V8 for 5 years now. They are trying to enter the market and it seems they are doing so by throwing out some huge dyno figures to get attention.

    One should not expect 407 wheel horsepower, certainly not a Mustang dyno on 91 octane, from just a tune and exhaust. It is not a realistic representation of the horsepower. Even on a Dynojet this car would not be making over 400 wheel. Cracking 400 wheel on the S65 V8 naturally aspirated is possible but it will take some aggressive tuning and additional mods such as an underdrive pulley.

    Just another lesson in all dynos not being equal and why you should put a premium on third party results (even though sometimes those are thinly veiled marketing as well):

    Click here to enlarge

    Vivid Racing Graph:

    Click here to enlarge

    Active Autowerke Graph:

    Click here to enlarge

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tallahassee
    Posts
    1,483
    Rep Points
    17.1
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Hey, it got your attention and publicity for the claims. Mission accomplished in their eyes? Click here to enlarge

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,891
    Rep Points
    31,838.9
    Mentioned
    2090 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    319



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    Hey, it got your attention and publicity for the claims. Mission accomplished in their eyes? Click here to enlarge
    I would guess so. Didn't get my respect though.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,891
    Rep Points
    31,838.9
    Mentioned
    2090 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    319



    Yes Reputation No
    Wonder if they will respond:

    Click here to enlarge

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    1,104
    Rep Points
    1,398.3
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Everyone knows that if you want over 400whp on a tune you need an N54 not a S65 Click here to enlarge

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    45
    Rep Points
    0.4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    No some S65's can do it! Click here to enlarge

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    761
    Rep Points
    380.2
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Yes Reputation No
    Smells like a rat oh $#@! its a rat!!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Tri-State
    Posts
    594
    Rep Points
    47.5
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    lmao you posted on their facebook thats awesome

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    380
    Rep Points
    672.5
    Mentioned
    67 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    7


    Yes Reputation No
    Here's my 2 cents on 'Why do certain companies claim to make more power with ther upgrade kits than you do with your uprade kits?":

    Without getting into "Inertia" (spinning drum power calculated how fast it was accelerated) vs. "Mustang" dyno (eddy current absorbs & measures power thru a magnetic field) of which one is more correct under what conditions. It is generally not possible to compare accurately (specially load dynos); since often do not alway give the same results (Ie: changing axles/tire size, atmospheric conditions will play a HUGE role in spark sensitivity and that will influence torque, etc.)

    Some "tricks" claims are due to poor and misleading dynometers test practices, which it's the easier to be done on a Mustang dyno. Or just writing "trick" higher number on paper. Ask for more supporting data from the competitors. Truly meaningful power numbers cannot be collect by comparing numbers. Lack of fundamental understanding of the way a Bosch DDE/ME works and engine hardware safe limitations. While, other genuine dyno numbers are expense of engine, DPF/Catalyst, meth injection or drivetrain durability and emissions. Also, ALWAYS try to use SAE J1349 standard, but you can also use STD (SAE J607)

    Also, peak power numbers do not always tell the whole story. BTW, I can vouch for AA dynos numbers since THEY CAN PROPERLY use a MUSTANG dyno.
    Last edited by LW@MTG; 01-24-2014 at 01:14 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    4,201
    Rep Points
    1,800.5
    Mentioned
    102 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    19


    Yes Reputation No
    400 WHP on an S65 with bolt-ons CAN be done, but it's gonna require at least 93 octane and the best of every bolt-on (the MS intake, a high flow filter, the Gintani/Dinan catless X-Pipe & high flow Rear Section, and Pulley) and a quality, custom tune (I haven't seen any pump can tunes over 390 WHP, still a very respectable number).

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    1,960
    Rep Points
    2,643.2
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    27


    Yes Reputation No
    if an e90 m3 was able to hit 450 n/a i think i would own one for the rest of my life
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
    Current - 16 Jeep Wrangler - Few Mods
    Looking for a n54 project e90/e82

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    171
    Rep Points
    142.0
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    Sad

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    171
    Rep Points
    142.0
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I would guess so. Didn't get my respect though.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    530
    Rep Points
    458.5
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    5


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    if an e90 m3 was able to hit 450 n/a i think i would own one for the rest of my life
    http://dinancars.com/product/d850-11...ries&mid=1114/

    Pony up!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,891
    Rep Points
    31,838.9
    Mentioned
    2090 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    319



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
    Way too much money for a stroker and way more than 450 crank should be delivered.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Pretty sure I am in Mexico
    Posts
    922
    Rep Points
    930.4
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    10


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I used to live right by their shop. Most of the employees I ever talked to were lacking severely in general knowledge and prone to wild exaggerations.

    ex. They built a Pepsi RX-8 (for Hot Import Nights Shows originally if I remember right), the guys running the dyno tried to tell me it was making 900 whp. And then proceeded to argue with me about how my tuner worked and tried to rewire it (incorrectly) after i left for lunch.

    yea....Not a huge amount of respect for them in the Phoenix area, at least outside of the high school ricer crowd.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    746
    Rep Points
    1,054.0
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    11


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Sad indeed, no way that is making north of 400whp. I would be thrilled to make 380 whp with tune + xpipe + pulley. Will have the evolve setup next week and will report back on my dyno findings.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    171
    Rep Points
    142.0
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I would click thumbs up but 75.5 rep points do not allow. LOL



    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge
    Sad indeed, no way that is making north of 400whp. I would be thrilled to make 380 whp with tune + xpipe + pulley. Will have the evolve setup next week and will report back on my dyno findings.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    1,960
    Rep Points
    2,643.2
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    27


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
    Is there anyone whose purchased this and dynoed?

    or has anyone done a na build north of 440whp?
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
    Current - 16 Jeep Wrangler - Few Mods
    Looking for a n54 project e90/e82

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,891
    Rep Points
    31,838.9
    Mentioned
    2090 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    319



    Yes Reputation No
    There was a stroker like 5 years ago doing 440 whp. I imagine today you should be able to hit close to 500 with cams.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    4,201
    Rep Points
    1,800.5
    Mentioned
    102 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    19


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    Is there anyone whose purchased this and dynoed?

    or has anyone done a na build north of 440whp?
    VAC? The RD Sport/Dinan/M3 GTS dyno comparison really didn't do the stroker motors any favors since everything was under 400 WHP
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,891
    Rep Points
    31,838.9
    Mentioned
    2090 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    319



    Yes Reputation No
    ^ incorrect

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    4,201
    Rep Points
    1,800.5
    Mentioned
    102 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    19


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    ^ incorrect
    Edit -- Realize now I wrote 400 in that previous post..... Fail. 400 WHP (like I said in post #10 ) can be done on a stock motor with 93 octane, quality bolt-ons & a custom tune. 400 WHP+ with a stroker should be cake.
    Last edited by benzy89; 01-25-2014 at 03:10 AM.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    103
    Rep Points
    67.4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Hmmm. On a dynojet this would be like 430 WHP... I'm not buying into either.

    Always was a little suspect of VR; especially the cheapy looking Agency Power parts they sell for big $$$

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    175
    Rep Points
    208.6
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Vivid Racing is just made up of sketchy sales people with an appetite for the gullible.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •