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Thread: Inflated numbers? Vivid Racing claims 407 wheel horsepower for exhaust and VR ECU tuned E9X M3 S65 on a Mustang dyno

              
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    Inflated numbers? Vivid Racing claims 407 wheel horsepower for exhaust and VR ECU tuned E9X M3 S65 on a Mustang dyno

    The Mustang dynamometer is generally known as reading lower than a Dynojet. That is, if you don't mess with the settings. Numbers can be fairly easily manipulated on the Mustang. Now, an E9X M3 stock shows a baseline of 317 wheel horsepower on the Active Autowerke Mustang dyno. With full bolt ons including a tune and catless X-pipe, Active Autowerke shows 345 wheel horsepower on their dyno on 93 octane fuel. Vivid Racing shows 379 wheel horsepower with exhaust only on 91 octane and no ECU tune.

    Click here to enlarge

    A disparity of 34 wheel wheel horsepower before the tune? Vivid Racing then claims 407 wheel horsepower after adding their VR ECU tune. That means a difference of 62 wheel horsepower between what Active Autowerke is showing and Vivid Racing is showing on a Mustang dyno. So what is going on here?

    Vivid Racing definitely has their dyno reading high. Why is this? Because it exaggerates the gains and the peak figures making them look more impressive to generate sales. BimmerBoost hates when people exaggerate the numbers for sales figures. Active Autowerke could do the same but they choose not to. Vivid should at least tell us they set it higher.

    Now, there is no doubt that Vivid Engineering and their VR Tune program is getting nice gains out of the S65 V8 with a tune. It is 2014 now and people have been getting large gains out of the S65 V8 for 5 years now. They are trying to enter the market and it seems they are doing so by throwing out some huge dyno figures to get attention.

    One should not expect 407 wheel horsepower, certainly not a Mustang dyno on 91 octane, from just a tune and exhaust. It is not a realistic representation of the horsepower. Even on a Dynojet this car would not be making over 400 wheel. Cracking 400 wheel on the S65 V8 naturally aspirated is possible but it will take some aggressive tuning and additional mods such as an underdrive pulley.

    Just another lesson in all dynos not being equal and why you should put a premium on third party results (even though sometimes those are thinly veiled marketing as well):

    Click here to enlarge

    Vivid Racing Graph:

    Click here to enlarge

    Active Autowerke Graph:

    Click here to enlarge

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    Hey, it got your attention and publicity for the claims. Mission accomplished in their eyes? Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Hey, it got your attention and publicity for the claims. Mission accomplished in their eyes? Click here to enlarge
    I would guess so. Didn't get my respect though.

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    Wonder if they will respond:

    Click here to enlarge

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Everyone knows that if you want over 400whp on a tune you need an N54 not a S65 Click here to enlarge

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    No some S65's can do it! Click here to enlarge

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    Smells like a rat oh $#@! its a rat!!

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    lmao you posted on their facebook thats awesome

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    Here's my 2 cents on 'Why do certain companies claim to make more power with ther upgrade kits than you do with your uprade kits?":

    Without getting into "Inertia" (spinning drum power calculated how fast it was accelerated) vs. "Mustang" dyno (eddy current absorbs & measures power thru a magnetic field) of which one is more correct under what conditions. It is generally not possible to compare accurately (specially load dynos); since often do not alway give the same results (Ie: changing axles/tire size, atmospheric conditions will play a HUGE role in spark sensitivity and that will influence torque, etc.)

    Some "tricks" claims are due to poor and misleading dynometers test practices, which it's the easier to be done on a Mustang dyno. Or just writing "trick" higher number on paper. Ask for more supporting data from the competitors. Truly meaningful power numbers cannot be collect by comparing numbers. Lack of fundamental understanding of the way a Bosch DDE/ME works and engine hardware safe limitations. While, other genuine dyno numbers are expense of engine, DPF/Catalyst, meth injection or drivetrain durability and emissions. Also, ALWAYS try to use SAE J1349 standard, but you can also use STD (SAE J607)

    Also, peak power numbers do not always tell the whole story. BTW, I can vouch for AA dynos numbers since THEY CAN PROPERLY use a MUSTANG dyno.
    Last edited by m54b25; 01-24-2014 at 01:14 PM.

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    400 WHP on an S65 with bolt-ons CAN be done, but it's gonna require at least 93 octane and the best of every bolt-on (the MS intake, a high flow filter, the Gintani/Dinan catless X-Pipe & high flow Rear Section, and Pulley) and a quality, custom tune (I haven't seen any pump can tunes over 390 WHP, still a very respectable number).

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    if an e90 m3 was able to hit 450 n/a i think i would own one for the rest of my life
    2009 FBO RB'd mtech e92 6AT - 11.3@126
    2008 FBO CR e82 6M - 12.0@120 - Sold

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    Sad

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    Click here to enlarge


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I would guess so. Didn't get my respect though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    if an e90 m3 was able to hit 450 n/a i think i would own one for the rest of my life
    http://dinancars.com/product/d850-11...ries&mid=1114/

    Pony up!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
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    Way too much money for a stroker and way more than 450 crank should be delivered.

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    I used to live right by their shop. Most of the employees I ever talked to were lacking severely in general knowledge and prone to wild exaggerations.

    ex. They built a Pepsi RX-8 (for Hot Import Nights Shows originally if I remember right), the guys running the dyno tried to tell me it was making 900 whp. And then proceeded to argue with me about how my tuner worked and tried to rewire it (incorrectly) after i left for lunch.

    yea....Not a huge amount of respect for them in the Phoenix area, at least outside of the high school ricer crowd.

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    Sad indeed, no way that is making north of 400whp. I would be thrilled to make 380 whp with tune + xpipe + pulley. Will have the evolve setup next week and will report back on my dyno findings.

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    I would click thumbs up but 75.5 rep points do not allow. LOL



    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Sad indeed, no way that is making north of 400whp. I would be thrilled to make 380 whp with tune + xpipe + pulley. Will have the evolve setup next week and will report back on my dyno findings.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
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    Is there anyone whose purchased this and dynoed?

    or has anyone done a na build north of 440whp?
    2009 FBO RB'd mtech e92 6AT - 11.3@126
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    There was a stroker like 5 years ago doing 440 whp. I imagine today you should be able to hit close to 500 with cams.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Is there anyone whose purchased this and dynoed?

    or has anyone done a na build north of 440whp?
    VAC? The RD Sport/Dinan/M3 GTS dyno comparison really didn't do the stroker motors any favors since everything was under 400 WHP
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    ^ incorrect

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    ^ incorrect
    Edit -- Realize now I wrote 400 in that previous post..... Fail. 400 WHP (like I said in post #10 ) can be done on a stock motor with 93 octane, quality bolt-ons & a custom tune. 400 WHP+ with a stroker should be cake.
    Last edited by benzy89; 01-25-2014 at 03:10 AM.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    Hmmm. On a dynojet this would be like 430 WHP... I'm not buying into either.

    Always was a little suspect of VR; especially the cheapy looking Agency Power parts they sell for big $$$

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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Vivid Racing is just made up of sketchy sales people with an appetite for the gullible.

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