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  1. #26
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    yup.
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    A little late dinan.... lol

    They need to really step up their game.
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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    While I agree with the above article in that 1) Dinan is overpriced for comparatively lower performance gain, 2) There are real merits to piggyback tunes and the community experience supports their long-term reliability (and that's coming from someone who uses a flash), and 3) Dinan's comments on transmission slip seem far-fetched...

    From an editorial standpoint, your line that, "Saying it is lying rather than modifying the signal is excessively negative terminology that is not really appropriate from a professional."

    Doesn't that seem a little melodramatic calling into question Dinan's professionalism? Let's be honest. Every single post I've read on this site hates on someone or attacks someone, and it's based on opinion. Dinan has his opinion. I don't agree with him. But still...

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by e92mech Click here to enlarge
    Doesn't that seem a little melodramatic calling into question Dinan's professionalism?
    Not at all I think it's spot on.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by e92mech Click here to enlarge
    Every single post I've read on this site hates on someone or attacks someone, and it's based on opinion. Dinan has his opinion.
    I can't have mine?

    Really, every single post hates on someone or attacks someone? This was just written literally hours ago:

    In addition to the horsepower and torque gains GIAC is able to raise the rev limiter 200 rpm. They are also able to raise the launch control by 200 rpm which is impressive showing good control over the dual clutch transmission software. Additionally, GIAC says they are able to increase the clamping force of the clutches making this a truly complete tune.

    Definitely impressive tuning, check out the dynographs, specs, and video below.


    Criticism is applied where it is justified and praise where it is justified. Sounds like you need to do more reading.

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  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    I am shocked to see the article says that no one at bimmerboost has not seen a piggyback resulted in a "transmission slipping", prior to Terry finding a way to "fool" the TCU the DCT had slippage issues with his method of tuning. Currently, Shiv has not been able to find away around it. Maybe Dinan was illaborating on old news and does not know about the progress Terry has made even though I reject his method of tuning. Props go where they should...
    I thought this was the case but I can't remember where I read it. Do you have a link by any chance?
    is this still an issue for DCT cars running a piggyback only?

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Nugs Click here to enlarge
    I thought this was the case but I can't remember where I read it. Do you have a link by any chance?
    is this still an issue for DCT cars running a piggyback only?
    Oh I missed the DCT part I don't know why.

    DCT tuning is something Dinan doesn't have down either or have upgrades for. DCT trans slip can happen with flash tunes as well...

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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Nugs Click here to enlarge
    I thought this was the case but I can't remember where I read it. Do you have a link by any chance?is this still an issue for DCT cars running a piggyback only?
    Just Google it " 335is DCT Slippage " there are boat loads of info on it. Again though, Terry found a way around this but no without limits I assume , however Shiv did not find a work around needless to say he doesn't care as he has moved on to another platform so I heard.

    @Sticky pretty much laid down the benchmark for the limit of a stock DCT. His did not start to slip till 550 wtq and I am not buying Gintani's BS that you need their special softwareEverything needed is in the DME tables via flash only to come near, target, exceed that. The N54 DCT is much more picky about communication with the DME than the N54 AT IMO from what I have seenMark my words a flash only tune will hit 550+ wtq before a piggyback does
    Last edited by BuraQ; 01-21-2014 at 10:57 PM.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    His did not start to slip till 550 wtq and I am not buying Gintani's BS that you need their special software
    It's a combination of software and hardware if you are going to upgrade the DCT. It isn't BS. ESS claims special DCT software Gintani has been up front about pushing the DCT pumps with their software.

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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    Just Google it " 335is DCT Slippage " there are boat loads of info on it. Again though, Terry found a way around this but no without limits I assume , however Shiv did not find a work around needless to say he doesn't care as he has moved on to another platform so I heard.

    @Sticky pretty much laid down the benchmark for the limit of a stock DCT. His did not start to slip till 550 wtq and I am not buying Gintani's BS that you need their special softwareEverything needed is in the DME tables via flash only to come near, target, exceed that. The N54 DCT is much more picky about communication with the DME than the N54 AT IMO from what I have seenMark my words a flash only tune will hit 550+ wtq before a piggyback does
    I'm Fairly sure the COBB software we use for the R35 GTR allows us to adjust DCT pressures and shifts as does the motec stand alone for the same car. Havent had the chance to use the COBB software on a BMW yet though

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    ...DCT trans slip can happen with flash tunes as well...
    @Sticky, it is more common with piggybacks. The only way for a DCT to have slippage is that the driver mod doesnt know WTF he is doing. Does that remind you of anyone ? Click here to enlarge

    Remind you, I have 400+ launches no slippage, but on 3rd driveshaft. I know when and how the clutches do slip.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    @Sticky, it is more common with piggybacks. The only way for a DCT to have slippage is that the driver mod doesnt know WTF he is doing. Does that remind you of anyone ? Click here to enlarge

    Remind you, I have 400+ launches no slippage, but on 3rd driveshaft. I know when and how the clutches do slip.
    Why exactly is it more common on piggybacks?

    I don't know what you mean by the DCT slipping due to driver mod.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why exactly is it more common on piggybacks?

    I don't know what you mean by the DCT slipping due to driver mod.
    I think he means not flooring it in too higher a gear or letting the transmission kick down itself when going WOT. You can get a big slip of the clutches when that happens. Always try to shift manually.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's a combination of software and hardware if you are going to upgrade the DCT. It isn't BS. ESS claims special DCT software Gintani has been up front about pushing the DCT pumps with their software.
    I did not address upgrading the DCT on our cars. I was addressing the actual limit before slippage on our stock DCT.

    Now granted, the M3 and 335is mechatronics are programmed differently. It is obvious since the 335is pushes out more torque than the M3 from the factory it will have more tolerance in handling increased torque without some special DCT software, unless ESS software is "specific" to the M3 DCT controller

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by APC Australia Click here to enlarge
    I'm Fairly sure the COBB software we use for the R35 GTR allows us to adjust DCT pressures and shifts as does the motec stand alone for the same car. Havent had the chance to use the COBB software on a BMW yet though
    Not yet.....I had questioned something near to this with them in an email. The question was about being able to adjust the RPM launch parameters as can be done with the GTR, they said it was on their road maps to do but not a priority. So in other words what I gathered from this is if the RPM LC parameters can be changed sure enough the bar pressure on the clutches can be increased.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Nugs Click here to enlarge
    I think he means not flooring it in too higher a gear or letting the transmission kick down itself when going WOT. You can get a big slip of the clutches when that happens. Always try to shift manually.
    I can see that possibility. Never experienced it myself.

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    That's because M3s have no torque Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why exactly is it more common on piggybacks?
    It would be futile for me to engage into this with you as you will try to defend / justify your client's product.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't know what you mean by the DCT slipping due to driver mod.
    Comon man....are you seriously asking me this question ?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Nugs Click here to enlarge
    I think he means not flooring it in too higher a gear or letting the transmission kick down itself when going WOT. You can get a big slip of the clutches when that happens. Always try to shift manually.
    This... plus not having the car prepped in sport+ mode, or overheating the DCT with improper launches. One big example is brake launching...a big no no for a N54 DCT.

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    It would be futile for me to engage into this with you as you will try to defend / justify your client's product.
    People here offer flash and piggyback tunes, what difference does it make to me? I'm asking you to explain your statement. If you can't, just say so.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    Comon man....are you seriously asking me this question ?
    Yes.

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  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Dinan badges are expensive.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why exactly is it more common on piggybacks?

    I don't know what you mean by the DCT slipping due to driver mod.
    The DME reports engine load to the trans controller, trans controller uses this info for plate pressure etc. with a piggyback, the DME reports stock load values because that is what it sees. Depending on the actual engine load, it could be producing enough torque to overcome the friction because the Trans controller is not increasing pressure (because it believes it is only attempting to hold stock torque levels)
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  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    The DME reports engine load to the trans controller, trans controller uses this info for plate pressure etc. with a piggyback, the DME reports stock load values because that is what it sees. Depending on the actual engine load, it could be producing enough torque to overcome the friction because the Trans controller is not increasing pressure (because it believes it is only attempting to hold stock torque levels)
    So isn't this where a backend flash would come in for the DCT specifically to raise the line pressure and clamping force?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So isn't this where a backend flash would come in for the DCT specifically to raise the line pressure and clamping force?
    Two ways to address it.
    1. Back end flash with raised load request values so the DME sees closer to actual engine load.
    2. Modify some other DME parameters that influence load/trans line pressure Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why exactly is it more common on piggybacks?

    I don't know what you mean by the DCT slipping due to driver mod.
    Short version, strict piggy back cars aren't communicating the proper (much higher) TQ values to the trans.

    Best way to address this car is run a flash map (which will communicate the proper TQ values to the trans), whether it's the only tune or stacked and just using the piggy as a boost/meth controller.
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    The complaints about dinan being a poor "bang for buck" are getting old. Everyone knows this. I agree, sticky, that steve should have used different words, etc. in his vid. I believe the dinan tax comes from the warranty and a g-power-esk, well-sorted kit. You're paying for the peace of mind that it's a "total package" that works. Its market is business men who want performance but want a peace of mind.

  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Short version, strict piggy back cars aren't communicating the proper (much higher) TQ values to the trans.

    Best way to address this car is run a flash map (which will communicate the proper TQ values to the trans), whether it's the only tune or stacked and just using the piggy as a boost/meth controller.
    Use the piggy as a meth controller or don't regardless each has pluses and minuses. Furthermore, not every trans is affected and not at every power level.

    DCT's are a separate ballgame and it's not like Dinan has the automatic trans figured out anyway which is probably convenient because he isn't making enough torque with any of his products to need to.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    There is nothing wrong with that and Dinan also has shown they are capable of building motors that power Grand-Am teams to victory in Motorsport so higher level skill is certainly there than what is displayed by the street car offerings.
    Ganassi dropped Dinan this year for his Daytona Prototypes, big hit for Steve. Ganassi has switched to Ford power, 3.5L twin turbo V6 Ecoboost.

    Dinan had trouble building a reliable S65 based engine for the series, switching from the very successful 5.0L. The 4.5L was quick when it stayed together, I think Chip had enough of the reliability concerns and pulled the plug. Although Steve is saying Chip just got a better deal from Ford.

    Steve Dinan is continuing his motorsports engine programs. Continuing development on the old 5.0L and the newer 4.5L (that is now actually 4.7L). Also working on the N20 for the ST class and new M3 TT6 motor for GS.

    They also have plans of P2 effort with the P65.

  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    Ganassi dropped Dinan this year for his Daytona Prototypes, big hit for Steve. Ganassi has switched to Ford power, 3.5L twin turbo V6 Ecoboost.
    I didn't know that! That's huge.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    Dinan had trouble building a reliable S65 based engine for the series, switching from the very successful 5.0L. The 4.5L was quick when it stayed together, I think Chip had enough of the reliability concerns and pulled the plug. Although Steve is saying Chip just got a better deal from Ford.
    The S65's won in their debut. I didn't follow the reliability of the Dinan motors, what happened?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    Steve Dinan is continuing his motorsports engine programs. Continuing development on the old 5.0L and the newer 4.5L (that is now actually 4.7L). Also working on the N20 for the ST class and new M3 TT6 motor for GS.

    They also have plans of P2 effort with the P65.
    Very good post and information.

    They took it to 4.7 too, interesting. Guess because they are rpm limited they wanted more torque.

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