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  1. #26
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    I agree that increased duration probably won't help much... as long as VANOS is tuned properly. Lift will help. Hell you could decrease duration and increase the lift slope (with right valvetrain) to get the most out of VANOS tuning.

    I can think of multiple theories in cam timing... which is best, only an intricate test engine setup could determine. Its an interesting subject and id be curious to hear the cam designers thoughts/goals.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    RE VANOS angles:

    "I've discovered that VANOS can adjust the angles of both camshafts from -72 degrees to +72 degrees. Its in INPA test conditions for VANOS solenoids for N54"

    someone on other forum.

    ED: and in your first post you say duration won't help a VANOS equipped motor.. of course it does.
    Tuning for VANOS seems to be all about adjusting the cam timing. @evolve is an expert in this area.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    I honestly think VTEC should be on all motors

    how does having a low end cam and a high end cam not just plain make sense if it can be done?

    lumpiest bastard ever on the high side, with factory idle and low end -_-
    It should be included simply so you can say VTEC kicked in when accelerating.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Tuning for VANOS seems to be all about adjusting the cam timing. @evolve is an expert in this area.
    Isn't VANOS just cam timing?

    and surely if it is, then if you increase duration (or well.. any cam specs at all), you're going to have to change where and when you set the VANOS points to, as it's breathing a lot differently.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It should be included simply so you can say VTEC kicked in when accelerating.
    Exactly!

    and get the BNGAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH noise.
    boop

  5. #30
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    aaand just noticed that was for some random 125cc motor? wat.

    however..

    http://ebookbrowsee.net/n55-engine-pdf-d413904063

    also makes my VANOS adjustment values a lie though lol (actually 55/45 deg of crankshaft it says)... that doc says intake is 245, exhaust is 261 duration.

    and just realized the person that said 72-72 degrees of vanos adjustment was you @vasillalov ... what's with the conflicting and strange stuff coming from you haha... first it was 72-72.. then it was 10-10 now it's actually 55 and 45 :/

    I must have been thinking of a different motor. Sorry guys. This was a complete brain fart on my behalf on the vanos angles. Click here to enlarge

    @Flinchy, I wish I could positively rep you more than once for digging up my own posts. I knew all this info about the vanos adjustment angles and somehow I still managed to write a bunch of gibberish yesterday. Click here to enlarge I am in Kiev on a business trip and 12 hour work days combined the jet lag are killing me
    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!
    Click here to enlarge

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    I must have been thinking of a different motor. Sorry guys. This was a complete brain fart on my behalf on the vanos angles. Click here to enlarge

    @Flinchy, I wish I could positively rep you more than once for digging up my own posts. I knew all this info about the vanos adjustment angles and somehow I still managed to write a bunch of gibberish yesterday. Click here to enlarge I am in Kiev on a business trip and 12 hour work days combined the jet lag are killing me
    haha didn't intentionally, just came up on google as i like second opinions... you're a prolific BMW forum user Click here to enlarge

    ouch @ the 12hr days, gotta do what you gotta do >_<
    boop

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Isn't VANOS just cam timing?
    Well it's variable valve timing but yeah it varies it by changing the position of the camshafts.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well it's variable valve timing but yeah it varies it by changing the position of the camshafts.
    ok yeah that makes more sense worded that way haha
    boop

  9. #34
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    i didnt see this thread originally but i wouldnt lie to you guys lol
    Click here to enlarge

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    i didnt see this thread originally but i wouldnt lie to you guys lol
    haha, I didn't not believe you (or i wouldn't have emailed) just wanted more details from the horses mouth Click here to enlarge
    boop

  11. #36
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    SCHRICK has 2 sets of cams in limited ammount

    http://www.schrick.com/index.php?article_id=6&nid=66ZYL-4V-N54

    0476A1521-00 252/119-?/10,65mm/0,0,32-?mm
    0476A1561-00 256/117-?/10,65mm/0,54-?mm
    0476E1501-00 234@1,0mm/117,2-?/10,0mm/0,55-?mm
    0476E1501-01 238@1,0mm/115-?/10,6mm/0,92-?mm

    what do you think about the duration/lift combination?
    BMW uses another method for cam duration, here it is counted from 1mm opening....

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by marconi118 Click here to enlarge
    SCHRICK has 2 sets of cams in limited ammount

    http://www.schrick.com/index.php?article_id=6&nid=66ZYL-4V-N54

    0476A1521-00 252/119-?/10,65mm/0,0,32-?mm
    0476A1561-00 256/117-?/10,65mm/0,54-?mm
    0476E1501-00 234@1,0mm/117,2-?/10,0mm/0,55-?mm
    0476E1501-01 238@1,0mm/115-?/10,6mm/0,92-?mm

    what do you think about the duration/lift combination?
    BMW uses another method for cam duration, here it is counted from 1mm opening....
    maybe it's something new.. but last time i asked about their cams labelled 'N54' it was a typo lol. i think they were actually for N52

    good news if they're actually available now!

    your link seems broken though?

    ED: same part no's as http://www.co-ordsport.com/attachmen...Price_List.pdf document

    i just checked my last emails to schrick.

    i can post screenshots, but this is one quote:

    The N54 engine is the Valvetronik engine, enclose picture..
    No, the n54 does not have valvetronic, only the n55 (single turbocharger) and n52 (naturally aspirated) have valvetronic... I believe you may have these mislabelled somehow?"

    Thanks again
    then the next email was

    The camshaft we have are for thist enginge see picture.
    a picture of an N52.

    more specifically:

    0476A1521-00 252/119-?/10,65mm/0,0,32-?mm
    0476E1501-00 234@1,0mm/117,2-?/10,0mm/0,55-?mm"

    also

    0476A1561-00 256/117-?/10,65mm/0,54-?mm

    and

    0476E1501-01 238@1,0mm/115-?/10,6mm/0,92-?mm

    those last two apparently weren't visible in the catalogue he had. very disorganized.

    aaand i believe are actually for a V8 from what i last worked out.

    sorry about that lol.

    no idea how to work out those durations either.
    boop

  13. #38
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    try again the link

    http://www.schrick.com/index.php?article_id=6&nid=6

    it is a limited production, they have some of them and will not make any new

    but maybe you are right it is mislabelled? error?

    Had a guy of schrick at the phone and said it is for N54, but seemed not really informed...

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by marconi118 Click here to enlarge
    try again the link

    http://www.schrick.com/index.php?article_id=6&nid=6

    it is a limited production, they have some of them and will not make any new

    but maybe you are right it is mislabelled? error?

    Had a guy of schrick at the phone and said it is for N54, but seemed not really informed...
    Thanks, that one worked!

    Strange they're limited production, they've been out for at least 12 months or so, so must not be popular haha.. Probably doesn't help that they appear to be mislabelled and no one knows what they're really for easily?

    Guy at schrick in email (Bernhard Schrder) told me they were for Valvetronic equipped motor with no direct injection (in pics at least)

    someone can try it out if they want, but sounds risky lol
    boop

  15. #40
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    I can supply any N54 cams you can dream of. We are CAT's biggest BMW dealer and main N American dealer.

    What do you guys want?

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    I can supply any N54 cams you can dream of. We are CAT's biggest BMW dealer and main N American dealer.

    What do you guys want?

    something comparable to an hks 272 or a gsc s1 i know both of those cams have very good gains and work very well with the size turbos people are running now

    i hate to post these because they are 2jz cams but i think these are some of the best cams you can buy when it comes to great gains on a mid sized turbos http://www.power-division.com/produc...cat=345&page=1
    Click here to enlarge

  17. #42
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    Hmm ok. If you guys want to get something going, I can put together a Group Buy of sorts if you wish.

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    Hmm ok. If you guys want to get something going, I can put together a Group Buy of sorts if you wish.
    id buy em......
    Click here to enlarge

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    I can supply any N54 cams you can dream of. We are CAT's biggest BMW dealer and main N American dealer.

    What do you guys want?
    Cat cams is the company that's developing them though?

    so it's great news if you're going to be stocking them anyway! Click here to enlarge

    What would be good?

    stock frames don't need much more in the way of midrange, but the turbo is the limit up high anyway, so something mild that keeps everything stock feeling just with gains there? What would single/big twin users want.. shift the powerband left or improve spool or a little of both? I'm sure some (people after good 1/4 numbers) would want more left mainly... track guys may want a bit more left and a bit more spool.. i don't even know if these things are mutually exclusive.. given how VANOS works, a huge lumpy duration at a guess, isn't even needed/could be tuned out, so.. would there be a spec that would benefit everything? more lift help?

    specific specs is the problem, how many companies have gone to the effort/are willing to go to the effort of testing, as what kinda customer wants to be a guinea pig?

    no one knows what specs are going to benefit what sized build on the N54 outside guessing for the most part no? short of a ton of calculations and flow testing at different head specs.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    id buy em......
    same! .. depending. especially at delicious GB price

    i wouldn't buy untested though, not in the business of throwing money away QUITE like that rofl.

    and as for the cams you posted.. well considering the N54's made 700+ easily on the stock cams, that should show it's really hard to compare specs given totally different tech and head design? Considering how VANOS works, a tiny bump in duration, easy to keep it like stock idle, stock drivability even without changes probably.. bump in lift all over for more flow, receive bacon?
    Last edited by Flinchy; 01-17-2014 at 12:42 AM.
    boop

  20. #45
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    Odds are, we will develop them with Catcams ;-)

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Cat cams is the company that's developing them though?

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    Odds are, we will develop them with Catcams ;-)
    ooh, so VAC will have some input into it possibly?

    that tickles my interest even more if that's a possibility!

    I'm sure there'd have to be a few others interested if it's worth it!
    boop

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    ooh, so VAC will have some input into it possibly?

    that tickles my interest even more if that's a possibility!

    I'm sure there'd have to be a few others interested if it's worth it!
    We have developed quite a few awesome Catcams combos for other BMW engines so this is no biggie. I think it's a bit early for N54 cams as people still haven't found the limits of the stock engine and despite the amount of N54s on the road very few are races, but there are some obvious signs that a lot can be picked up in the head :-)

  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    We have developed quite a few awesome Catcams combos for other BMW engines so this is no biggie. I think it's a bit early for N54 cams as people still haven't found the limits of the stock engine and despite the amount of N54s on the road very few are races, but there are some obvious signs that a lot can be picked up in the head :-)
    True,

    My opinion that if there's gains to be had, there's gains to be had so just do it. I'm sure some people will push to the limit THEN go bigger cams.. but the option still has to be there to do it no?

    There are already people pushing past 700whp, and more and more will be popping up in 2014... even slight gains will end up impressive on these builds, solid easy horsepower.

    Plus, the limits on the stock frame setups are pretty well set by now, so if cams can help there (as well as people slowly starting to do head work just as the above), all the better!

    Hopefully it's a 'build them and they'll come' sorta situation haha.

    Everyone keeps saying 'we don't need them yet' but want doesn't necessarily mean need Click here to enlarge
    boop

  24. #49
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    Wasn't RENNtech "building" N54 cams? And I agree with Mike, head work would be much more worthwhile. Look at the P-Car turbo guys, a lot of them port the heads, up the redline and run stock cams well over 1200 WHP. The very few guys that go all out usually just swap in the GT3's
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  25. #50
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    Headwork OR cams? Why not both!

    I remember the renntech cam stuff, i think they moved onto benz stuff though more focused?
    boop

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