Close

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,249
    Rep Points
    32,700.6
    Mentioned
    2130 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No

    N63 versus N63TU part II - Aftermarket downpipes hurting performance? Factory ECU reducing boost over 5000 rpm?

    A couple of weeks ago BimmerBoost published Dynojet results from BMS (Burger Tuning) showing the baseline difference between an N63 V8 in a 550i and the updated N63TU V8 rated at 45 more horsepower in a 2014 550i. The N63TU showed less power than the N63 V8 even though BMW rated it at 45 less horsepower. The caveat is that the 2014 550i had aftermarket catless downpipes and those seemed to be causing a power loss.

    BMS did further testing on a 2014 550i that had the stock exhaust pieces in place and the results below 4500 rpm were about the same. Above this RPM though the car without downpipes showed more power. The power once tuned however is about the same between the two.

    Here is a Dynojet graph comparing a 2011 N63 based 550i and a 2014 N63TU based 550i both with stock downpipes. The N63TU shows a smoother torque curve and a good amount more torque especially from 2700 to 4500 rpm:

    Click here to enlarge

    Here are the N63TU tuned values on the 550i with the stock downpipes (transmission shifting issues prevented dyno measurements before 4000 rpm from being picked up:

    Click here to enlarge

    Here is the tuned N63TU with aftermarket downpipes from before showing slightly more torque although slightly less peak horsepower than the car without aftermarket downpipes:

    Click here to enlarge

    What is the explanation? BMS states the factory ECU is reducing boost in both stock and tuned form above 5000 rpm. Why? That is anyone's guess. BMW seems to have designed to the ECU to reduce its boost target in that RPM range. It is going to take further tuning to eliminate this and at that point aftermarket downpipes should show gains but as of right now the ECU is reducing boost stock, tuned, downpipes, etc.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,155
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    i actually ran slower times with my Catted AR down pipes so i had to bring the boost up to match my previous times with out the down pipes.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,212
    Rep Points
    9,337.7
    Mentioned
    653 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    94


    Yes Reputation No
    There is definitely something going on with that particular n63tu downpipe car's top end boost. I can't be sure it's downpipe related and since he's the first n63tu with downpipes we've tested I suggested he remove them for a follow up dyno just to be sure.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,155
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    My 3 inch exhaust going on this week will redyno on same mustang dyno as before.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,249
    Rep Points
    32,700.6
    Mentioned
    2130 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    There is definitely something going on with that particular n63tu downpipe car's top end boost. I can't be sure it's downpipe related and since he's the first n63tu with downpipes we've tested I suggested he remove them for a follow up dyno just to be sure.
    But what exactly is going on?

    Also why aren't the downpipes showing gains even once tuned?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    613
    Rep Points
    812.6
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    9


    Yes Reputation No
    Terry@BMS, what's the downtime for switching downpipes on that motor?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,249
    Rep Points
    32,700.6
    Mentioned
    2130 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328



    Yes Reputation No

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,155
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    Terry, what's the downtime for switching downpipes on that motor?
    3-4 hours i had mine done

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,212
    Rep Points
    9,337.7
    Mentioned
    653 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    94


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    Terry@BMS, what's the downtime for switching downpipes on that motor?
    I've not done the job myself so I really have no idea. I imagine a good 3-4hrs of labor though.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    613
    Rep Points
    812.6
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    9


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blkclk550 Click here to enlarge
    3-4 hours i had mine done
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I've not done the job myself so I really have no idea. I imagine a good 3-4hrs of labor though.
    Thanks guys

    Click here to enlarge

    /
    //A L E X A N D R E 1983 Photography///ALX1983.COM

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    8
    Rep Points
    7.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    does any of this happen to the S63? I have the AR catted DPs and ESS tune

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,249
    Rep Points
    32,700.6
    Mentioned
    2130 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 330i ZHP Click here to enlarge
    does any of this happen to the S63? I have the AR catted DPs and ESS tune
    The S63 pushes much higher boost targets so the downpipes seem to be a much higher point of restriction.
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    8
    Rep Points
    7.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The S63 pushes much higher boost targets so the downpipes seem to be a much higher point of restriction.
    Does that mean, YES, the DPs are causing a restriction?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,249
    Rep Points
    32,700.6
    Mentioned
    2130 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 330i ZHP Click here to enlarge
    Does that mean, YES, the DPs are causing a restriction?
    Yes. Did you see this?

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...r-on-a-Dynojet
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1
    Rep Points
    2.1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Did we ever find out why boost was dropping off on the N63tu motor with catless dp?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,249
    Rep Points
    32,700.6
    Mentioned
    2130 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackBear Click here to enlarge
    Did we ever find out why boost was dropping off on the N63tu motor with catless dp?
    I don't know @Terry@BMS

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Denmark, Copenhagen
    Posts
    590
    Rep Points
    551.4
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Yes Reputation No
    Not sure if someone found out, but my best guess would be the backpressure sensor detecting less backpressure which will make it boost less. I think the ECU lowers the target boost - not sure, but that sounds suitable LOL.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,249
    Rep Points
    32,700.6
    Mentioned
    2130 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lfelunden Click here to enlarge
    Not sure if someone found out, but my best guess would be the backpressure sensor detecting less backpressure which will make it boost less. I think the ECU lowers the target boost - not sure, but that sounds suitable LOL.
    Guess the sensor can't be disabled or it needs to be there for the ECU to adjust boost based on elevation/atmospheric conditions?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Denmark, Copenhagen
    Posts
    590
    Rep Points
    551.4
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Guess the sensor can't be disabled or it needs to be there for the ECU to adjust boost based on elevation/atmospheric conditions?
    Well, with the new "era" of ECU tuning, installing a DP won't hurt performance Click here to enlarge BMW is really the crappiest company when it comes to enthusiastic people.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,249
    Rep Points
    32,700.6
    Mentioned
    2130 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lfelunden Click here to enlarge
    BMW is really the crappiest company when it comes to enthusiastic people.
    I've grown to hate them.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Denmark, Copenhagen
    Posts
    590
    Rep Points
    551.4
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I've grown to hate them.
    I just read an article about the last "30 Jahre M5" sold for $700000 WTF?!!! They added an exhaust, put in some sloppy details and cranked boost up 0.2 bar - 600HP oh my oh my... Come on, get a regular M5 F10 + tune, it will eat i all day long for 1/10th of the price lols. "Made for TRUE enthusiasts" BMW killed it with that phrase.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,249
    Rep Points
    32,700.6
    Mentioned
    2130 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lfelunden Click here to enlarge
    I just read an article about the last "30 Jahre M5" sold for $700000 WTF?!!! They added an exhaust, put in some sloppy details and cranked boost up 0.2 bar - 600HP oh my oh my... Come on, get a regular M5 F10 + tune, it will eat i all day long for 1/10th of the price lols. "Made for TRUE enthusiasts" BMW killed it with that phrase.
    If someone is stupid enough to pay it then let them. I don't know if I believe anyone is truly that stupid though.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Denmark, Copenhagen
    Posts
    590
    Rep Points
    551.4
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    If someone is stupid enough to pay it then let them. I don't know if I believe anyone is truly that stupid though.
    I'm sure he's pretty Rich (NO idea who he is - I'm in Europe!)
    http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/01/19/la...rick-hendrick/

    OMG! Just found it for 1/4th of the price "last 30th edition"

    http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat...=EXPORT&noec=1
    Last edited by lfelunden; 01-20-2015 at 07:26 AM. Reason: LINK!

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,249
    Rep Points
    32,700.6
    Mentioned
    2130 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328



    Yes Reputation No
    Oh yeah Hendrick of Hendrick Motorsports. Yeah that's more a publicity thing than anything else.

    Barret Jackson has all kinds of inflated auctions on garbage. It's all about getting people all worked and wanting to overpay for stuff.

    I remember one time they stopped the auction to help someone inflate a price on some truckasaurus thing that wasn't selling too well. One of the owners bid on it to help fuel the fire. Just a joke.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Denmark, Copenhagen
    Posts
    590
    Rep Points
    551.4
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Oh yeah Hendrick of Hendrick Motorsports. Yeah that's more a publicity thing than anything else.

    Barret Jackson has all kinds of inflated auctions on garbage. It's all about getting people all worked and wanting to overpay for stuff.

    I remember one time they stopped the auction to help someone inflate a price on some truckasaurus thing that wasn't selling too well. One of the owners bid on it to help fuel the fire. Just a joke.
    I don't minding buying a 30 Jahre M5 and selling it for 4 times the price. Well, I guess he just wanted to state "I'm here!"

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •