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  1. #101
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    guys dont forget breaking things as a part of the manufacturing costs, a broken gearbox or engine can cost tens of thousands of dollars on a car this, and remember there is a very small audience to recoup costs on compared to a camaro or something like that

  2. #102
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, I appreciate your effort in swaying me, but again, I just disagree.

    1) I never even tried comparing it to an N54, and whether the car starts off N/A or not, that's only a tuning challenge, there are no stock parts left on an N54 that had to do with it being a stock TT car that is still used on a stage 3. I mean, everything from boost solenoid, sensors, you name it.

    2) My point is, this "R&D" cost is mostly BS. Most shops have a car that the owner or someone that works there wanted anyway and uses as a personal car, or they use a customer's car willing to leave their car at the shop in trade for a discount for the kit being done, so not going to count any cost of the actual car toward R&D. It comes down to actual parts and physical labor hours to produce the kit. Every car has its unique challenges. $150k? Give me a break, where are you pulling this number? Turbos are from whatever company, FMIC, BOV, only custom parts are the piping, and custom shops that know what they're doing won't need to test fit 100 times to get something right. So the only "repetitive" custom made parts are the hots parts, so material plus cost of labor hours to pay someone to work on it, and I'd hope it doesn't take that person more than a few attempts to figure out fitment. Just look at the n54 kits, you have Vargas who's been working on a kit for how long? CPe working on a kit for how long? FFtec is only company to have a product out, and besides one glory car, every other car they've built has been out-performed by one-off builds. The current 6AT record holder had his built by a shop who had no experience on the car and they built the kit in 2 months. So how can they do this and no one else can? (yes fully ported SS tig welded kit, my car is at that shop now)

    You can make any argument you want, but you just won't convince me the cost is justified, and also keep in mind, my figures are all taking into consideration of what I feel would be expected cost for Sticky to pay. Why pay for all the R&D on a kit that hasn't even been out on the streets and proven? That would make no sense.
    please keep in mind we built our stage 3 kit from start to finish in about 3-4 months. This is a kit mutiple people said was not possible to build, we ran it and broke every record while doing so, if I didn't post in public that the fuel rail needed addressing the Vishnu fftec guys would still he scratching their heads avd running 4 huge meth nozzles to make 650. Only stage 3 kit only stalled out when we took it to production. If we wanted to build a single turbo one off kit that made 750WHP, we could do so in a month. One offs are easy, production is tough. Keep in mind we have been involved in the N54 platform for a little over a year and have already accomplished quite a bit more than people who hand been in it since 2007.

  3. #103
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    please keep in mind we built our stage 3 kit from start to finish in about 3-4 months. This is a kit mutiple people said was not possible to build, we ran it and broke every record while doing so, if I didn't post in public that the fuel rail needed addressing the Vishnu fftec guys would still he scratching their heads avd running 4 huge meth nozzles to make 650. Only stage 3 kit only stalled out when we took it to production. If we wanted to build a single turbo one off kit that made 750WHP, we could do so in a month. One offs are easy, production is tough. Keep in mind we have been involved in the N54 platform for a little over a year and have already accomplished quite a bit more than people who hand been in it since 2007.
    Yeah, I agree, and to be honest it wasn't you I had in mind, as I have kept up to date and completely understand why you have been delayed, which just absolutely sucks what happened with that shop, but hey, it happens. You were also open about improving the kit during the production process.

    I guess my question is, if you could do a one-off kit in a month what about it would be different than the production version? I'm honestly asking cause I'm curious. I'm sure you'll have some parts made in "bulk" to be sold with every kit with VTT logos and stuff right?
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  4. #104
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Sigh, seriously, you don't post updates and people ask for updates every other day, you do post updates on progress you are misleading people. So old at this point.
    With all due respect, both Vargas and Gintani posted about creating turbo kits for their respected platforms well before these kits were into production and even tested.

    Threads were started and dates were communicated and of course dates were missed. What I am saying is, keep these bloody projects quiet, do not communicate to the public at all, then when they are complete, make the announcement and release them.

    Hyping them before even the first CAD drawings are created to me is a great way to set expectations and immediately not live up to them.
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  5. #105
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge
    With all due respect, both Vargas and Gintani posted about creating turbo kits for their respected platforms well before these kits were into production and even tested.

    Threads were started and dates were communicated and of course dates were missed. What I am saying is, keep these bloody projects quiet, do not communicate to the public at all, then when they are complete, make the announcement and release them.

    Hyping them before even the first CAD drawings are created to me is a great way to set expectations and immediately not live up to them.
    We're here to talk about cars and upgrades. Kind of boring if we don't talk about what can or will not be done.

    How about instead of them being quiet you let them work and don't criticize them pointlessly for doing what people want to see?

  6. #106
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Not to be a downer, but turbos aren't superchargers, running a garrett turbo that is efficient at 20+ psi at 7.5 psi has it so far out of its efficiency range it's a little silly, the turbo is barely I mean barely spooling and the gate is open, for that low of boost I would never run turbos, would go supercharger everytime for anything under 12 psi.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    That is true, but it's always seemed different with NA cars going to turbos. Most of the TT corvette kits are 6 psi too which always gets to me too. I'm guessing the VE with the motors are different with the revs and how it is idk..
    +1. The Stock Motor TT-Gallardo kits run 5-6 psi on 93 pump & then 8-9 on 109+ Race Gas. And on the UGR kits, 5-6 psi puts you ~700 WHP and 8-9 sends you to ~900 WHP.
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  7. #107
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    We're here to talk about cars and upgrades. Kind of boring if we don't talk about what can or will not be done.

    How about instead of them being quiet you let them work and don't criticize them pointlessly for doing what people want to see?
    I criticize because in most cases they take people's money during this process and leave them hanging for months and in some cases years. I also criticize because they communicate dates and rarely if ever live up to them. I would have less of a beef if they 'announced' they were working on a project, and to your point, show progress without providing dates because as we all know many discoveries are made along the way which set back timelines.
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  8. #108
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge
    I criticize because in most cases they take people's money during this process and leave them hanging for months and in some cases years. I also criticize because they communicate dates and rarely if ever live up to them. I would have less of a beef if they 'announced' they were working on a project, and to your point, show progress without providing dates because as we all know many discoveries are made along the way which set back timelines.
    If there's one thing I've learned from watching these forums for years it's that there is no way to please everyone and that nobody is forcing anyone to spend their money.

  9. #109
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by undercover Click here to enlarge
    @LostMarine will be back in 9 days. I'll scope the cam and crank trigger to see what we can do. The good news about the e9x is we have just enough h bridges to control throttle and twin vanosClick here to enlarge


    Great Job Guys!!!!
    bringing it up Tuesday for ya Click here to enlarge

  10. #110
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    There's a guy with a stroker YSI and a manual who will give me a run for raw power output.
    Are you talking about the car AA is working on?
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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  11. #111
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    bringing it up Tuesday for ya Click here to enlarge
    ��
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    I probably run as much boost as you do fuel pressure

  12. #112
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    Shops R&D costs should not be pushed onto the customer or even brought up as to why these parts are soooo expensive. I been hearing this alot lately. This is a cost of doing/owning a business; get over it.

    It's the people willing to pay exorbitant amounts that set the stage for pricing.

    Also the infamouse BMW and also M tax. It's crazy what shops are selling parts for.

    $#@! I could open a shop just building Lambo/Ferrari exhaust and (if demand is there) retire on welding pipes together

  13. #113
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by s65e90 Click here to enlarge
    Shops R&D costs should not be pushed onto the customer or even brought up as to why these parts are soooo expensive. I been hearing this alot lately. This is a cost of doing/owning a business; get over it.

    It's the people willing to pay exorbitant amounts that set the stage for pricing.

    Also the infamouse BMW and also M tax. It's crazy what shops are selling parts for.

    $#@! I could open a shop just building Lambo/Ferrari exhaust and (if demand is there) retire on welding pipes together
    Yes its that easy, open up said Exotic exhaust building shop and let us know how long it takes you to retire. I love when people who don't a run a business let everyone know how easy it is.

  14. #114
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    you're assuming I'm not self employed (I am).

    I know it takes hard work, but how many x pipes need to be sold at 2k a pop before we call R&D costs for mandrel bending some pipe

  15. #115
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by s65e90 Click here to enlarge
    you're assuming I'm not self employed (I am). Click here to enlarge

    I know it takes hard work, but how many x pipes need to be sold at 2k a pop before we call R&D costs for mandrel bending some pipe
    R&D cost just gets wrapped up in the price of the product you are selling, if you price things right it all comes out fine. So lets hear what type of a business you run, just curious.

  16. #116
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    R&D cost just gets wrapped up in the price of the product you are selling, if you price things right it all comes out fine. So lets hear what type of a business you run, just curious.
    I understand and am not knocking most things; but when you compare the cost of an x-pipe for let's say a Mustang versus a similar piece for the m3 there's really not justification for the pricepoint other than the types of customers owning an M car are willing to pay a premium as most won't seek other alternatives.

    There's no reason at all that a full exhaust should be @ $3k! But it's the price we pay.

    (I'm not here to advertise my business either; maybe another day)

  17. #117
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by s65e90 Click here to enlarge
    I understand and am not knocking most things; but when you compare the cost of an x-pipe for let's say a Mustang versus a similar piece for the m3 there's really not justification for the pricepoint other than the types of customers owning an M car are willing to pay a premium as most won't seek other alternatives.
    Market Share & Clientele are what screw Euro owners.... It's not like there's a huge difference in cost of production, but because there are so many less of us modifying our cars (compared to Mustangs/Corvettes/etc), products have to be sold at 25% additional markup (random number) for the product to be considered profitable.
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  18. #118
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Are you talking about the car AA is working on?
    No.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No.
    The car is beast, can't wait until AA lets it out of the bag, it will definitely compete with you. Too bad so far away.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    The car is beast, can't wait until AA lets it out of the bag, it will definitely compete with you. Too bad so far away.
    Only DCT cars with the same sized blower will be able to compete.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Only DCT cars with the same sized blower will be able to compete.
    And? When I was there last summer it had put down 775whp, now as Andrew said they were doing cams and some other stuff. Should be interesting. I think it's a vortech, not sure. I honestly can't remember if t was DCT but I think so. Anyway, while I was there I couldn't help but check it out, it was just chillin under a tent outside lol...I go what's up with this ride? "oh, not much, just a built motor, putting down high 700's right now..." lol
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    And? When I was there last summer it had put down 775whp, now as Andrew said they were doing cams and some other stuff. Should be interesting. I think it's a vortech, not sure. I honestly can't remember if t was DCT but I think so. Anyway, while I was there I couldn't help but check it out, it was just chillin under a tent outside lol...I go what's up with this ride? "oh, not much, just a built motor, putting down high 700's right now..." lol
    Same response. And?

    I just want one clean pull at 18.5 psi to show people how much power it really was making. I hope I get that soon.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    There's a guy with a stroker YSI and a manual who will give me a run for raw power output.
    PG?

  24. #124
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    PG?
    LOL no.
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  25. #125
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    PG?
    No, this is a Gintani 4.5L Stroker/YSI on a 6MT E92
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