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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlownE92M3 Click here to enlarge
    The whole tune/software thing is bogus from ESS. Roman refused to assist myself and AR design when we originally decided to go with the 650 kit. We managed a pathetic 520hp and 6psi (due to 6000ft) elevation, and when asked, we were told anything else would cause the car to run very lean and unsafe. Well, we made some inhouse changes to the hardware, boost up to 9psi and the DME/tune adapts and added the fuel as needed.
    Similar situation here; Denver area. Probably 99% of their customer base is closer to sea level.
    So, we do what we need to do, get the lecture and dismissal from Roman, and move on.


  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by normcaldwell Click here to enlarge
    Similar situation here; Denver area. Probably 99% of their customer base is closer to sea level.
    So, we do what we need to do, get the lecture and dismissal from Roman, and move on.
    If this is now common knowledge , I do not see why anyone would want to purchase products from them..

    Not because of OPs situation but not backing people with special needs..
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  3. #28
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    I feel bad for the OP, but being a shop owner that had made many turbo kits for people, whether one off or multiples that increase the power potential of the engines two sometimes three fold. The power is intoxicating, but only for so long, then people slowly start itching for more. Usually its the magic of the MBC, or EBC you just turn up a few more PSI and voila your itch is scratched with some more power, for SC kit you do it with the pulleys, what they do not realize is, there is a ceiling and once they cross it, its usually a broken ring land or hole in the block they find themselves with. This usually occurs when customers who really have no business turning up the boost do so, either to scratch the itch or because they plan to run a street race, or race event. In either scenario how can the kit manufacture be held responsible if OP blows up the their engine? From what I have read here on both sides, it seems the customer was told in advance what boost to run and he ran what he wanted with possible questionable tuning. That is the perfect recipe for 3 blown motors, cut and dry.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    For real? They guy that had a build thread last year on M3post? I think he finally got a perma-ban on BP for continuous bashing of Gintani.

    Karma
    He (M33) was on a temp ban, posted this update to his VT3 build (8/13/2013) and then was put on a permabanned

    I know its been some time since I posted about my build but basically the motor was complete and broken in, we were trying a different fuel system outside what ESS recommended and what Drew was running which in theory was a simple design but not a good one , with that being said I ended up melting a spark plug which scored the cylinder wall. The motor was pulled out & opened up to only find that the block needed to be bore'd .5mm over along with having to order new custom sized pistons from Mahle.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I feel bad for the OP, but being a shop owner that had made many turbo kits for people, whether one off or multiples that increase the power potential of the engines two sometimes three fold. The power is intoxicating, but only for so long, then people slowly start itching for more. Usually its the magic of the MBC, or EBC you just turn up a few more PSI and voila your itch is scratched with some more power, for SC kit you do it with the pulleys, what they do not realize is, there is a ceiling and once they cross it, its usually a broken ring land or hole in the block they find themselves with. This usually occurs when customers who really have no business turning up the boost do so, either to scratch the itch or because they plan to run a street race, or race event. In either scenario how can the kit manufacture be held responsible if OP blows up the their engine? From what I have read here on both sides, it seems the customer was told in advance what boost to run and he ran what he wanted with possible questionable tuning. That is the perfect recipe for 3 blown motors, cut and dry.
    I mean, you're at least a hardware provider. You're not a tuner and from what I know, you're not building motors combined with your turbo setups. While the owner def should be held at full blame if he was upping pulleys beyond what was recommended, I feel that ESS is at some fault for releasing an incomplete build back into the owners' hands. But I remember that back in the past, ESS has had some "issues" with pulley sizing/boost and what they advertise vs. what some people are running.
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  5. #30
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    Reading the thread it seems like it's turned into finger pointing, OP vs. ESS. OP blaming ESS for selling a junk product that failed, and ESS blaming the OP for modifying their product/ignorant owner.
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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Reading the thread it seems like it's turned into finger pointing, OP vs. ESS. OP blaming ESS for selling a junk product that failed, and ESS blaming the OP for modifying their product/ignorant owner.
    I can agree if the car was not fully tested, you never turn it back over to the OP unless they have agreed before hand to be part of a testing program and all those bases are covered. I have just seen to many blown motors from boost greed to blame a kit for blowing a motor, including some of my own....Click here to enlarge

  7. #32
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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Well well, with the amount of VT3's out there they are at like a 50% success rate, lol

  8. #33
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    ^LMAO that's true..... For all the bragging ESS does about the VT3 setup, you figure it'd be A) a little more reliable and B) more sorted out.

    You've got Drew who's regularly entering the car in Shift Sector events, and complaining that the manifold was lifting off. The AFR data posted by BLUDVL on his 683 WHP dyno is pretty hideous (car runs closer to 13 until 6.5-7.6k it runs 12.5, and above that it finally his 12).

    It's a shame Gintani hasn't released more Stage 3/Built Motor Data, but I'm sure Sticky will provide plenty of dyno/performance data on his YSI S65 once it's 100%.... Or we'll just wait for the guy here on the East Coast with the same setup (6MT) to finish his break-in and run full boost in the spring Click here to enlarge
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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

    2007 e92 Mont. Blue 335i | 6MT | COBB Tuned | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Helix FMIC | AA DPs | HKS Exhaust | DCI | Stett CP w/ Forged DVs | KWv2 Coilovers | UUC Sway Bars & SSK | HPF Stg 2 Clutch | HFS-4 | M3 Suspension Bits | DEFIVfab Diff Lockdown Kit | Stoptech Trophy BBK

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by IMHOWTFFTW Click here to enlarge
    Well well, with the amount of VT3's out there they are at like a 50% success rate, lol
    Less than that. 3 of 4 known are blown, the 4th has consistent "issues" and never at full strength. Thats under 25%

    Gintani on the other hand is about 75% success, u have the car from here that runs but has no trans to hold it, and then the built car near me thats been driven
    On break in tune for the last 2 months

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Less than that. 3 of 4 known are blown, the 4th has consistent "issues" and never at full strength. Thats under 25%

    Gintani on the other hand is about 75% success, u have the car from here that runs but has no trans to hold it, and then the built car near me thats been driven
    On break in tune for the last 2 months
    Hopefully AA will let some info out on there YSI s65 and yes i wanna see Gintani motors make some power and shut some people up.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ging Click here to enlarge
    Hopefully AA will let some info out on there YSI s65 and yes i wanna see Gintani motors make some power and shut some people up.
    I personally want to see everyone up and running and going all out, ess, aa gintani. I care about the owners getting what they paid for and enjoying their cars.

    Tuner wars are for douchebags with ego's.

  13. #38
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Roman:

    Some early 650 kits ran 97mm top side and some had different crank sizes. There were also some early 650's that ran the stock crank and smaller SC pulley. The current kit with it's current provided crank pulley runs a 99mm SC pulley. Dispite the configuration as long as you are making 8 psi that is all that matters.
    Comments like this clearly show the underhanded and widespread use of a variety of different spec kits they sold. IMHO that statement right there justifies all the shady practices they have been accused of doing for years as far as what pulleys run what psi and produce what horsepower.. shameful how they do business, but glad its all coming to light

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GearHead03 Click here to enlarge
    Comments like this clearly show the underhanded and widespread use of a variety of different spec kits they sold. IMHO that statement right there justifies all the shady practices they have been accused of doing for years as far as what pulleys run what psi and produce what horsepower.. shameful how they do business, but glad its all coming to light
    Wow, just wow on this comment. I have no knowledge of anything ESS, nor anyone within the compan,y or any of their products, but as kits are produced over time, you learn and things change, just like with turbo kits. You can do a redesign of say a manifold or piping if you find you can get better results with a different set up. Take the FFTEC turbo kits for example, they are now on their 3rd manifold revision for the kit, does this make them shady, and underhanded? Of course not, it just means that their first go worked, but they decided a redesign would make the kit even better. Nothing wrong with that, so some early ESS kits had a different pulley, and some of the cranks were different in the early kits than the later ones. That is pretty basic kit building, as you learn you progress and make changes as you progress. So since BMW had to redesign the HPFP some 4-5 times to finally get one that worked to everyones satisfaction all while they were in use on customers cars, they are shady and underhanded? As I said I have no idea who ESS really is from a business stand point, but changing things from early kits to later ones, in no way makes a shop, shady or underhanded. Period.

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Wow, just wow on this comment. I have no knowledge of anything ESS, nor anyone within the compan,y or any of their products, but as kits are produced over time, you learn and things change, just like with turbo kits. You can do a redesign of say a manifold or piping if you find you can get better results with a different set up. Take the FFTEC turbo kits for example, they are now on their 3rd manifold revision for the kit, does this make them shady, and underhanded? Of course not, it just means that their first go worked, but they decided a redesign would make the kit even better. Nothing wrong with that, so some early ESS kits had a different pulley, and some of the cranks were different in the early kits than the later ones. That is pretty basic kit building, as you learn you progress and make changes as you progress. So since BMW had to redesign the HPFP some 4-5 times to finally get one that worked to everyones satisfaction all while they were in use on customers cars, they are shady and underhanded? As I said I have no idea who ESS really is from a business stand point, but changing things from early kits to later ones, in no way makes a shop, shady or underhanded. Period.
    It does when it has been brought up by users and forum go'ers, and then violently denied that they ONLY sell a certain spec/size pulley setup for a certain kit.

    Well here you are now with them saying they HAVE used various sizes of different pulleys, you have actual customers questioning why they have one size on their car, when the owner of the company stated they should have another. Then they back track and say it was all revisions and they are "fine". All while in the context of claiming another customer is out of warranty for overboosting when in fact he says that the owner again said via email that he was ok to run "A" spec pulleys for his setup.

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    Oh I can tell you AA is on it Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ging Click here to enlarge
    Hopefully AA will let some info out on there YSI s65 and yes i wanna see Gintani motors make some power and shut some people up.

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    Click here to enlarge



    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Less than that. 3 of 4 known are blown, the 4th has consistent "issues" and never at full strength. Thats under 25%

    Gintani on the other hand is about 75% success, u have the car from here that runs but has no trans to hold it, and then the built car near me thats been driven
    On break in tune for the last 2 months

  18. #43
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    You must go back few years and search all related topics on ESS pulleys, and then make an informed comment.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Wow, just wow on this comment. I have no knowledge of anything ESS, nor anyone within the compan,y or any of their products, but as kits are produced over time, you learn and things change, just like with turbo kits. You can do a redesign of say a manifold or piping if you find you can get better results with a different set up. Take the FFTEC turbo kits for example, they are now on their 3rd manifold revision for the kit, does this make them shady, and underhanded? Of course not, it just means that their first go worked, but they decided a redesign would make the kit even better. Nothing wrong with that, so some early ESS kits had a different pulley, and some of the cranks were different in the early kits than the later ones. That is pretty basic kit building, as you learn you progress and make changes as you progress. So since BMW had to redesign the HPFP some 4-5 times to finally get one that worked to everyones satisfaction all while they were in use on customers cars, they are shady and underhanded? As I said I have no idea who ESS really is from a business stand point, but changing things from early kits to later ones, in no way makes a shop, shady or underhanded. Period.

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    You've got Drew who's regularly entering the car in Shift Sector events, and complaining that the manifold was lifting off. The AFR data posted by BLUDVL on his 683 WHP dyno is pretty hideous (car runs closer to 13 until 6.5-7.6k it runs 12.5, and above that it finally his 12).
    I'm going on a Dyno day with Drew and a couple of other guys as well. @alpinedevil335i Should be in with me on that day. I don't think there should be any excuses, but I have seen what Drews car can do and it's a pretty fast car LOL.
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ging Click here to enlarge
    Hopefully AA will let some info out on there YSI s65 and yes i wanna see Gintani motors make some power and shut some people up.
    The car is down right now while we install some cams Click here to enlarge

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    Breathe in breathe out! Click here to enlarge


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    The car is down right now while we install some cams Click here to enlarge

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    The car is down right now while we install some cams Click here to enlarge
    Schrick's or AA FI custom?
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  23. #48
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    I am sorry; but, I see this as a negligent owner. His first motor worked for 50k hard miles. Then it broke. He never states why it broke. All he says is

    “at 67,000 miles the engine decided to blow... Piston is 7th cylinder was broken somehow and 3 inches hole appeared in the block...”

    Motor number 2 breaks at shortly after install. A second catastrophic failure not long after running the motor with more boost for a race.

    At this point, he has not stated why either motor broke. He also did not give any info on the tear downs of the broken motors. Was there a blown head gasket, an overly lean condition, etc.

    So motor 3 is built.

    • This is a race motor. Sorry, I have NEVER once gotten a warranty on a race motor.
    • He is aware the car is not fully tested.
    • He knows this is a high boost set up.
    • Identifies a fuel issue and continues to drive it. (“up to 270 KPH” – about 165MPH)
    • After 400 miles of driving with fuel issue, finds #4 plug melted and low compression in #4 cylinder. He continues to drive.
      • The car was running sooo clean that day on mid RPMS and fast driving!!! So, I decided to go full throttle…
      • 1st run from 3rd gear from 40 to 230 kmh was clean and the time from 100 to 200 kmh

    • Drives 15 miles to the dealer
    • Finds melted plug in cylinder 4 and lower compression AGAIN!!


    If I was ESS, I would not be inclined to give this person too much support. He had multiple opportunities to put the car on the trailer and figure out what the problem was. He know there was a problem. Instead, he drove over 400 miles and made multiple hard runs. I am not surprised the motor broke.
    He claims that the cause of the motor breaking was detonation. I would say that is a good bet.
    Know fuel issue + hard driving + supercharger = boom

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Brian425 Click here to enlarge
    I am sorry; but, I see this as a negligent owner. His first motor worked for 50k hard miles. Then it broke. He never states why it broke. All he says is

    “at 67,000 miles the engine decided to blow... Piston is 7th cylinder was broken somehow and 3 inches hole appeared in the block...”

    Motor number 2 breaks at shortly after install. A second catastrophic failure not long after running the motor with more boost for a race.

    At this point, he has not stated why either motor broke. He also did not give any info on the tear downs of the broken motors. Was there a blown head gasket, an overly lean condition, etc.

    So motor 3 is built.

    • This is a race motor. Sorry, I have NEVER once gotten a warranty on a race motor.
    • He is aware the car is not fully tested.
    • He knows this is a high boost set up.
    • Identifies a fuel issue and continues to drive it. (“up to 270 KPH” – about 165MPH)
    • After 400 miles of driving with fuel issue, finds #4 plug melted and low compression in #4 cylinder. He continues to drive.
      • The car was running sooo clean that day on mid RPMS and fast driving!!! So, I decided to go full throttle…
      • 1st run from 3rd gear from 40 to 230 kmh was clean and the time from 100 to 200 kmh

    • Drives 15 miles to the dealer
    • Finds melted plug in cylinder 4 and lower compression AGAIN!!


    If I was ESS, I would not be inclined to give this person too much support. He had multiple opportunities to put the car on the trailer and figure out what the problem was. He know there was a problem. Instead, he drove over 400 miles and made multiple hard runs. I am not surprised the motor broke.
    He claims that the cause of the motor breaking was detonation. I would say that is a good bet.
    Know fuel issue + hard driving + supercharger = boom
    I pretty much agree with this hands down, sure maybe the shop could have been a little more helpful. But honestly the guy basically states he drove the car with known fuel issues over 150 MPH and high boost and wonders why it broke?

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    what ever happened to tighties and eugenes motors? i believe they both parted them out..are they still running in someone elses car?
    m3

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