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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Of course. And considering the number of times he has made it there, his record is nothing short of pitiful. I cannot think of a single signature peyton manning led playoff victory, maybe when he smoked the chiefs in 04. Even his SB victory he played a decidedly “meh” game.

    Look he’s a HOF’er, one of the best ever. No denying that. But we’re basically talking about the greatest of all time, no? No way I’m giving that title to someone with such a feeble record of winning and playing well when it matters most.
    It's pitiful to be in the playoffs basically every year?

    You can't think of a single Peyton Manning led playoff victory? So when he smoked the Pats to get to the superbowl that was, what, not him?

    Peyton is the greatest of all time. A small sample size of playoff games doesn't change anything especially considering he already has won a superbowl showing that statistic to be meaningless.

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Why do I even bother. You guy are right: the guy who choked more in big games, has less championships, and a losing record(vs. brady) is better(than brady). What was I ever thinking.

    Most wins in the post season by a QB and 3 rings mean nothing, you guys are right. We should get rid of the superbowl & playoffs all together and give the two teams with the best records rings so it's fair and no one has to play under pressure.

    I still would take Brady over Peyton any time for a game winning drive. I think most would.



    You can believe/try to argue that Peyton is a better QB than Brady. You can never say he performs better in the playoffs(you know where it matters). He is currently in the lead for losing the most playoff games where Brady is in the lead for winning the most. lol.
    Championships do not equal the better player. It's almost like a winning Lotto ticket. You can ride the bench and have more championships than better players, so what?

    You would take Brady? How shocking. What it sounds like is you want to take Brady on a date.

  3. #53
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    Brady always had a better defensive team than manning. I'd also venture to say a better coach. This year will be intersting if NE can beat IND and DEN beats SD. DEN vs NE in Denver should be awesome. Manning finally has a better supporting cast than Brady. For ONCE!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's pitiful to be in the playoffs basically every year?

    You can't think of a single Peyton Manning led playoff victory? So when he smoked the Pats to get to the superbowl that was, what, not him?

    Peyton is the greatest of all time. A small sample size of playoff games doesn't change anything especially considering he already has won a superbowl showing that statistic to be meaningless.
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  4. #54
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    I'd love to see IND versus DEN... with Peyton coming out on top. That would be so sweet.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    considering he already has won a superbowl showing that statistic to be meaningless.
    WTF. You know what you just wrote makes no sense right? So rings and championships are meaningless? You obviously never played sports.

    Fact: Tom Brady holds the NFL record for most playoff wins by a quarterback with 17. Brett Favre shares the record for most playoff losses with Peyton Manning at 11. <---It's not Peyton's fault he lost it was his team! Boo Hoo!

    Using your logic Jordan wasn't the best who ever played in the NBA. Cuz rings and playoffs mean nothing. Career wins vs. losses mean nothing. Play off wins vs losses mean nothing.

    What matters again?
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  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    so you're ignoring the stats just posted? Manning with the second most combacks of all time right behind Marino? Marino in according to your way of thinking should never be considered one of the greatest all time because he has 0 Super Bowls?
    Marino is an all-time great courtesy of his prolific numerous, just as Peyton is. I never said he wasn’t a hall of famer- he deserves to go down as one of the top 3 or 5 passers ever. So it’s not like I’m saying the dude sucks.

    But since you want to bring up numbers, don’t stop at total volume. Carmelo puts up 40 a night and wins nada. Alex Smith completes near 70% of his passes, no one on planet earth believes he has better ball placement than Aaron Rogers. There’s context to everything that needs to be fleshed out. Regardless, Brady’s numbers are pristine. Nothing short of prolific…5K yard season, numerous 4K yard seasons, the second most touchdowns in a season all time, a season of 36 touchdowns to 4 ints…a career TD/INT ratio of nearly 3-1…fantastic season by season and cumulative YPA and completion %. All while playing with a grand total of 1 slam dunk hall of famers (Moss). Peyton grew up with Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison.
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  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Tom Brady Peyton Manning
    3-time Super Bowl Winner 1-time Super Bowl Winner
    5 Super Bowl appearances 2 Super Bowl appearances
    2 Super Bowl MVPs 1 Super Bowl MVP
    Single-Season Touchdown Record (50 touchdowns) 227 Consecutive Starts (Second-best at the quarterback position all-time)

    You left off the bottom row from the chart you sourced.

    Oh and Brady no longer as the single season TD record.




    Tom Brady Peyton Manning
    3-time Super Bowl Winner 1-time Super Bowl Winner
    5 Super Bowl appearances 2 Super Bowl appearances
    2 Super Bowl MVPs 1 Super Bowl MVP
    Single-Season Touchdown Record (50 touchdowns) 227 Consecutive Starts (Second-best at the quarterback position all-time)
    2 MVPs 4 MVPs

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    WTF. You know what you just wrote makes no sense right? So rings and championships are meaningless? You obviously never played sports.
    When evaluating A SINGLE PLAYER AND THEIR QUALITY they are just about meaningless. How is one superbowl ring elevating a player to some elite status?

    Oh wow Trent Dilfer has a superbowl ring. He's better than Dan Marino obviously and anyone who ever played a sport can see that.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    Brady always had a better defensive team than manning. I'd also venture to say a better coach. This year will be intersting if NE can beat IND and DEN beats SD. DEN vs NE in Denver should be awesome. Manning finally has a better supporting cast than Brady. For ONCE!
    Meh. We can argue about what really makes for a better team. Wouldn’t disagree that Brady has generally enjoyed superior defenses, though since 2005 the Pats D has been decidedly average-poor. The notion of that unit being a lockdown group is more myth than reality, which pains me to say but is certainly true.

    If the Broncos can’t beat this NE team then seriously this argument about Peyton is just done. The Pats are honestly a middle tier team in terms of talent; they’ve taken too many hits to blue chip players (Gronkowski, Mayo, Wilfork, Vollmer). Then again Denver was decidedly more talented than NE last season and still managed to lose.
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  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Marino is an all-time great courtesy of his prolific numerous, just as Peyton is. I never said he wasn’t a hall of famer- he deserves to go down as one of the top 3 or 5 passers ever. So it’s not like I’m saying the dude sucks.

    But since you want to bring up numbers, don’t stop at total volume. Carmelo puts up 40 a night and wins nada. Alex Smith completes near 70% of his passes, no one on planet earth believes he has better ball placement than Aaron Rogers. There’s context to everything that needs to be fleshed out. Regardless, Brady’s numbers are pristine. Nothing short of prolific…5K yard season, numerous 4K yard seasons, the second most touchdowns in a season all time, a season of 36 touchdowns to 4 ints…a career TD/INT ratio of nearly 3-1…fantastic season by season and cumulative YPA and completion %. All while playing with a grand total of 1 slam dunk hall of famers (Moss). Peyton grew up with Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison.
    Nobody is saying Brady isn't good. Peyton simply is the best and he has done it with two different teams and different personnel. Brady has yet to do anything without sucking Belichick's teet.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Then again Denver was decidedly more talented than NE last season and still managed to lose.
    To the team that won the Super Bowl.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    When evaluating A SINGLE PLAYER AND THEIR QUALITY they are just about meaningless. How is one superbowl ring elevating a player to some elite status?

    Oh wow Trent Dilfer has a superbowl ring. He's better than Dan Marino obviously and anyone who ever played a sport can see that.
    C’mon the direct comparison with Dilfer and Marino is a bit of a strawman..no one is arguing that if you win a superbowl and do nothing else, you are automatically the greatest.

    But…when you have two players with really quite similar per season numbers, and one player has a strong record of performance in big games, and the other frankly has sucked in big games. That’s not meaningless. We’re debating two of the greatest to ever play, not Trent Dilfer vs. Dan the man. It’s a given that their numbers and careers have been prolific.
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  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    To the team that won the Super Bowl.
    Yep. Again..i’m not saying he’s a terrible player. I’m saying he is not the greatest of all time, and that Tom Brady has had a superior career. That’s all.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    C’mon the direct comparison with Dilfer and Marino is a bit of a strawman..no one is arguing that if you win a superbowl and do nothing else, you are automatically the greatest.
    So you keep bringing up rings why?

    You do know that in order to have the most playoff losses you have to make the playoffs a hell of a lot right? By being great it will inflate your playoff loss record. So every quarterback that has less playoff losses than Manning is better than Manning? How does that even make sense?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    But…when you have two players with really quite similar per season numbers, and one player has a strong record of performance in big games, and the other frankly has sucked in big games. That’s not meaningless. We’re debating two of the greatest to ever play, not Trent Dilfer vs. Dan the man. It’s a given that their numbers and careers have been prolific.
    He's won the damn superbowl. He's been to two. That tells me he had to win a hell of a lot of big games along the way.

    He just had the best season by a QB in NFL history. It's not even an argument.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Nobody is saying Brady isn't good. Peyton simply is the best and he has done it with two different teams and different personnel. Brady has yet to do anything without sucking Belichick's teet.
    Oh he is the best now? How do you evaluate that? Please go on.

    Your best has the basically the worst losing record in the playoffs. But yet somehow is the 'Best'
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Yep. Again..i’m not saying he’s a terrible player. I’m saying he is not the greatest of all time, and that Tom Brady has had a superior career. That’s all.
    Tom Brady has not had the superior career. The career numbers are all in Manning's favor and he has been a better quarterback since what, high school?

    A few playoff wins do not make the superior career which is the entire body of work. He has had better postseasons? Sure. I'm sure if Peyton's coaches cheated he would have done better too.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    How do you evaluate that?
    Statistically. That's how.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Your best has the basically the worst losing record in the playoffs. But yet somehow is the 'Best'
    Yep because I'm not going to look at a small sample size to determine the broader picture. That's called skewing the results.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So you keep bringing up rings why?

    You do know that in order to have the most playoff losses you have to make the playoffs a hell of a lot right? By being great it will inflate your playoff loss record. So every quarterback that has less playoff losses than Manning is better than Manning? How does that even make sense?



    He's won the damn superbowl. He's been to two. That tells me he had to win a hell of a lot of big games along the way.

    He just had the best season by a QB in NFL history. It's not even an argument.
    No it won’t. Well if you lose a lot, yea it will. He’s made the playoffs a bunch, and generally got bounced in the first game he played. You just said the superbowls don’t matter, then you note him going to 2 superbowls?

    And his ’04 season was absolutely superior to ’13. No question if you put on the tape he was playing the position at an incredible level that season. Not that he was terrible this year or anything.

    We’ll agree to disagree. Happy I found this thread though.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    No it won’t. Well if you lose a lot, yea it will. He’s made the playoffs a bunch, and generally got bounced in the first game he played. You just said the superbowls don’t matter, then you note him going to 2 superbowls?
    The reason it is mentioned is because clearly he has won big games. You can't make a superbowl without doing so. Therefore your statistic is meaningless.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Statistically. That's how.



    Yep because I'm not going to look at a small sample size to determine the broader picture. That's called skewing the results.
    You are right the ONLY $#@!ING SAMPLE SIZE THAT MATTERS. Again you obviously never played physical team sports growing up or you would realize the BS coming out of your mouth. Playoffs are a completely 100% different animal than the regular season games. Everyone I know, all the sports broadcasters and former players agrees with that except you for some reason.

    You say rings and playoffs don't matter this is why our discussion ends here as you don't grasp the core concept of winning.

    Fact: Peyton's team loses when it matters most. Stats back this up. End of discussion on who is a better QB when it matters. The playoffs matter not the regular season.

    BTW in the regular season Peyton sucks vs. Brady so I wouldn't go compare the two. 10-4 what? How is Peyton better than Brady in the regular season when he can't beat him?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The reason it is mentioned is because clearly he has won big games. You can't make a superbowl without doing so. Therefore your statistic is meaningless.
    Yes he has won the big one…again we’re seriously splitting hairs here between two all time greats. All I object to is the implication that it’s Peyton then everyone else. That is a ridiculous argument. Click here to enlarge
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    If Peyton can grab another super bowl or two. He will definitely be considered the greatest QB ever. Right now he is just going to be the best statistically ever.

    He will end his career leading just about every QB statistic and record there is. He isn't far from Farve's records that I thought at one point would be very hard to reach.

    Brady is still behind people like Joe Montana, Jon Elway, etc...

    I am sure for people in Boston, Brady is god.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Yes he has won the big one…again we’re seriously splitting hairs here between two all time greats. All I object to is the implication that it’s Peyton then everyone else. That is a ridiculous argument. Click here to enlarge
    Yes there are still QB's I rank ahead of both of them.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    Yes there are still QB's I rank ahead of both of them.
    Please go on.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    If Peyton can grab another super bowl or two. He will definitely be considered the greatest QB ever. Right now he is just going to be the best statistically ever.

    He will end his career leading just about every QB statistic and record there is. He isn't far from Farve's records that I though at one point would be very hard to reach.

    Brady is still behind people like Joe Montana, Jon Elway, etc...

    I am sure for people in Boston, Brady is god.
    He’s not sniffing Brett’s volume numbers, it’s simply not happenin. Really says nothing about Peyton, and more about how flippin long Favre played for.

    Yes if he wins 2 more rings I will happily agree he is the GOAT. Let me know when that happens. In what sense is Brady “behind” Elway or Joe? I happen to think Montana is the best ever so no argument there, but Elway? I’m not seeing that.
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