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Thread: Direct Meth?

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    Direct Meth?

    I was wondering about either of these 2 setups. What changes need to be made, who do i contact to fab it. what nozzles ect.

    if this were your car, what would you do and how would you do it?

    certain events brought this topic up before i could post, but what are your thoughts on something like this?
    (HPF manifold, but location would be the same on stock)
    Either a large single located @ red arrow, or a dual setup, 1st in usual location and 2nd @ red arrow.
    if we were to try this what suggested sizes and where?
    Click here to enlarge

    or i was more thinking about a setup like this:
    what nozzles would these be, how would we set this one up?
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
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    The first pic wouldn't be considered a direct port setup, that is just a regular single or double nozzle setup...

    There are many ways to do what you want, just depends what your goals are and how far you want to take it.

    You can do 3 nozzles, one in between each cylinder runner. You can do a nozzle in each runner. Or you can do what you showed in the first pic.

    The best would obviously be a nozzle in each runner.

    I would go with the Labonete (sp?) kit with their in car digital display, or with Aquamist ($$$).

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    Just run a nozzle to each cylinder itself.

    Use a T and have one end going to three cylinders and the other end going to the other 3.

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    Wasn't ccyskes doing a setup like this (but on an S54) ? Might be a good idea to ask him.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Wasn't ccyskes doing a setup like this (but on an S54) ? Might be a good idea to ask him.
    Yes he did this on his S54. OP, you should read over his thread in the s54 section. It is a very good read.

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    Direct port is ideal for higher power applications where meth dispersion consistency is important.

    You could either tap the stock manifold or use some kind of fogger spacer. I dont know how much a stock manifold costs but if you can get a hold of one I would just tap it and run a single meth rail being fed by a main line. You will have to do some calculations on what size nozzles youll need per port, you arent injecting into the the TB anymore.
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    New manifold is between 400-600, i dont recall offhand which # it was. ive been thinkng about buying one to try out.. would be nice if either of the 2 prototypes circulating were actually available, even as a beta tester..

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    Do not use plastic fittings or line. I have a feeling the heat will eventually melt those when they are so close to the block.
    You also have to figure out if there will be equal pressure when you have so many T's in the main line.
    Then you have to worry about something leaking. A meth leak that close to the block....you might as well put a match in your gas tank.

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    i posted those, but im actually researching a setup much, in fact exactly like ccykes setup, to include 3 indivdual solenoids, SS lines and AN fittings ect..

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    I dunno it just seems like a lot of effort for minimal if any gains.

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    i kind of agree with laloosh, what's inadequate with your set-up now? i know this should make for perfect distribution between cylinders but at this power level and the power level you hope for i dont think it is necessary. the n54 is strong but no where near bulletproof, what kind of power numbers do you hope for at the end of your journey LM?
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    depends on how far i actually want to take the motor. I have estimates for a comlete rebuild with top-notch stuff.

    if you think about cost, its maybe a few hundred dollars from early pricing, (and thats mostly because of 3 solenoids, lines and fittings are maybe $250 total) but the benefits could be a big payoff. In theory, "IF" i chose to go this route, this meth setup and built motor, fueling is still an issue.. BUT this setup would be in place to "bandaid" the fueling- or do i have that incorrect? i know meth as a bandaid is obviously not the right way to go.. but does anyone else have another idea?

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    Didn't unfor say his guys secondary fuel injection is going to be released soon? People with upped turbos should have first dibbs Click here to enlarge
    JB4LIFE

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mazdaspeed6 Click here to enlarge
    Didn't unfor say his guys secondary fuel injection is going to be released soon? People with upped turbos should have first dibbs Click here to enlarge
    yes, he said that yesterday, after i had alreadt said these things.. but its still a nice option..

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    I was looking at my manifold yesterday thinking it would be easy to take a stock manifold, an extra one of course and set up nozzles on top of each chamber, with just a drill, nozzles and threaded washers. My concern would be how many pumps you would need and solenoids to keep pressure high enough for the type of atomization we are used to in single and dual nozzle setups. DO has a BanK in which several lines run out of to equally distribute meth among 8 locations I think. Looks like it would be pretty easy to place nozzles so that they will address each cylinder and I am really surprised that with they guys we have on n54 and here on bimmerboost that it hasn't been done yet. Take 6 # 2 nozzles and tap the top of each chamber and use the bank I see on the DO page and use a sureflo pump designed for 100psi applications and you should have enough pressure so that even though you had 6 lines running of the same pump. Hell you could put 6 solenoids pre nozzle for each cylinder and you would be golden..... in theroy. : ) Someone send me the stuff and Ill do it first! I need 6 # 2 nozzles( lets try snow) , a 6 way bank from DO, 6 solenoids CM preffered, Lets go with the Labonte controller and failsafe, Oh and one more Stock Manifold. Frankenstein Lives! It wouldn't be nearly as elaborate as the version above but prob as effective and easy enough for any of us to do without a machine shop.
    2007 E90 non sport, JB3 2.0 18ohm, Labonte Progressive Meth, Cooling Mist Solenoid & Nozzles CM5 & M7, Ar DPs, Hyperboost Diverter Valves, M3 19s, M3 Rear Carbon Spoiler, Koni FSD, ZSP Springs

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mobilefitt Click here to enlarge
    I was looking at my manifold yesterday thinking it would be easy to take a stock manifold, an extra one of course and set up nozzles on top of each chamber, with just a drill, nozzles and threaded washers. My concern would be how many pumps you would need and solenoids to keep pressure high enough for the type of atomization we are used to in single and dual nozzle setups. DO has a BanK in which several lines run out of to equally distribute meth among 8 locations I think. Looks like it would be pretty easy to place nozzles so that they will address each cylinder and I am really surprised that with they guys we have on n54 and here on bimmerboost that it hasn't been done yet. Take 6 # 2 nozzles and tap the top of each chamber and use the bank I see on the DO page and use a sureflo pump designed for 100psi applications and you should have enough pressure so that even though you had 6 lines running of the same pump. Hell you could put 6 solenoids pre nozzle for each cylinder and you would be golden..... in theroy. : ) Someone send me the stuff and Ill do it first! I need 6 # 2 nozzles( lets try snow) , a 6 way bank from DO, 6 solenoids CM preffered, Lets go with the Labonte controller and failsafe, Oh and one more Stock Manifold. Frankenstein Lives! It wouldn't be nearly as elaborate as the version above but prob as effective and easy enough for any of us to do without a machine shop.
    The most efficient way to design this system if you wanted to was a single meth rail as close as possible to the injectors. This will reduce pressure drop in the system.

    Having 6 seperatine nylon lines supplying meth to each nozzle is going to produce a lot of pressure drop. The idea of a large rail is low velocity in the rail acts as a fluid capacitor and since pressure drop is very sensitive to fluid velocity the rail idea is a no brainer. Now the pump, well if you are flowing the same amount of meth then the pump size wouldnt change. Just make sure your pressure drop is about the same and youre golden, i would anticipate you could use the same pump.
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    "direct injection" was really used in rally cars in WRC. They used only water, no meth. i've never seen anyone use this type of injection with meth and i guess my only concern would be a methanol backfire.....
    Those injectors in the pictures are Aquamist.

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    I've been wanting to play around with it but bogged down in development on our N54 hardware. One of these days. M3 nozzle in each port would be groovy if it works. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I've been wanting to play around with it but bogged down in development on our N54 hardware. One of these days. M3 nozzle in each port would be groovy if it works. Click here to enlarge
    Terry I have some ideas for you to think about for direct meth on a certain someones car...will email ya again shortly.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    Terry I have some ideas for you to think about for direct meth on a certain someones car...will email ya again shortly.
    New question:
    If the JE secondary fueling system is in place. would we still need meth in our water/meth kits? And even if so, does it make sense to still go to a direct meth setup over our current usual setup location?

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    Meth will still be valuable in adding octane when running pump gas, just as it is at lower boost levels. The fuel hurdle should be whipped with a good setup but knock will always be a challenge.
    2009 335i: PROcede V4 with BMS DCI (still not sure how they get along!)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Doug007 Click here to enlarge
    Meth will still be valuable in adding octane when running pump gas, just as it is at lower boost levels. The fuel hurdle should be whipped with a good setup but knock will always be a challenge.

    This. You can still mix it how you like for a little bit better oomph. Its always best to get the car squared away on gas first and then bump it up accordingly.

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    http://www.alcohol-injection.com/dir...ifold-129.html

    This is the tool I was talking about...... One line in...six lines out... maybe a solenoid right before it??? I said #2 nozzles but T thinks #3s??
    2007 E90 non sport, JB3 2.0 18ohm, Labonte Progressive Meth, Cooling Mist Solenoid & Nozzles CM5 & M7, Ar DPs, Hyperboost Diverter Valves, M3 19s, M3 Rear Carbon Spoiler, Koni FSD, ZSP Springs

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