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  1. #51
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    Terry what's the maximum psi you would recommend running on an N54 running 91oct no meth?
    "I hate you, you, and especially you and hope that all the bad things in life happen to you and only you!"

  2. #52
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    Depends on timing but map 3 is suggested. With mods many get away with map 5, which is around 14.5psi.

  3. #53
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    Is there a rundown of what each map is somewhere?

  4. #54
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    ok, from what I read i have one answer. Sevek had the failsafe enabled. This proves conclusively the meth kit did not "fail" like someone on E90 is trying to say (will remain nameless). Had it failed and failsafe was enabled it would have reverted back to base map.

    This leaves important questions partially answered.

    Meth mix? what mix was he running?
    nozzle size? I believe this is a M5 or M8 because records show thats what he ordered. I dont know if he upgraded his nozzle along the line as his power increased.
    Max setting on controller, I will assume its 12 psi or so, however if he set it real high to lower the DC, flow would have been even less.

    if he detonated due to a lean condition and the meth kit did not fail as proven, we can say for certain that the nozzle size was not big enough. What we cant say at this point is would a larger nozzle(s) have prevented this. Always remember when you get your meth kit, if you are running something exraoridinary with your boost/car to consider running larger nozzles.

    CM

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by coolingmist Click here to enlarge
    Meth mix? what mix was he running?
    nozzle size? I believe this is a M5 or M8 because records show thats what he ordered.
    He ordered two nozzles?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by coolingmist Click here to enlarge
    Meth mix? what mix was he running?
    This should be fairly easy to find out from him.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by coolingmist Click here to enlarge
    Always remember when you get your meth kit, if you are running something exraoridinary with your boost/car to consider running larger nozzles.
    Ok, which ones and what mix? How much larger would the nozzles need to be?

  6. #56
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    no, he ran a single nozzle but back then the kit came with 2 nozzles standard a M5 and M8. He ran one or the other not both.

    I cant tell anyone what size nozzles they need to run other than some simple guidelines. Remember as I said we dont have alot of data of guys runnin 19 + psi. How do we know what is enough flow vs not enough? Its trial and error, you see what happens during error. I recommend for anyone running crazy boost levels and that wants to risk detonation to run as large as nozzles as you can get away with. We make kits available, however its up to the user to determine how much flow the want/need.

    CM

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    He ordered two nozzles?



    This should be fairly easy to find out from him.



    Ok, which ones and what mix? How much larger would the nozzles need to be?

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by coolingmist Click here to enlarge
    I cant tell anyone what size nozzles they need to run other than some simple guidelines. Remember as I said we dont have alot of data of guys runnin 19 + psi. How do we know what is enough flow vs not enough?
    Well, you say larger nozzle but then what are guys supposed to do, guess?

    I guess what I'm asking is what are the largest nozzles you have and how much larger are they than the M5 and M8?

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well, you say larger nozzle but then what are guys supposed to do, guess?

    I guess what I'm asking is what are the largest nozzles you have and how much larger are they than the M5 and M8?

    We manufacture kits for every kind of vehicle on the planet not just N54. Have a snow mobile? 2000 HP diesel? Motorcycle? Scooter? Airboat? Air plane? Sand Rail? Wrx? Srt-4? Evo? Camaro? Rx7?

    I hope you see my point. We make kits available for customers. The nozzles that come in the kit will work with most vehicles. If you have a tuner I always recommend asking them what is best for the application. I cant test every single car on the market and every tune and every boost level. We make our kits user adjustable for that exact purpose. If you buy our kit for the procede as Shiv what size nozzle, or use what comes in the kit. if you buy it for the JB3 talk to Terry. The nozzles that are provided are going to work fine with 99% of the N54s out there. Those guys that are pushing the envelope running Nitrous, 19-20 psi, its not been done before or very much so there is not much data. My best advise is to ask your tuner if you dont know. Short of that, run as large of a nozzle(s) that you can.



    Next size up from M8/CM7 is CM10. we have customers with the camaro that run dual M10s, thats a new platform as well and as we get more data we begin to see what works better.

    I hope that makes sense.

  9. #59
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    2 things:

    1. I have been using a single M10 for months now and its so far has performed flawlessly. usually running 70/30 but have gone higher when i know im going to use 19+ psi. I have since changed to a dual setup
    CM7 post FMIC and CM5 Pre-TB. Do to the rains, I have not had a chance yet to log anything with it so i dont know how its performing, but the car "feels stronger" at the daily 17/18 psi.


    2. I just got an estimate from a local place to rebuild the motor, and its not cheap, but not extreme either. $7 turn-key (+tax) and that inlcudes upgraded parts. Its a shame Sevak cant work something out to get it built here and shipped or something along those lines..

  10. #60
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    Assuming the meth kit worked as intended (i have my doubts) wouldnt the jb3 simply rely on the dme to reduce timing to the knock threshold? Hell based on what Mike speaks on e90, the jb3 will adap as boost goes up, whats the point of even running meth if that theory is remotly true? Slow ease into right? map 3,5,7,9....80 ect ect.

    What happen to Sevak will not be known untill he actually speaks, however it seems like vendors are scrambling and trying to proove certain things worked as intended wihtout actually knowing so.

    First it was stated he ran 19.5 psi, then 18.5 then 18....wtf does this even mean? 18-19.5 sustained? DOUBTFUL
    Then theres rumors of failsafes not being plugged in and the meth kit taking a $#@!.
    Then theres rumors of the failsafe working as intended, however not enough flow. That goes against Terry's preachings. The man states the stock dme is perfectly fine with running negative timing if it needs to. So which one is it?

    If i was a betting man I would guess, failsafe turned off, meth failed, ringland goes bye bye.
    But they say it didnt happen till the next day so it must have been prolonged....so either the meth kit had issues for a while now, or the jb3 caused the problem by not providing proper ignition.

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    What happen to Sevak will not be known untill he actually speaks, however it seems like vendors are scrambling and trying to proove certain things worked as intended wihtout actually knowing so.
    Actually, its you thats scrambling trying to prove the the meth kit has failed without actually knowing so. There is no evidence of any failure, yet you continue to make these posts saying you know otherwise.

    what ever happened happened. The goal is to learn from it and improve. Even if the kit failed, if the customer NOT turned the failsafe off, the kit WOULD have done its job had the failsafe been active and setup correct.

    CM
    Last edited by coolingmist; 10-07-2010 at 09:47 PM.

  12. #62
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    I've seen Sevak's logs, the failsafe was disabled during logging and the min threshold was set at about 1/4 of what it needed to be for his very aggressive setup.

  13. #63
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    Here is how the failsafe works. A signal is sent to the Jb3 when the system reads flow within X and X param.

    Any failure outside of the flow window and JB3 switches maps.

    EVEN IF THE POWER TO THE FAILSAFE IS TURNED OFF THE jb3 WILL GO BACK TO LOW MAP.

    There are no situations where I can think of any kind of failure where the failsafe will not trip if its turned on.

    CM

  14. #64
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    AS Terry pointed out, you must set the failsafe up correct for your application or its worthless. Also, Terry and myself preach day in and day out to run the failsafe. Dont ever turn it off. There is no reason on this earth that you would need to turn it off.

    CM

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by coolingmist Click here to enlarge
    Actually, its you thats scrambling trying to prove the the meth kit has failed without actually knowing so. There is no evidence of any failure, yet you continue to make these posts saying you know otherwise.

    what ever happened happened. The goal is to learn from it and improve. Even if the kit failed, if the customer NOT turned the failsafe off, the kit WOULD have done its job had the failsafe been active and setup correct. Again, no evidence of that of which I am aware of.

    CM
    Actually it was stated by his sweeden buddies that the failsafe was off and meth kit failed. Your flow theory doesnt hold based on Terrys posts

  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by coolingmist Click here to enlarge
    AS Terry pointed out, you must set the failsafe up correct for your application or its worthless. Also, Terry and myself preach day in and day out to run the failsafe. Dont ever turn it off. There is no reason on this earth that you would need to turn it off.

    CM
    So if the failsafe was off and meth was flowing, we wouldnt be here right? This further implies that the meth kit failed. Leak/air/pump/clog, whatever.

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Hell based on what Mike speaks on e90, the jb3 will adap as boost goes up, whats the point of even running meth if that theory is remotly true? Slow ease into right? map 3,5,7,9....80 ect ect.
    Because you are giving the ECU a larger window to work in before pulling timing I would think.

  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Actually it was stated by his sweeden buddies that the failsafe was off and meth kit failed. Your flow theory doesnt hold based on Terrys posts
    You show me where he said the kit failed. Please post a link to it here so I can see for myself. Again, you miss the entire point. You dont turn the failsafe off, its there for a reason. Had the kit failed, the failsafe would have dropped the map.

    My flow theory? I dont have any flow theory. The kit does what it is supposed to and is reliable.

    CM

  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I've seen Sevak's logs, the failsafe was disabled during logging and the min threshold was set at about 1/4 of what it needed to be for his very aggressive setup.
    Have these been posted?

  20. #70
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Assuming the meth kit worked as intended (i have my doubts) wouldnt the jb3 simply rely on the dme to reduce timing to the knock threshold? Hell based on what Mike speaks on e90, the jb3 will adap as boost goes up, whats the point of even running meth if that theory is remotly true? Slow ease into right? map 3,5,7,9....80 ect ect.

    What happen to Sevak will not be known untill he actually speaks, however it seems like vendors are scrambling and trying to proove certain things worked as intended wihtout actually knowing so.

    First it was stated he ran 19.5 psi, then 18.5 then 18....wtf does this even mean? 18-19.5 sustained? DOUBTFUL
    Then theres rumors of failsafes not being plugged in and the meth kit taking a $#@!.
    Then theres rumors of the failsafe working as intended, however not enough flow. That goes against Terry's preachings. The man states the stock dme is perfectly fine with running negative timing if it needs to. So which one is it?

    If i was a betting man I would guess, failsafe turned off, meth failed, ringland goes bye bye.
    But they say it didnt happen till the next day so it must have been prolonged....so either the meth kit had issues for a while now, or the jb3 caused the problem by not providing proper ignition.
    He was playing around with a lot of settings and not monitoring ignition timing. Had gone to some 12ohm resistors as an experiment and the power curve was very aggressive. You can see in the log the failsafe is disabled as it stays on map 1 even after letting off the gas.

    The DME can not react from full advance at very high boost levels to an instant massive drop in octane. I've never suggested it could. The meth failsafe has to provide the protection in that case. And for that to happen it has to be properly setup and on.

    And of course the bigger picture item here is playing around at these higher boost levels and modified boards especially when you personally don't know much about tuning is a recipe for an expensive repair. This would have never happened if he was running map 5 on a stock board. If you're doing the logging, making changes, bypassing safety systems, etc, you need to know when you push that gas pedal down it's possible for bad things to happen.
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  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    So if the failsafe was off and meth was flowing, we wouldnt be here right? This further implies that the meth kit failed. Leak/air/pump/clog, whatever.
    No. Again, you miss the whole point.

    #1 we dont know why the engine failed yet but you can assume it ran lean.
    #2 running a M8 nozzle at 19.5 PSI is not enough flow
    #3 no meth kit ever blows up an engine.
    #4 a failsafe is useless if not setup correct or turned off.

    There are limits to any meth kit, its not going to save every car and if your going to push the envelope you need to have enough flow. If you have too small of a nozzle, all can work great and you still blow your engine.

    CM

  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by coolingmist Click here to enlarge
    You show me where he said the kit failed. Please post a link to it here so I can see for myself. Again, you miss the entire point. You dont turn the failsafe off, its there for a reason. Had the kit failed, the failsafe would have dropped the map.

    My flow theory? I dont have any flow theory. The kit does what it is supposed to and is reliable.

    CM
    Dave at this point, i could personally careless if the failsafe was turned on or off. On e90 I am the only one that asked WHAT FAILED IN THE METH KIT. I could carelessa bout the jb3/v4 drama (although its funny and easy to join in)

    Accept the fact that the failsafe was off. For the motor to knock itself to death, the meth flow had to be compramised...aka your meth kit had a failure due to the pump failing/line cracking/line clogging/air in the line/injector clogged/electrical. This failure could have been caused by the user, or it could have been caused by a desgin flaw which you are known for. Notice how I am not claiming anything, simply making educated speculation based on known facts. You attack me, and you will regret it, I have been "fair" up to this point.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    He was playing around with a lot of settings and not monitoring ignition timing. Had gone to some 12ohm resistors as an experiment and the power curve was very aggressive. You can see in the log the failsafe is disabled as it stays on map 1 even after letting off the gas.

    The DME can not react from full advance at very high boost levels to an instant massive drop in octane. I've never suggested it could. The meth failsafe has to provide the protection in that case. And for that to happen it has to be properly setup and on.

    And of course the bigger picture item here is playing around at these higher boost levels and modified boards especially when you personally don't know much about tuning is a recipe for an expensive repair. This would have never happened if he was running map 5 on a stock board. If you're doing the logging, making changes, bypassing safety systems, etc, you need to know when you push that gas pedal down it's possible for bad things to happen.
    I have run this agressive before and have no issues, 40k. Then again I know what to log for and am careful. So would you agree that the meth kit failing is a possibility here? No one expects your tune to comp for a massive octane drop at 18.5 psi.

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Dave at this point, i could personally careless if the failsafe was turned on or off. On e90 I am the only one that asked WHAT FAILED IN THE METH KIT. I could carelessa bout the jb3/v4 drama (although its funny and easy to join in)

    Accept the fact that the failsafe was off. For the motor to knock itself to death, the meth flow had to be compramised...aka your meth kit had a failure due to the pump failing/line cracking/line clogging/air in the line/injector clogged/electrical. This failure could have been caused by the user, or it could have been caused by a desgin flaw which you are known for. Notice how I am not claiming anything, simply making educated speculation based on known facts. You attack me, and you will regret it, I have been "fair" up to this point.
    I dont have any design flaws in my kit and I am sick you saying so. For the record.

    #1 line is not going to crack. Period.
    #2 he ran a solenoid so no air in the line. If he had air in the line, its his fault for racing on an empty tank.

    Short of that, his kit either works or it does not. Let Sevak say if the meth kit failed or not, not you.

    Regardless you cant bypass a safey device. Even if your theory is correct, the failsafe would have kicked in.

    So I am fair to say this.

    #1 either the nozzle was too small and due to the amount of boost and amount of time he was racing it was not enough flow. In this case failsafe or not, does not matter.
    #2 too low of flow setting on the failsafe.
    #3 had failsafe turned off and something failed.

    In any of these case, had it been setup correct...things may be different.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by coolingmist Click here to enlarge
    No. Again, you miss the whole point.

    #1 we dont know why the engine failed yet but you can assume it ran lean.
    #2 running a M8 nozzle at 19.5 PSI is not enough flow
    #3 no meth kit ever blows up an engine.
    #4 a failsafe is useless if not setup correct or turned off.

    There are limits to any meth kit, its not going to save every car and if your going to push the envelope you need to have enough flow. If you have too small of a nozzle, all can work great and you still blow your engine.

    CM
    1. you can assume it ran lean, I will assume it hit a huge octane drop at 18psi due to the meth failing
    2. Where do you see 19.5psi? I see 18.5ish failling to 14. m8 would not give optimal timing, but it would be pretty close. Either way the jb3, err I mean stock ecu, would adapt
    3. what? a meth kit that fails (user error, hardware error) will blow an engine by causing knock and detonation.
    4. Your point?

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