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  1. #126
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    How difficult would it be to machine a new swash plate with greater angle to increase flow?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    i think i am going to open up so i can see it and play with the chain i may be able to just replace the sprocket and make it smaller and then run a spacer or cnc'd part for the chain tensonier because replacing the chain is wayy too much work considering you have to pull the head
    Maybe this can help you:

    Click here to enlarge

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    Looks like there is no tensioner for the chain, only three guides.

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    There is a tensioner on the left of that picture i just was thinking and i think a dual pump setup would be ideal
    Click here to enlarge

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    4 out of 4 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    There is a tensioner on the left of that picture
    Take a deep breath buddy.

    The tensioner you see is for the cam chain. Look at the picture again (click on it and zoom in if you have to, it's 2150 X 1613 pixels). Can't you see there is a different chain that drives the oil pump / HPFP than the camshafts?

    Again, there is no ''tensioner'' for the chain that drives the HPFP. The plate with the guides is part # 11317523884
    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...52&hg=11&fg=30

    Here it is:

    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

    One of the guides isn't fixed and has a metal plate behind it and it rests against a nob. All this does is take the slack out of the chain.

    I think you need to take a step back and make sure you know exactly what you are getting into.

    This for example:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR
    because replacing the chain is wayy too much work considering you have to pull the head
    You don't need to pull the head to replace either chain. If you want to replace the cam chain, all you have to do is remove the cam gears. Then, just like with the other chain, remove the hub that bolts to the end of the cranckshaft, here:

    Click here to enlarge


    Let's break down you're idea :

    1. Overdriving the HPFP using a smaller sprocket.

    Okay so you have the stock sprocket which you will have a CAD design made for and then you will calculate how much faster the pump needs to spin to get the fuel you need and then have a smaller sprocket machined. Great. Say you had a tooth taken off. You remove all the belts in front of the motor and everything else you need to get in there, install the new sprocket.

    What if the chain is too loose?

    What if the pump spins faster but nothing changes?

    What if the pump spins faster and burns because it's not designed for this?

    What if the pressure is too high and you can't regulate it?


    Concluding thoughts,

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    but i dont have the resources to fund an upgrade to the actual hpfp
    Before doing anything, I think you need to set up a budget. You've got a real awesome project going on, why not start by getting it working 100% and then look for more power?

  6. #131
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    I appreciate you breaking down exactly what it would take. I honestly took a look in there and was like I have no idea what's really involved to get this out of here, shorten the chain, and make a smaller sprocket. But I knew whatever it was, was too much work for me to consider it a viable option. I promise you guys I have a very solid plan in mind and will get started on it soon.

  7. #132
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alex325i Click here to enlarge
    Take a deep breath buddy.

    The tensioner you see is for the cam chain. Look at the picture again (click on it and zoom in if you have to, it's 2150 X 1613 pixels). Can't you see there is a different chain that drives the oil pump / HPFP than the camshafts?

    Again, there is no ''tensioner'' for the chain that drives the HPFP. The plate with the guides is part # 11317523884
    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...52&hg=11&fg=30

    Here it is:

    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

    One of the guides isn't fixed and has a metal plate behind it and it rests against a nob. All this does is take the slack out of the chain.

    I think you need to take a step back and make sure you know exactly what you are getting into.

    This for example:



    You don't need to pull the head to replace either chain. If you want to replace the cam chain, all you have to do is remove the cam gears. Then, just like with the other chain, remove the hub that bolts to the end of the cranckshaft, here:

    Click here to enlarge


    Let's break down you're idea :

    1. Overdriving the HPFP using a smaller sprocket.

    Okay so you have the stock sprocket which you will have a CAD design made for and then you will calculate how much faster the pump needs to spin to get the fuel you need and then have a smaller sprocket machined. Great. Say you had a tooth taken off. You remove all the belts in front of the motor and everything else you need to get in there, install the new sprocket.

    What if the chain is too loose?

    What if the pump spins faster but nothing changes?

    What if the pump spins faster and burns because it's not designed for this?

    What if the pressure is too high and you can't regulate it?


    Concluding thoughts,



    Before doing anything, I think you need to set up a budget. You've got a real awesome project going on, why not start by getting it working 100% and then look for more power?
    I would rep you but i cant too new on here

    I sat down for a few hours yesterday after deciding that this sprocket would not work/ be an ideal solution. The best solution for me will be a 2 pump setup. This is because my car doesnt have to be down to have this piece made. The 2 pump setup will allow for plenty enough fuel now and when someone does come out with a upgraded hpfp that say runs out at 1000whp you can use 2 of them and have all of the fuel youd ever need. It will also cause less head aches to replace since install will be basically just installing a hpfp.

    The car is mostly back together and come tomorrow we have a few more things to do and it will start.

    current setup since a few things have changed is:

    6466 DBB 1.00ar divided
    twin scroll top mount manifold
    single 44mm tial mvr wastegate with fully divided feed
    the wastegate feed is one pipe that has been plasma cut and divided up until 1/16 of an inch from the valve
    3.5" downpipe to a vband that has a split attached to it for now to bolt up to stock exhaust
    will go to 4" down the road
    recirc wastegate
    all lines and fittings for the turbo are custom lathed pieces
    the water cooling fittings for the wastegate are the same as above
    water pipe is cut and re made to allow for manifold clearance
    intake is very small but will be changed soon to a large filter laying on the right side of the engine
    boost lines are all push lock fittings with a mac valve

    i dont think there is anything ive missed
    Click here to enlarge

  8. #133
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    I would rep you but i cant too new on here

    I sat down for a few hours yesterday after deciding that this sprocket would not work/ be an ideal solution. The best solution for me will be a 2 pump setup. This is because my car doesnt have to be down to have this piece made. The 2 pump setup will allow for plenty enough fuel now and when someone does come out with a upgraded hpfp that say runs out at 1000whp you can use 2 of them and have all of the fuel youd ever need. It will also cause less head aches to replace since install will be basically just installing a hpfp.

    The car is mostly back together and come tomorrow we have a few more things to do and it will start.

    current setup since a few things have changed is:

    6466 DBB 1.00ar divided
    twin scroll top mount manifold
    single 44mm tial mvr wastegate with fully divided feed
    the wastegate feed is one pipe that has been plasma cut and divided up until 1/16 of an inch from the valve
    3.5" downpipe to a vband that has a split attached to it for now to bolt up to stock exhaust
    will go to 4" down the road
    recirc wastegate
    all lines and fittings for the turbo are custom lathed pieces
    the water cooling fittings for the wastegate are the same as above
    water pipe is cut and re made to allow for manifold clearance
    intake is very small but will be changed soon to a large filter laying on the right side of the engine
    boost lines are all push lock fittings with a mac valve

    i dont think there is anything ive missed
    Much smarter approach and proven to work by the diesel community running similar type common rail systems. We are going this route as well, but not for a one off, going to make it a viable but prob costly upgrade.

  9. #134
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    There is a tensioner on the left of that picture i just was thinking and i think a dual pump setup would be ideal
    Yes, dual pump is absolutely ideal, this is what the diesel guys do, it's just a matter of working out placement, there's no doubt it will work. Remember fueling can be taken over by the JB4, so ECU can be manipulated in that department as to not interfere.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

    Click here to enlarge

  10. #135
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    looking at it i think there is room to run 2 hpfps fairly easily my biggest concern is the lines that need to be custom to the fuel rail they are at 3000psi and all lol
    Click here to enlarge

  11. #136
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    looking at it i think there is room to run 2 hpfps fairly easily my biggest concern is the lines that need to be custom to the fuel rail they are at 3000psi and all lol
    I love when people say that. This has been an issue for years now, with a lot of smart and talented people working on the platform, if it was "fairly easy" It would be done already. Sure with a single allowing you to get rid of the intakes on the drivers side, you have a lot more room, but most of the guys who need this are right now are the stock frame guys with the huge tq bump down low, they run the stock intakes. We have measured everything, there is not much room on that side with them in place. We actually had everything at the machine shop to make the brackets etc for a second pump almost 8 months ago now. We just let it fall through the cracks as we had to many other things to do. Can it be done, of course, is it fairly easy, I would have to disagree there.

  12. #137
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I love when people say that. This has been an issue for years now, with a lot of smart and talented people working on the platform, if it was "fairly easy" It would be done already. Sure with a single allowing you to get rid of the intakes on the drivers side, you have a lot more room, but most of the guys who need this are right now are the stock frame guys with the huge tq bump down low, they run the stock intakes. We have measured everything, there is not much room on that side with them in place. We actually had everything at the machine shop to make the brackets etc for a second pump almost 8 months ago now. We just let it fall through the cracks as we had to many other things to do. Can it be done, of course, is it fairly easy, I would have to disagree there.
    I think it will be fairly easy. I guess my definition of fairly easy is a bit off due to desperation though lol. You wont have to have a new intake manifold or cut anything to do it or spend days to replace it. Regardless if it is damn near impossible to do it will be worth it. Its the only thing holding this platform back at the moment. At least thats how i see it. I have all this custom turbo work and will make 600whp but after this hpfp issue is solved its raise boost until the motor pops and then rebuild. I mean $#@! at this point id resort to anything to make it work so just having a small gear box made to allow the drive of an auxiliary pump isnt bad.
    Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    I think it will be fairly easy. I guess my definition of fairly easy is a bit off due to desperation though lol. You wont have to have a new intake manifold or cut anything to do it or spend days to replace it. Regardless if it is damn near impossible to do it will be worth it. Its the only thing holding this platform back at the moment. At least thats how i see it. I have all this custom turbo work and will make 600whp but after this hpfp issue is solved its raise boost until the motor pops and then rebuild. I mean $#@! at this point id resort to anything to make it work so just having a small gear box made to allow the drive of an auxiliary pump isnt bad.
    What about an electronically driven one? Or an electric motor that mechanically drives one? OEM alternator is 180a, so I'd think there's a good amount of headroom for electrical devices, obviously key is to also not add too much restriction for the motor to be turning all this
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    I sat down for a few hours yesterday after deciding that this sprocket would not work/ be an ideal solution.
    I'm glad you are taking it this way. In NO WAY am I trying to discourage you.

    The fueling solution is either going to be:

    - two HPFP's
    - single upgraded HPFP
    - port injection system to work with the direct injection system
    - ditch the direct injection completely and run a port injection system

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alex325i Click here to enlarge
    I'm glad you are taking it this way. In NO WAY am I trying to discourage you.

    The fueling solution is either going to be:

    - two HPFP's
    - single upgraded HPFP
    - port injection system to work with the direct injection system
    - ditch the direct injection completely and run a port injection system
    I think your right, and I also think all of those options will be done by someone in 2014, except maybe port injection in conjunction with DI, but I think someone is already working on ditching DI altogether and going with PI.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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  16. #141
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    This is just me, but i'd much, much rather see a parallel high pressure setup or an upgraded single pump...something that allows us to keep DI. Could run it in tandem with a PI controller, but I don't see losing DI simply for more fuel as an optimal improvement. We can do better than that.
    E88 N54 w stuff
    F30 335 X-Drive EBII....PPK otherwise Stock
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    This is just me, but i'd much, much rather see a parallel high pressure setup or an upgraded single pump...something that allows us to keep DI. Could run it in tandem with a PI controller, but I don't see losing DI simply for more fuel as an optimal improvement. We can do better than that.
    I completely agree. I don't want to lose DI, just like I don't want to lose my 6AT for another auto trans, I want to build it stronger.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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  18. #143
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    and I also think all of those options will be done by someone in 2014, except maybe port injection in conjunction with DI
    I was thinking about CP-E.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What can be said is this kit will cost over $10k. How much over $10k is up in the air but that figure will also depend on options. An option for example is a port injection supplemental fuel system. The fuel system is not included with the kit.

    See: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...t-at-SEMA-2013

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    Getting rid of DI and going to port injection is like taking port injection off your car and putting a carb on it. DI is one of the main reasons out motors are as efficient as they are, getting rid of it would be a MAJOR step backwards from an efficiency and technology standpoint. You think oems are going to DI because it's just a fun thing to do. Getting rid if DI should not even be on the list. Period

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Getting rid of DI and going to port injection is like taking port injection off your car and putting a carb on it. DI is one of the main reasons out motors are as efficient as they are, getting rid of it would be a MAJOR step backwards from an efficiency and technology standpoint. You think oems are going to DI because it's just a fun thing to do. Getting rid if DI should not even be on the list. Period
    I understand and agree with you. Really looking forward to seeing what you are going to offer, regardless of if it's an upgraded pump or a second one, it will be the right thing to do.

  21. #146
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Getting rid of DI and going to port injection is like taking port injection off your car and putting a carb on it. DI is one of the main reasons out motors are as efficient as they are, getting rid of it would be a MAJOR step backwards from an efficiency and technology standpoint. You think oems are going to DI because it's just a fun thing to do. Getting rid if DI should not even be on the list. Period
    Direct injection is being used for fuel efficiency more than anything else with all the standards getting tighter and tighter.

    I do hope the N54 guys find some kind of solution to bolster the DI setup.

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    Click here to enlarge

    soon.....
    Click here to enlarge

  23. #148
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    @BTMFR me, you, and @Ak335i will all need to get together. You're in Gainesville right? It'd be great to our 3 cars stack up. I'll be done in probably 3 weeks now that Turbo wait should be over.

    Good thread BTW man, been enjoying watching it come together, making me anxious to get mine back.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
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    I like it! Congrats!

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