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  1. #101
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    Get some high quality pics of everything Click here to enlarge

    i will there will be high quality pics posted soon

    so i ordered this 11417516128 its the sprocket on the vacuum pump which is the piece that the hpfp runs off of. im going to have a friend cad design it and make it smaller to over drive the pump. Now i just need to figure out how much i want to overdrive it. i have seen some logs that it drops off at around 4000rpm and picks back up around 5000rpm so i think im going to calculate it so that at around 3500rpm it spins as fast as it does at 4500-5000rpm. i think that this would allow it to spin fast enough to make the fuel i need and potentially will need in the future when i run 100% e85 and the boost i want (30-35psi)
    Click here to enlarge

  2. #102
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    i will there will be high quality pics posted soon

    so i ordered this 11417516128 its the sprocket on the vacuum pump which is the piece that the hpfp runs off of. im going to have a friend cad design it and make it smaller to over drive the pump. Now i just need to figure out how much i want to overdrive it. i have seen some logs that it drops off at around 4000rpm and picks back up around 5000rpm so i think im going to calculate it so that at around 3500rpm it spins as fast as it does at 4500-5000rpm. i think that this would allow it to spin fast enough to make the fuel i need and potentially will need in the future when i run 100% e85 and the boost i want (30-35psi)
    You are opening a can of worms here, have you actually been into where that sprocket is? Getting to it is very difficult, then you have the issue of removing the chain (extremely difficult) and installing a shorter one for the smaller sprocket, or removing links, which who knows of it will weaken the chain. Don't forget that chain also controls cam timing which is very critical and very very easy to get one tooth off etc. Of all the ways to get this done. This is by far the most time consuming, for possible marginal gains. As soon as we get the rest of these stage 2's out the door and caught up on our industrial stuff, out next goal is to attack the HPFP. With a solution that will not only solve the fueling issue but be, easy to install. 2014 will be a good year for N54/55.

  3. #103
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    Yes ive seen the sprocket and where it is i understand that it is a pain but i dont have the resources to fund an upgrade to the actual hpfp i guess if you are going to develop one i may just wait for that well see
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    Yes ive seen the sprocket and where it is i understand that it is a pain but i dont have the resources to fund an upgrade to the actual hpfp i guess if you are going to develop one i may just wait for that well see
    In no way trying to discourage you. Just want to make are you know what you are getting into there. Putting a smaller sprocket in there woukd require an insane amount of work, for unknown gains.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    Yes ive seen the sprocket and where it is i understand that it is a pain but i dont have the resources to fund an upgrade to the actual hpfp i guess if you are going to develop one i may just wait for that well see
    I wouldn't wait for one. We've all been waiting for years for someone to make it. I encourage you to continue with your approach and ideas. This fosters innovation and, if nothing else, good learning experiences.
    Change is constant

  6. #106
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    i will there will be high quality pics posted soon

    so i ordered this 11417516128 its the sprocket on the vacuum pump which is the piece that the hpfp runs off of. im going to have a friend cad design it and make it smaller to over drive the pump. Now i just need to figure out how much i want to overdrive it. i have seen some logs that it drops off at around 4000rpm and picks back up around 5000rpm so i think im going to calculate it so that at around 3500rpm it spins as fast as it does at 4500-5000rpm. i think that this would allow it to spin fast enough to make the fuel i need and potentially will need in the future when i run 100% e85 and the boost i want (30-35psi)
    i can't remember why no one else has tried to underdrive it, will be good to see what results you get

    i don't know how happy it would be when you're in UPPER RPM's though? or what about lower/idle when it's spinning slightly too fast?
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    You are opening a can of worms here, have you actually been into where that sprocket is? Getting to it is very difficult, then you have the issue of removing the chain (extremely difficult) and installing a shorter one for the smaller sprocket, or removing links, which who knows of it will weaken the chain. Don't forget that chain also controls cam timing which is very critical and very very easy to get one tooth off etc. Of all the ways to get this done. This is by far the most time consuming, for possible marginal gains. As soon as we get the rest of these stage 2's out the door and caught up on our industrial stuff, out next goal is to attack the HPFP. With a solution that will not only solve the fueling issue but be, easy to install. 2014 will be a good year for N54/55.
    how does it control cam timing?

    there are two separate chains, one long one for the cam sprockets, and a shorter one that reaches the vac pump/HPFP and oil pump... and they're run off different sprockets on the crank shaft.

    http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...52&hg=11&fg=30

    >

    http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...58&hg=11&fg=45

    removing either sprocket to install the shortened chain would make the cam chain loose though yeah, would have to lock the camshafts in place just in case, especially poking around all under there for a while.

    the actual sprocket in the second picture isn't TOO hard to get to though, it's just behind that plastic disc thing, behind all the belt tensioners and pulleys? fun job also having to do the accessory belt though...

    as Tony said, i'd still be worried about getting the chain length right.. physically doable for sure though Click here to enlarge

    I really do wonder how it'll like spinning faster than it expects... does anyone have an idea on that? i can't see it increasing longevity? haha
    Last edited by Flinchy; 01-02-2014 at 03:52 AM.
    boop

  8. #108
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    ED to above: 3500>4500rpm is a roughly 30% increase in speed? 6000rpm is now spinning like 7800rpm, 7000rpm is spinning like 9100rpm... would be a good idea to test if it breaks at those speeds first? far far far far higher than it's ever been run?
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    ED to above: 3500>4500rpm is a roughly 30% increase in speed? 6000rpm is now spinning like 7800rpm, 7000rpm is spinning like 9100rpm... would be a good idea to test if it breaks at those speeds first? far far far far higher than it's ever been run?
    Assuming those % deltas are guestimates? Would be best if there was a means of testing this outside of the motor. Would take some chutzpah to test that on the car if the chain decides it wants to come apart.
    Best of luck OP.
    E88 N54 w stuff
    F30 335 X-Drive EBII....PPK otherwise Stock
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Assuming those % deltas are guestimates? Would be best if there was a means of testing this outside of the motor. Would take some chutzpah to test that on the car if the chain decides it wants to come apart.
    Best of luck OP.
    well he said he wants to spin 4500rpm @ 3500rpm overdriven.. which works out to 28.5%, but i'm lazy and rounded up lol.

    i could see the HPFP failing a lot sooner than you'd like spinning like that is all.
    boop

  11. #111
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    You may also want to keep in mind overdriving this pump is most likely going to yield very little in the way of increased fuel delivery. These pumps are very much like a diesel fuel injection pump, they use a head and rotor and specifically sizes chambers to compress the fuel. Spinning the pump faster isn't going to allow any more fuel into the chambers to be compressed and delivered. So you may get through with the all the work required to do this and find you have no more fuel than you did previously. I know of sucks to hear but I think trying to go with an overdrive sprocket on the pump is just not worth the effort.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    You may also want to keep in mind overdriving this pump is most likely going to yield very little in the way of increased fuel delivery. These pumps are very much like a diesel fuel injection pump, they use a head and rotor and specifically sizes chambers to compress the fuel. Spinning the pump faster isn't going to allow any more fuel into the chambers to be compressed and delivered. So you may get through with the all the work required to do this and find you have no more fuel than you did previously. I know of sucks to hear but I think trying to go with an overdrive sprocket on the pump is just not worth the effort.
    What's up Tony? Is your thinking still that a second HPFP would be the best solution? I'm just thinking to the degreee of a lot of these single turbo builds, including my own, I don't see it out of the question to make room for a second pump. I don't people may not want to hear about the expense, but just like the Diesels, yeah $2-3k is expensive for a fuel setup, but once done, you virtually never have to worry about fuel shortage again.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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  13. #113
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    I understand that overdriving the pump wont increase the inner displacement but it will increase the turn over rate of the pump instead of working 100times a minute it will be working 120 or whatever
    Click here to enlarge

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    The HPFP can move Xcfm fuel from the chamber to rail with each rotation… increase the rotations = more volume. The actual increase “should” be somewhat linear. The higher speed could be outside the pumps design limits, but BMW seems to have good headroom generally. Decreasing the gear dia is a simple concept, but getting to it does seem quite difficult. Go for it!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    The HPFP can move Xcfm fuel from the chamber to rail with each rotation… increase the rotations = more volume. The actual increase “should” be somewhat linear. The higher speed could be outside the pumps design limits, but BMW seems to have good headroom generally. Decreasing the gear dia is a simple concept, but getting to it does seem quite difficult. Go for it!
    Exactly i have the sprocket it will be cad designed and tried out when i have time
    Click here to enlarge

  16. #116
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    Really looking forward to this. Parts wise should be inexpensive, will be interesting to hear what you have to say on approximate hours to do the work after you've done it and hopefully show a nice improvement. Have you thought about adding a second pump though?
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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  17. #117
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    I have thought about a second pump i have thought about running one that drives off the same drive that drives the stock hpfp you would uninstall your oem hpfp and then install a piece that hooks up gets driven by the oem location and a gear drives 2 outputs so then you just bolt on 2 hpfps the other option would be a belt driven option of the oem hpfp just with an output for a beltdrive and run a longer belt my only concern with belt driven is slip but the belt drive option could be done much easier
    Click here to enlarge

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    I just has my eyes in the hole with this sprocket again on an engine on a stand, that chains going into the bowels of the front of the motor behind the dampner etc. It woukd be a huge job with the engine out if the car, with it in the car. Man the amount of work is pretty steep for unknown gains. Examining the chain, no way you can shorten it. That's means pulling it and having a custom chain made as well. For a one off upgrade it might be worth it, but as a solution, unlikely. But I'm def in for results if you can pull it off.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I just has my eyes in the hole with this sprocket again on an engine on a stand, that chains going into the bowels of the front of the motor behind the dampner etc. It woukd be a huge job with the engine out if the car, with it in the car. Man the amount of work is pretty steep for unknown gains. Examining the chain, no way you can shorten it. That's means pulling it and having a custom chain made as well. For a one off upgrade it might be worth it, but as a solution, unlikely. But I'm def in for results if you can pull it off.

    i think i am going to open up so i can see it and play with the chain i may be able to just replace the sprocket and make it smaller and then run a spacer or cnc'd part for the chain tensonier because replacing the chain is wayy too much work considering you have to pull the head
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    You may also want to keep in mind overdriving this pump is most likely going to yield very little in the way of increased fuel delivery. These pumps are very much like a diesel fuel injection pump, they use a head and rotor and specifically sizes chambers to compress the fuel. Spinning the pump faster isn't going to allow any more fuel into the chambers to be compressed and delivered. So you may get through with the all the work required to do this and find you have no more fuel than you did previously. I know of sucks to hear but I think trying to go with an overdrive sprocket on the pump is just not worth the effort.
    wouldn't it be able to fill the chambers more times per rpm though which is effectively the same thing?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    What's up Tony? Is your thinking still that a second HPFP would be the best solution? I'm just thinking to the degreee of a lot of these single turbo builds, including my own, I don't see it out of the question to make room for a second pump. I don't people may not want to hear about the expense, but just like the Diesels, yeah $2-3k is expensive for a fuel setup, but once done, you virtually never have to worry about fuel shortage again.
    where could you possibly fit another pump and HPFP though? and how would you drive it? off the accessory belt? :/

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    i think i am going to open up so i can see it and play with the chain i may be able to just replace the sprocket and make it smaller and then run a spacer or cnc'd part for the chain tensonier because replacing the chain is wayy too much work considering you have to pull the head
    you wouldn't have to pull the head to get the chain off, just the valve cover off and lock the cams in place so they don't go out of alignment.. and take the crank bolt off to get to the sprocket there...

    and probably having to remove the whole front of the car to actually have easy access to everything.. ew.
    Last edited by Flinchy; 01-03-2014 at 12:27 AM.
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
    I wouldn't wait for one. We've all been waiting for years for someone to make it. I encourage you to continue with your approach and ideas. This fosters innovation and, if nothing else, good learning experiences.
    I couldn't agree more with this.

    The guys that figure out the best solution should get a Nobel prize IMO.

  22. #122
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    Does anyone know or can predict how the ecu would react to 2 hpfps? Run in parallel using the same signal for the regulators
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    Does anyone know or can predict how the ecu would react to 2 hpfps? Run in parallel using the same signal for the regulators
    @Terry@BMS @dzenno@PTF @VargasTurboTech I think they'd have the best input in that department.
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  24. #124
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BTMFR Click here to enlarge
    Does anyone know or can predict how the ecu would react to 2 hpfps? Run in parallel using the same signal for the regulators
    I think the N63 runs two hpfps doesn't it?

  25. #125
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think the N63 runs two hpfps doesn't it?
    Yep. Two separate pumps, one for each fuel rail.

    I actually the N54's approach is superior, flaws and all.
    E88 N54 w stuff
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