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  1. #101
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlownE92M3 Click here to enlarge
    Honestly, at the end of the day, anything can be made fast, if the finances are available and you're willing to spend them. We have 7 sec hondas now days to show this. Both cars are great platforms, but one serves a different purpose. Both and pro's and con's. Both are enjoyable for what they are designed for. End of the day comes down to personal preference and budget.
    I completely agree with you here.

    I just wish you did more runs between the two. Grab a couple go pros, go from various speeds, etc. Hell show the M3 getting stomped from a dig. Show the M3 going from a second gear roll when at 6500 rpm. There is no doubt your GTR is faster as it has more power but the M3 should show stronger than it did in the one run we got.

    These are ultimately fun comparisons.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You going based on elapsed time? Who cares? Trap speed, trap speed, trap speed.

    Ok, the M3's you are referencing are all stock internal cars. They are internally limited. Why exactly would my car be losing to a bolt on GTR? My car already ran faster than many bolt on GTR's at Shift-Sector didn't it? So...?

    I love the GTR's potential. Don't get me wrong, I think your car is great. But I'm sick and tired of people discounting the M3. That's the main reason I have stuck with my car simply to show people what this thing can do. It's going to be mean as $#@! and rip bolt on GTR's a new $#@! and as well as some of the more serious cars as well. They are both great cars it's just a shame we can count people pushing the E92 M3 on one hand.
    Well, trap speed is a great indicator of a cars power, but ET shows how well the car can put it down. Having a ton of power is a great thing, and is fun as hell, but not being able to use it or put it down in the early gears is a waste of power imo. Too many people don't address suspension/tire/tune (ie Boost by gear/rpm) and just throw power at a vehicle. I think ET and trap are both equally important when dissecting a cars performance. I'm just comparing stock block/tranny GTR's and M3's. But even with the built blocks, there has yet to be a 9.xx sec pass yet out of a E9x chassis. I'm sure there will be, and can't wait to see yours tackle the 1/4. It's not a matter of you losing or winning, but the adherent disadvantage of you're car being RWD will make hooking alot more difficult, especially since your north of 800hp. I have no doubt, once you guys dial in the suspension/tire we will see some single digit time slips. I think it really comes down to $$$$. I was considering building the M3 and going with a YSI setup on E85 this winter, but i couldn't get past the pricetag of that build. The M tax is worse then the GTR tax ironically. I'm still less then 10k into the GTR for mods, and it is at 638hp/718tq and I know for a fact she will run into the 10's up here. The blower alone on my m3 cost me 16k and I was only at 525hp before we did some in-house changes at AR Design to get the M3 to 613hp.
    -08 E92 Brushed Steel DCT 613hp-
    -ESS/AR 700 - KW V3's - AR Design - Volk TE37 - Vorsteiner - Challenge-
    -2012 Brushed Red Aluminum GTR-
    - Jacks 3.8 w/ Jacks heads - Jacks Drag 800 w/ billet gears - AAM GT-900R - Swift - ADV.1 - Ecutek via Visconti -
    - 1060hp 852tq 32psi - 9.34 @150mph 7688ft DA - 185.5mph 1/2 mile 9240ft DA -
    http://www.jackstransmissions.com/
    http://store.vtune.us/
    http://www.revvolution.com/

  3. #103
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I completely agree with you here.

    I just wish you did more runs between the two. Grab a couple go pros, go from various speeds, etc. Hell show the M3 getting stomped from a dig. Show the M3 going from a second gear roll when at 6500 rpm. There is no doubt your GTR is faster as it has more power but the M3 should show stronger than it did in the one run we got.

    These are ultimately fun comparisons.
    Oh I plan on it. Im tearing the M3 down to stock next week, but im going to fill the tank with 105 and get some more runs on film. a 20, 40, 50 roll and a dig.
    -08 E92 Brushed Steel DCT 613hp-
    -ESS/AR 700 - KW V3's - AR Design - Volk TE37 - Vorsteiner - Challenge-
    -2012 Brushed Red Aluminum GTR-
    - Jacks 3.8 w/ Jacks heads - Jacks Drag 800 w/ billet gears - AAM GT-900R - Swift - ADV.1 - Ecutek via Visconti -
    - 1060hp 852tq 32psi - 9.34 @150mph 7688ft DA - 185.5mph 1/2 mile 9240ft DA -
    http://www.jackstransmissions.com/
    http://store.vtune.us/
    http://www.revvolution.com/

  4. #104
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlownE92M3 Click here to enlarge
    Well, trap speed is a great indicator of a cars power, but ET shows how well the car can put it down.
    Essentially we're talking about power potential. It's understood all wheel drive will have an easier time putting the power down.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlownE92M3 Click here to enlarge
    but not being able to use it or put it down in the early gears is a waste of power imo.
    It depends what your goals are. I haven't really had any trouble putting power down on a drag strip.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlownE92M3 Click here to enlarge
    I think ET and trap are both equally important when dissecting a cars performance.
    One shows horsepower and the other shows how it is prepped for the drag strip. Rear wheel drive cars excel on the strip but they need to be prepped for it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlownE92M3 Click here to enlarge
    But even with the built blocks, there has yet to be a 9.xx sec pass yet out of a E9x chassis.
    I don't think any built E92 M3 has hit the strip up to this point.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlownE92M3 Click here to enlarge
    but the adherent disadvantage of you're car being RWD will make hooking alot more difficult, especially since your north of 800hp.
    Like I said plenty of high horsepower rear wheel drive cars hook and rule the strip.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlownE92M3 Click here to enlarge
    I think it really comes down to $$$$. I was considering building the M3 and going with a YSI setup on E85 this winter, but i couldn't get past the pricetag of that build.
    It's absurdly expensive.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlownE92M3 Click here to enlarge
    I'm still less then 10k into the GTR for mods, and it is at 638hp/718tq and I know for a fact she will run into the 10's up here. The blower alone on my m3 cost me 16k and I was only at 525hp before we did some in-house changes at AR Design to get the M3 to 613hp.
    I don't disagree with your premise at all.

  5. #105
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlownE92M3 Click here to enlarge
    Oh I plan on it. Im tearing the M3 down to stock next week, but im going to fill the tank with 105 and get some more runs on film. a 20, 40, 50 roll and a dig.
    Awesome man.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Essentially we're talking about power potential. It's understood all wheel drive will have an easier time putting the power down.



    It depends what your goals are. I haven't really had any trouble putting power down on a drag strip.



    One shows horsepower and the other shows how it is prepped for the drag strip. Rear wheel drive cars excel on the strip but they need to be prepped for it.



    I don't think any built E92 M3 has hit the strip up to this point.



    Like I said plenty of high horsepower rear wheel drive cars hook and rule the strip.



    It's absurdly expensive.



    I don't disagree with your premise at all.
    So your're saying no built M3's have hit the track, but yours hasn't had issues putting down the power? lol, obviously you haven't been to the track yet and wont be until your trans is done, but what kind of power were you putting down last time you did go to the track? Just curious, and what tire you used.

    Man, I don't think anyone is doubting the power potential of the S65, but at the end of the day the most powerful S65 is yours with a 775whp dyno, and estimated real power now at somewhere around 925whp? Right? And VR38 has gotten up to 2000whp? And many, many, many at 1000+whp.

    I will be very interested in the pulls done with 105 put in Blowne92m3's M3, but just for entertainment.

    I agree with you though, it is sad how few people are pushing the e92M3 platform. Would like to start seeing some TT setups, but honestly with bar set so high by the SL TT's, and GTR's, I just don't see many RWD cars have a chance. Lets hope BMW starts offering some AWD M's. I really wanna see some big single turbo 335xi's.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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  7. #107
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    So your're saying no built M3's have hit the track, but yours hasn't had issues putting down the power? lol
    I'm not sure what you aren't understanding.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    obviously you haven't been to the track yet and wont be until your trans is done, but what kind of power were you putting down last time you did go to the track? Just curious, and what tire you used.
    Mickey Thompson drag radials have worked for me. How are these cars hooking on a 275 drag radial?



    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Man, I don't think anyone is doubting the power potential of the S65, but at the end of the day the most powerful S65 is yours with a 775whp dyno, and estimated real power now at somewhere around 925whp? Right? And VR38 has gotten up to 2000whp? And many, many, many at 1000+whp.
    What do you want me to do? Force everyone to do turbos? Here's an S85 at 1850 whp: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...85-V10-monster

    So considering the S65 is a 4.0 liter version of the that what do you think it could do if it got a turbo build like that?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    I just don't see many RWD cars have a chance
    The Ford GT is rear wheel drive and killing the cars you mentioned when it comes to raw power and performance. All wheel drive is not the be all end all.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm not sure what you aren't understanding.



    Mickey Thompson drag radials have worked for me. How are these cars hooking on a 275 drag radial?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uk-FbBGz4Q



    What do you want me to do? Force everyone to do turbos? Here's an S85 at 1850 whp: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...85-V10-monster

    So considering the S65 is a 4.0 liter version of the that what do you think it could do if it got a turbo build like that?



    The Ford GT is rear wheel drive and killing the cars you mentioned when it comes to raw power and performance. All wheel drive is not the be all end all.
    I think you can make as much power as you want with enough $$$, however the trans you have decided to use is the weak point here. I guess we will have to see how reliable the built trans will be when ever it gets done. Hope it's not a few runs and then back to the drawing board for a few years.

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    Also Sticky those high HP cars running a drag radial normally are running drag suspension. I doubt you are going to be driving your M3 like that. Or I could be wrong.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLV335I Click here to enlarge
    Also Sticky those high HP cars running a drag radial normally are running drag suspension. I doubt you are going to be driving your M3 like that. Or I could be wrong.
    They are running drag suspension but my point was to illustrate rear wheel drive cars can hook and hook well.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLV335I Click here to enlarge
    I think you can make as much power as you want with enough $$$, however the trans you have decided to use is the weak point here. I guess we will have to see how reliable the built trans will be when ever it gets done. Hope it's not a few runs and then back to the drawing board for a few years.
    The GTR is doing fine with more torque isn't it? Nobody has really upgraded the BMW DCT and that's the problem. This thing is going to take much more torque than my blower will ever be capable of putting out.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The GTR is doing fine with more torque isn't it? Nobody has really upgraded the BMW DCT and that's the problem. This thing is going to take much more torque than my blower will ever be capable of putting out.
    Lets hope so. One day I'm sure all of us will see. Good luck.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They are running drag suspension but my point was to illustrate rear wheel drive cars can hook and hook well.
    I agree with you. However it's not going to be as easy as you made it sound with the HP you are talking about and your current suspension setup.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLV335I Click here to enlarge
    I agree with you. However it's not going to be as easy as you made it sound with the HP you are talking about and your current suspension setup.
    By no means am I saying it will be easy. I think I will be able to show a good ET and trap. We'll find out Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    By no means am I saying it will be easy. I think I will be able to show a good ET and trap. We'll find out Click here to enlarge
    Hope it's soon. I want to see what this thing will run. I know I know. You want to know even more than anyone. Lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLV335I Click here to enlarge
    Hope it's soon. I want to see what this thing will run. I know I know. You want to know even more than anyone. Lol
    It will come. No stress here it will all come together and then there won't be much of anything left to say.

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    Ugr lambos run r888's and hook just fine.
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  18. #118
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    So I guess there's no convincing you the GTR is a better performance car huh? Ellwell...lol
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It doesn't lag behind in max HP potential it's ahead in max HP potential and always will be. This is strictly a paper debate a this point but they are both going to be close theoretically with the edge going to the S65. Honestly, just take an S85 then and you can essentially do what UGR does with the Gallardo. That should be the model right there on theoretical potential.

    Yes, you're right, the VR block is nice. I like it, definitely. It does have thicker cylinder walls and the points you mentioned. It's prepped from the factory way better for big torque.

    The S65 was designed to be lightweight and rev higher. So, if you prep the block for forced induction and not for the roadcourse why exactly won't it make big power? It will not need as much torque to make as much power. If you have equal torque in both cars but the M3 has it at 8400 rpm, it will always have more power potential.

    I can go look for the S65 head info but I really don't feel like scouring forums I don't even post on any longer.

    Head flow isn't as critical as NA maybe but you still want the best heads you possibly can have. You can't just keep cranking boost and increasing heat forever.
    This is your problem right here you think # cylinders + displacement= max hp potential but that couldnt be further from the truth. You need a good base to start with and there isnt much you can do to "prep the block for FI" aside from sleeving the block. And while that helps that creats another host of problems. Having all those things the VR has stock is more than nice, they are essential to making big power and a reason why so many tuning companies have gotten behind the GTR. imagine trying to keep the heads sealed with that thin deck surface and small head studs, or keep from eating bearing or the crank from walking without good mains support. Lots of things you simply cant alter to make what is meant as a light weight NA block compete with a brick $#@! house of FI block. And btw that s85 you posted is in no way comparable to the VR's making insane power on street driven cars. One filled block running 6 seconds at a time (and never really even being run its nothing more than a dyno queen) isnt in the least the same as
    a car running a full mile pass after pass then run on the streets making more power overall.

  20. #120
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    So I guess there's no convincing you the GTR is a better performance car huh? Ellwell...lol
    The better car isn't the faster one or the one that is easier to modify. It's the one that is more fun to drive. GT3 > GTR no matter what the whp the GTR ever hits. M3 as well, it's just more fun to drive. Some people just don't get it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    This is your problem right here you think # cylinders + displacement= max hp potential but that couldnt be further from the truth. You need a good base to start with and there isnt much you can do to "prep the block for FI" aside from sleeving the block. And while that helps that creats another host of problems. Having all those things the VR has stock is more than nice, they are essential to making big power and a reason why so many tuning companies have gotten behind the GTR. imagine trying to keep the heads sealed with that thin deck surface and small head studs, or keep from eating bearing or the crank from walking without good mains support. Lots of things you simply cant alter to make what is meant as a light weight NA block compete with a brick $#@! house of FI block. And btw that s85 you posted is in no way comparable to the VR's making insane power on street driven cars. One filled block running 6 seconds at a time (and never really even being run its nothing more than a dyno queen) isnt in the least the same as
    a car running a full mile pass after pass then run on the streets making more power overall.
    I didn't equate anything to cylinder count I stated the S65 is essentially a chopped off S85. Not sure why you didn't understand that.

    Yes you need a good base to start with and what's wrong with sleeving the block? I posted a sleeved S85 making over 1800 horsepower. So what's the problem with the block holding big power exactly when built for it? Yeah I know it's not a street car we are making some theoretical points on power potential here aren't we? Well clearly if you give the S85 big turbos it will make big power just like an S65 will also with big turbos. It isn't my fault nobody has done that in a street application. It's coming though.

    I'm not saying the GTR isn't nice. I'm saying the S65 is better than people realize.

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    Very speed car Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The better car isn't the faster one or the one that is easier to modify. It's the one that is more fun to drive. GT3 > GTR no matter what the whp the GTR ever hits. M3 as well, it's just more fun to drive. Some people just don't get it.
    I would agree with you if you had a manual trans. We are talking about fun not what's faster shifting.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLV335I Click here to enlarge
    I would agree with you if you had a manual trans. We are talking about fun not what's faster shifting.
    Last I checked some of the world's best driver's cars come with a dual clutch now. The option exists in the M3 if one wants a manual. I'll take the dual clutch.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The better car isn't the faster one or the one that is easier to modify. It's the one that is more fun to drive. GT3 > GTR no matter what the whp the GTR ever hits. M3 as well, it's just more fun to drive. Some people just don't get it.
    I dont believe you have ever driven a GTR before. While its true that the car works so damn well in stock form that it can seem dull, add a couple hundred hp and its transformed into a very fun ride. The problem is it takes every bit of the 565hp stock and feels too composed. An 850whp GTR is a hell of a track car.

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