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  1. #51
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Slaughtered? Really? And what does a 'stock sized' turbo GTR put out?

    The S65 needs turbos to push into that upper echelon. The motor is bigger, it revs higher, the heads flow better. It ultimately can always make more horsepower. You don't have tuners tackling it the same way.
    Slaughtered perhaps was an offensive word and what I mean is even though your car is the highest hp M3 it wouldn't be much of a race vs even a stock housing turbo let alone the aftermarket manifold and turbo kit cars. The highest hp stock housing gtr ive seen is 1073awhp but they are typically around 1000awhp. But we are talking bottom 9.01-9.10 cars that run high 4's 60-130 so no it wouldnt be much of a race.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It better be.
    If you are playing on going out there why didn't you sign up for the roll racing event? You would be the only bmw there out of 120 cars registered. If it does happen to be ready consider this a call out to run my car Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forcefed Click here to enlarge
    The GTR has more torque EVERYWHERE. Go look at any dyno graph of a GTR with bolt ons.
    What the hell are you trying to say? Ok, and? So? This changes how horsepower functions exactly how? An M3 doesn't need the same amount of torque to make the same power and crank torque doesn't equal axle torque.

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    what I mean is even though your car is the highest hp M3 it wouldn't be much of a race vs even a stock housing turbo let alone the aftermarket manifold and turbo kit cars. The highest hp stock housing gtr ive seen is 1073awhp but they are typically around 1000awhp.
    Not only would it be a race I'd come out on top. Guess you'll have to wait and see.

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    If you are playing on going out there why didn't you sign up for the roll racing event? You would be the only bmw there out of 120 cars registered. If it does happen to be ready consider this a call out to run my car Click here to enlarge
    Ok that's fine.

    I didn't sign up as I don't even have my car?

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Not only would it be a race I'd come out on top. Guess you'll have to wait and see.
    I would be very shocked if your car made it out for tx2k but if you do I got a buddy that make just under 1kwhp on his stock housing GTR I can for sure set this up.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ok that's fine.

    I didn't sign up as I don't even have my car?
    Well it just seemed that you were very confident that it would be done in time so I would think it prudent to sign up. Anyways all the spots are taken now but they have a waiting list and people are giving up some spots, might want to get on that. Btw I am #43 on the list and my GTR is in a million pieces at the moment but I booked hotels and all that already as im confident it will be done in time. Would be great coverage for you as there are some real heavy hitters on that list.


    http://tx2k.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    I would be very shocked if your car made it out for tx2k but if you do I got a buddy that make just under 1kwhp on his stock housing GTR I can for sure set this up.
    That's perfect.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Well it just seemed that you were very confident that it would be done in time so I would think it prudent to sign up.
    I'm not confident it will be done I just think they definitely should finish before that time frame. I expect them to essentially.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Would be great coverage for you as there are some real heavy hitters on that list.
    I agree but I have missed so many events in the past and not gotten my money back I think this time I'll sign up AFTER I have the car. I'll try to squeeze in somehow.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    That's perfect.



    I'm not confident it will be done I just think they definitely should finish before that time frame. I expect them to essentially.



    I agree but I have missed so many events in the past and not gotten my money back I think this time I'll sign up AFTER I have the car. I'll try to squeeze in somehow.
    Hey, if you don't make it there's always FL2k14 next fall lol
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

    Click here to enlarge

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    I'm in no way surprised by the results. I love both cars but you have to remember the GTR was benchmarked against a 997 Turbo during it's development while the M3 has always been benchmarked against Carrera's, base Corvette's, etc. So it will always take way more for a M3 to compete at these levels than the GTR or any of the GTR's competitors. Just like @Jimefam said, the record for a stock GTR is 9.0 so that says a lot about the higher tuning ceiling you're given by the Nissan. I can't wait til people start to say "f%$k it!" and build low compression turbo e9x M3's tho...Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    /
    //A L E X A N D R E 1983 Photography///ALX1983.COM

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What the hell are you trying to say? Ok, and? So? This changes how horsepower functions exactly how? An M3 doesn't need the same amount of torque to make the same power and crank torque doesn't equal axle torque.
    Your lack of understanding of physics on even the most elementary level makes it impossible to have the ongoing conversation. You clearly aren't seeing the large picture, are not comprehending what I'm saying, or are not reading my posts in their entirety. More torque is better, thats what I've already said and will say once more. I won't entertain anymore responses on the topic.

    No matter what RPM you are at, more torque is better than less torque.

    M3 vs. GTR and power bands aside, I am talking torque by its self.
    Last edited by Forcefed; 12-29-2013 at 11:10 PM.
    Click here to enlarge


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    The M3 is really no comparison to the GTR they are just in different leagues especially when modified. Not many street cars can run with fully built GTR's ... UGR Gallardos/R8's/Aventadors and Big Turbo 911's are what you should compare to that car. RPM that you keep holding onto with the s65/m3 really is moot when compared to these cars you have GTR's with the right valve train,heads,cams, top end revving out to 9K with ALOT more torque at those high rpms. Even if you don't go crazy on the top end of the gtr and keep relatively low it still has SO MUCH MORE torque than the m3 that it won't matter where it revs to and with what kind of gear ratio. The GTR has so much power under the curve even if it drops to 5500 rpm after a shift it has the torque to rip it to its peak horsepower range while the m3 needs the tight spread to keep its centri in its peak boost range. And than of course you have the traction issues when going high hp or big torque with turbos on the m3. Its not really a stab at you its just the gtr is so strong there is not much that can run with them. You should be gunning for other cars like Weistecs CLK, Big blower vettes/camaros/mustangs etc that are in that class

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forcefed Click here to enlarge
    Your lack of understanding of physics on even the most elementary level makes it impossible to have the ongoing conversation. You clearly aren't seeing the large picture, are not comprehending what I'm saying, or are not reading my posts in their entirety. More torque is better, thats what I've already said and will say once more. I won't entertain anymore responses on the topic.

    No matter what RPM you are at, more torque is better than less torque.

    M3 vs. GTR and power bands aside, I am talking torque by its self.
    Exactly I understand what you mean. 2 cars both making 600 wheel at 7500 rpm but car A has a centri that has a lower torque curve building with rpm and car B has a twin screw with a torque curve that looks like a table top. Car B will be pulling because you are not perpetually living at its 7500 rpm peak. Its all about gear ratios where the rpms drop to and what the average horsepower is during that window to redline ... the car with more torque will obviously have more average horsepower

    Thats why the weistec c63 BS pulled on the ESS VT-700 even tho the m3 had more peak horsepower and lower weight. A lot more torque and big power during your post shift RPM window will do that as you are trying to get across

  13. #63
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    Edit double post
    Last edited by ezec63; 12-30-2013 at 04:04 AM. Reason: double post

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    Exactly I understand what you mean. 2 cars both making 600 wheel at 7500 rpm but car A has a centri that has a lower torque curve building with rpm and car B has a twin screw with a torque curve that looks like a table top. Car B will be pulling because you are not perpetually living at its 7500 rpm peak. Its all about gear ratios where the rpms drop to and what the average horsepower is during that window to redline ... the car with more torque will obviously have more average horsepower

    Thats why the weistec c63 BS pulled on the ESS VT-700 even tho the m3 had more peak horsepower and lower weight. A lot more torque and big power during your post shift RPM window will do that as you are trying to get across
    yes we ALLLL KNOW THIS but some people just won't get it...Click here to enlarge

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    I'm in no way surprised by the results. I love both cars but you have to remember the GTR was benchmarked against a 997 Turbo during it's development while the M3 has always been benchmarked against Carrera's, base Corvette's, etc. So it will always take way more for a M3 to compete at these levels than the GTR or any of the GTR's competitors. Just like @Jimefam said, the record for a stock GTR is 9.0 so that says a lot about the higher tuning ceiling you're given by the Nissan. I can't wait til people start to say "f%$k it!" and build low compression turbo e9x M3's tho...Click here to enlarge
    The tuning ceiling isn't higher it's that the car is turbocharged from the factory. The 4.0 liter V8 has more potential.

    If we had as many tuners doing turbo setups on the S65 as we do the GTR things would look different.

  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    Exactly I understand what you mean. 2 cars both making 600 wheel at 7500 rpm but car A has a centri that has a lower torque curve building with rpm and car B has a twin screw with a torque curve that looks like a table top. Car B will be pulling because you are not perpetually living at its 7500 rpm peak. Its all about gear ratios where the rpms drop to and what the average horsepower is during that window to redline ... the car with more torque will obviously have more average horsepower

    Thats why the weistec c63 BS pulled on the ESS VT-700 even tho the m3 had more peak horsepower and lower weight. A lot more torque and big power during your post shift RPM window will do that as you are trying to get across
    What you said here that should be clear is it is all about gear ratios and where the rpms drop. So more torque at 2000 rpm isn't doing anything for you in a race so the RPM matters quite a bit.

    Wonder if average horsepower versus peak horsepower will click for some. A car with a lower average HP rating but higher peak HP can win the race because it's ultimately power that rules and not torque. Let's all go race diesels why don't we.

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    No M3 not even Sticky's built M3 will get close to the high HP GTR's in any type of race. Like another poster said it would have a better chance with blown Vettes and some built AMG cars.

  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLV335I Click here to enlarge
    No M3 not even Sticky's built M3 will get close to the high HP GTR's in any type of race. Like another poster said it would have a better chance with blown Vettes and some built AMG cars.
    Nobody is saying my M3 will run with the 1500+ hp cars. To do so, I'd need 1500+ hp. To reach that, I'd need some big ass turbos.

    I'll run with and beat plenty of GTR's though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The tuning ceiling isn't higher it's that the car is turbocharged from the factory. The 4.0 liter V8 has more potential.

    If we had as many tuners doing turbo setups on the S65 as we do the GTR things would look different.
    But coming turbo'd from the factory gives it higher power potential stock compared to the M3...that's the higher ceiling right there. The GTR can reach powers levels stock that the a M3 needs to be built to reach. And i'll say it once again, we're talking about cars so the real limit of any good platform is how much one is willing to pay to play.

    Also, coming turbo isn't the only thing cause I'm quite sure the F8x M's will still have trouble beating '09 GTR's and in that scenario both cars are factory turbo'd.

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    But coming turbo'd from the factory gives it higher power potential stock compared to the M3...
    Of course but we aren't talking about stock cars here.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    Also, coming turbo isn't the only thing cause I'm quite sure the F8x M's will still have trouble beating '09 GTR's and in that scenario both cars are factory turbo'd.
    The M3 has the smaller motor. But... it's quite a bit lighter and has the higher redline.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Of course but we aren't talking about stock cars here.



    The M3 has the smaller motor. But... it's quite a bit lighter and has the higher redline.
    Since we're not talking about stock cars ... GTR's can be modified to rev to 9K like I mentioned earlier so the m3 won't have a redline advantage.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What you said here that should be clear is it is all about gear ratios and where the rpms drop. So more torque at 2000 rpm isn't doing anything for you in a race so the RPM matters quite a bit.

    Wonder if average horsepower versus peak horsepower will click for some. A car with a lower average HP rating but higher peak HP can win the race because it's ultimately power that rules and not torque. Let's all go race diesels why don't we.
    I think your the one not quite getting the point here that 4 members are trying to get across. Nobody is talking about torque at 2000 rpm. We are talking about your post shift window so if you shift at 8500 and drop to 6800 than the average horsepower from 6800 to 8500 is what really matters. More torque from 6800 to 8200 will pull a lot harder even from a roll. It's not just what's at your peak your not always living at 8500 rpm.

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    Since we're not talking about stock cars ... GTR's can be modified to rev to 9K like I mentioned earlier so the m3 won't have a redline advantage.
    Who is running 9k rpm on their GTR? Is the S65 better designed for higher revs?

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    I think your the one not quite getting the point here that 4 members are trying to get across. Nobody is talking about torque at 2000 rpm. We are talking about your post shift window so if you shift at 8500 and drop to 6800 than the average horsepower from 6800 to 8500 is what really matters. More torque from 6800 to 8200 will pull a lot harder even from a roll. It's not just what's at your peak your not always living at 8500 rpm.
    No that member said torque at any RPM is better. Your point about the RPM drop down just proved that wrong as it should. I wonder if he gets it now.

    Yep, so your torque at 2000 rpm doesn't mean anything when you are shifting at redline because you are building torque toward redline. You don't even need as much torque to have higher power. So even if your average torque is lower, your average power can be higher in your RPM window. How about that?

  25. #75
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    Brandon Jacobs' car redlines above 8k, http://gtr.alphaperformance.com/alph...pha-9-r35-gt-r and I've seen a vid of him beating a vt2-650 ess car in the owner's words, "easily"

    Click here to enlarge

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