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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dixchen Click here to enlarge
    Torque wins DIG races like these like it or not... Sorry for the M3 but....It is pretty obvious that the only time the M3 will see a little bit of a limelight of this race is in the gear that it starts the race at but after that when the GTR switches gear and goes into its peak torque again on the next gear..
    You're right, torque rules from a dig. But HP rules from a roll and the M3 on dropdown after each shift isn't giving up much of anything power wise despite a torque deficit down low.

    Also keep in mind, you're factoring in crank torque not axle torque.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dixchen Click here to enlarge
    t will be bus lengths ahead and not waiting for the M3 to claw back with its extra 1500 rpm up top. You can't move without torque.. That's always been the let down of this motor isn't it. Want it to rip the GTR? Bolt a pair of turbos to the v8 then we're talking serious.
    It's not a letdown it's a strength. The real disadvantage is traction due to all wheel drive down low. Launching at 6200 rpm do I really care about torque at 2500?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dixchen Click here to enlarge
    It's a great package round the track but for all out straight line power which the owner have justified of the GTR over it here and to be naive about it talking bout which speed it should have started off in gear to have a chance is just plain sore...
    It really isn't as to see max potential you have to be in the right gear. If you race a C6 Z06 in 6th gear at 60 miles per hour you can probably beat it with all kinds of cars, so what?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dixchen Click here to enlarge
    Been enough in many GTR's even a fully built 1050 whp AMS equipped car , there's just no refinement in the drive. Still a Jap after all...
    The car isn't my cup of tea and I think it's a robot. I appreciate your feedback.

  2. #27
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    The M3 is a very nice car and fun to drive as well. As the OP said it is much smoother than the GTR and dct's arent comparable. However as far as high hp straight line performance goes the M3 or any bmw will always be worlds behind the GTR. It is simply an inferior platform for that use and you can see as much by looking at the track record for each car seeing as they have been out about the same time. Sticky has the highest hp M3 I believe and his car would get slaughtered by a well built stock sized turbo gtr.

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    ballin out you are racing your own cars against each other

    What a G!!!

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    The M3 is a very nice car and fun to drive as well. As the OP said it is much smoother than the GTR and dct's arent comparable. However as far as high hp straight line performance goes the M3 or any bmw will always be worlds behind the GTR. It is simply an inferior platform for that use and you can see as much by looking at the track record for each car seeing as they have been out about the same time. Sticky has the highest hp M3 I believe and his car would get slaughtered by a well built stock sized turbo gtr.
    No he doesn't seem to think so... the M3 will always stand a chance no matter what the robot throws at it...Click here to enlarge

  5. #30
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    Torque ALWAYS helps, not just from a dig... and the GTR has a lot of it.
    Click here to enlarge


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by e92ttking Click here to enlarge
    ballin out you are racing your own cars against each other

    What a G!!!
    Right? I was thinking this same thing...ballin out hard with two badass whips. I know he's trying to sell the M3 though, he has a thread for it in the For Sale section.
    @Sticky, do you think your car will be ready for TX2k13?
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

    Click here to enlarge

  7. #32
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    I read this sometime ago and was a little surprised at the vid outcome. Need to look at the HP curve factoring gear ratios to get avg HP... this is the bottom line in a roll (along with weight and drag... drag becoming more a factor with speed of course). I do think the actual race time HPs are a little different then measured/estimated in this situation.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Sticky has the highest hp M3 I believe and his car would get slaughtered by a well built stock sized turbo gtr.
    Slaughtered? Really? And what does a 'stock sized' turbo GTR put out?

    The S65 needs turbos to push into that upper echelon. The motor is bigger, it revs higher, the heads flow better. It ultimately can always make more horsepower. You don't have tuners tackling it the same way.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forcefed Click here to enlarge
    Torque ALWAYS helps, not just from a dig... and the GTR has a lot of it.
    What is horsepower?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    @Sticky, do you think your car will be ready for TX2k13?
    It better be.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What is horsepower?
    Work divided by time. Work is done by torque. Torque always helps.
    Click here to enlarge


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forcefed Click here to enlarge
    Work divided by time. Work is done by torque. Torque always helps.
    Horsepower is torque but you can multiply it with revs. 500 pound-feet at 3000 rpm and 8000 rpm are very different things.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Horsepower is torque but you can multiply it with revs. 500 pound-feet at 3000 rpm and 8000 rpm are very different things.
    Yes, they are different. Is it still in effect, yes or no? I'll answer that: yes.
    Click here to enlarge


  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forcefed Click here to enlarge
    Yes, they are different. Is it still in effect, yes or no? I'll answer that: yes.
    Is it rpm dependent? It is.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Is it rpm dependent? It is.
    I'm not sure where we're going with this. More torque is better no matter what RPM you are at, its simple physics. Whether its more or less, its doing work.
    Click here to enlarge


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Slaughtered? Really? And what does a 'stock sized' turbo GTR put out?

    The S65 needs turbos to push into that upper echelon. The motor is bigger, it revs higher, the heads flow better. It ultimately can always make more horsepower. You don't have tuners tackling it the same way.
    It honestly puzzles me there aren't more higher powered kits available for the M3, I mean I look at what people spend on EVO's, STI's, Civic's, Supra's, GTR's, sometimes I don't think people realize what it takes to get a Supra or GTR to 1,000whp, and let me tell ya guys if you don't know...it takes a $#@!load of money, don't think for a second you can slap a 10k kit on one of those cars and go out and compete....so why no "Switzer" competitive kits for M3's?
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forcefed Click here to enlarge
    I'm not sure where we're going with this. More torque is better no matter what RPM you are at, its simple physics. Whether its more or less, its doing work.
    How is it better no matter what RPM you are at? The torque curve matters quite a bit.

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    It honestly puzzles me there aren't more higher powered kits available for the M3, I mean I look at what people spend on EVO's, STI's, Civic's, Supra's, GTR's, sometimes I don't think people realize what it takes to get a Supra or GTR to 1,000whp, and let me tell ya guys if you don't know...it takes a $#@!load of money, don't think for a second you can slap a 10k kit on one of those cars and go out and compete....so why no "Switzer" competitive kits for M3's?
    You won't see awesome stuff until the car is cheap and out of production. Just look at where the E46 M3 is getting to now.

    BMW also makes it a $#@! to work on these cars. It's as if they just absolutely hate their enthusiasts. I really do not understand it.

    The C7 Corvette is barely on the streets and there are already a ton of parts and kits.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You won't see awesome stuff until the car is cheap and out of production. Just look at where the E46 M3 is getting to now.

    BMW also makes it a $#@! to work on these cars. It's as if they just absolutely hate their enthusiasts. I really do not understand it.

    The C7 Corvette is barely on the streets and there are already a ton of parts and kits.
    I get the Corvette, it's a huge culture in itself with huge support, main problem with M3 IMO is it's just not rare. They are plentiful and everywhere. Last time I saw a GTR was FL2k13 back in October. Last time I saw an M3 was earlier today at the grocery store, no lie. Still a bit puzzling we haven't seen at least one company come out and do a big turbo kit on the M3.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

    Click here to enlarge

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    I get the Corvette, it's a huge culture in itself with huge support, main problem with M3 IMO is it's just not rare. They are plentiful and everywhere. Last time I saw a GTR was FL2k13 back in October. Last time I saw an M3 was earlier today at the grocery store, no lie. Still a bit puzzling we haven't seen at least one company come out and do a big turbo kit on the M3.
    Gintani is getting there.

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    How is it better no matter what RPM you are at? The torque curve matters quite a bit.
    You're not following.
    Click here to enlarge


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forcefed Click here to enlarge
    You're not following.
    I think it's the other way around.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think it's the other way around.
    Tell me how less torque would make your car faster. From a dig or a roll, take your choice and go ahead and expand upon the subject for us.
    Click here to enlarge


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forcefed Click here to enlarge
    Tell me how less torque would make your car faster. From a dig or a roll, take your choice and go ahead and expand upon the subject for us.
    Who said less torque would make your car faster? You seem to be missing I'm saying WHERE you have your torque is what matters.

    If you hit your torque peak at an rpm you are never at when racing how is it helping you? How is having a curve that peaks early and drops off hard before redline helping you? Why, so you can have more relaxed driving at 2000 rpm? Who gives a $#@!?

    I'm not sure what you aren't understanding.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Who said less torque would make your car faster? You seem to be missing I'm saying WHERE you have your torque is what matters.

    If you hit your torque peak at an rpm you are never at when racing how is it helping you? How is having a curve that peaks early and drops off hard before redline helping you? Why, so you can have more relaxed driving at 2000 rpm? Who gives a $#@!?

    I'm not sure what you aren't understanding.
    The GTR has more torque EVERYWHERE. Go look at any dyno graph of a GTR with bolt ons.
    Click here to enlarge


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