Close

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345
Results 101 to 120 of 120
  1. #101
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    514
    Rep Points
    313.6
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    No helix, no Cobb, no balls.

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Houston under a book
    Posts
    1,420
    Rep Points
    2,749.1
    Mentioned
    66 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by turbodan Click here to enlarge
    An aw cooler can achieve cooler iat than an aa cooler even with a smaller core. You guys are over analyzing and completely looking past physics. Water removes heat about 30x better than air. Add in the fact you can add ice to the resivioir and aw wins everytime.
    I would imagine with all the guys running meth here that you wouldn't overlook how well water cools air temps.
    Definitely. Although the big thing about meth and water injection is the phase change, that's where you suck the most heat out and that doesn't really apply to air to water intercoolers, but indeed everything you said is dead on air to water is superior and allows for a smaller, less restrictive core to handle the same heat.

    Only downsides are complexity and cost.

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,177
    Rep Points
    801.6
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    9


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Go buy an AW intercooler if you like. Let me know how it goes. Would love to see some back to back results. Click here to enlarge

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    7
    Rep Points
    16.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Go buy an AW intercooler if you like. Let me know how it goes. Would love to see some back to back results. Click here to enlarge
    +1.. need to see it in action

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    58
    Rep Points
    20.5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    If you want to see an aw to aa comparison many have been done before on many different vehicles. This isn't new tech. More expensive, yes to a point. More complex, yes. But this tech has been proven over and over and even oem uses them. The cost could easily be offset over a period of time with less meth use and better fuel economy.
    Mom just amazed that no one has made a kit for these cars yet. I dont own a 335 yet but I may have to build a kit after i pick one up

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,177
    Rep Points
    801.6
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    9


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by turbodan Click here to enlarge
    If you want to see an aw to aa comparison many have been done before on many different vehicles. This isn't new tech. More expensive, yes to a point. More complex, yes. But this tech has been proven over and over and even oem uses them. The cost could easily be offset over a period of time with less meth use and better fuel economy.
    Mom just amazed that no one has made a kit for these cars yet. I dont own a 335 yet but I may have to build a kit after i pick one up
    I have seen the data, which is what I am basing my opinion on. I would love to see the data on a 335i.

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    52
    Rep Points
    162.6
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    So cooling a subsonic flow decreases flow velocity and increases pressure apparently.
    Click here to enlarge

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,267
    Rep Points
    32,707.2
    Mentioned
    2130 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jewber Click here to enlarge
    So cooling a subsonic flow decreases flow velocity and increases pressure apparently.
    Click here to enlarge
    This is all I see:

    Click here to enlarge

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Houston under a book
    Posts
    1,420
    Rep Points
    2,749.1
    Mentioned
    66 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    Yes Reputation No
    @Jewber, your source is referring to Rayleigh flow. Before trying to apply this flow model to an intercooler system you have to think about the source of the energy entering into the flow through the system. In a Rayleigh system heat oftentimes leads to agitation of the gas and added entropy, but one should not consider these concepts linked together. Entropy can be added to a system without heat, and the reverse is also true. Stagnation pressure can be affected by both concepts as well... you can reduce stagnation pressure with or without changing the heat of the system depending on the energies involved if that makes sense. We are talking about a system with subsonic flows... not just that, incredibly subsonic flows, I think the flow through the intercooler is around 80mph max. I'm not saying that things like Rayleigh, Fanno and Isentropic flow are not important here as I think they are (especially Fanno probably since it takes into effect frictional forces), but these equations are more useful for things like jet engines IIRC.

    If someone could write up something on turbocharging through the perspective of these models I'd be interested in reading it. I'm much more familiar with isentropic flow models personally.

  10. #110
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Australia, Darwin
    Posts
    145
    Rep Points
    77.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Logs from a Godspeed cheapo FMIC,Click here to enlarge
    If i buy a helix at around $1200 $US delivered to Australia will I gain even 2 HP?

    Edit: Ambient temperature 33 degree C
    JB4 map 2
    Last edited by Brule; 12-23-2013 at 02:17 AM. Reason: add ambient temperature

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    3,343
    Rep Points
    1,445.6
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    15


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    I have seen the data, which is what I am basing my opinion on. I would love to see the data on a 335i.
    don't the S63's A/W intercoolers heat soak like crazy when being beaten on the track?

    plus... is there even enough room to fit an air to water in our bays? haha
    boop

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    3,343
    Rep Points
    1,445.6
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    15


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by turbodan Click here to enlarge
    An aw cooler can achieve cooler iat than an aa cooler even with a smaller core. You guys are over analyzing and completely looking past physics. Water removes heat about 30x better than air. Add in the fact you can add ice to the resivioir and aw wins everytime.
    I would imagine with all the guys running meth here that you wouldn't overlook how well water cools air temps.
    how does it REMOVE heat 30x faster?

    isn't it 30x the energy STORAGE, not speed of absorption?

    so with the heat differential, it could gain and shed heat faster... but eventually the water will reach an equilibrium (soaked) where it's no more efficient...?

    the ice thing is totally valid for 1/4 times... but if you want to look at a circuit/timeattack racing standpoint... how does the A>W intercooler stand up, once the water is happily sitting well above ambient with it's extra energy capacity?
    boop

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    3,343
    Rep Points
    1,445.6
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    15


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brendanrule Click here to enlarge
    Logs from a Godspeed cheapo FMIC,Click here to enlarge
    If i buy a helix at around $1200 $US delivered to Australia will I gain even 2 HP?

    Edit: Ambient temperature 33 degree C
    JB4 map 2
    for $1200, you'd probably be able to get whatever the hell sized bell intercooler you wanted shipped and mounts+piping fabricated.. with some spare change :/
    boop

  14. #114
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Australia, Darwin
    Posts
    145
    Rep Points
    77.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    $1200 US$ just to get helix intercooler delivered top Australia.

  15. #115
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    3,343
    Rep Points
    1,445.6
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    15


    Yes Reputation No
    shipping stuff over here does suck a bit Click here to enlarge... especially a large FMIC
    boop

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,177
    Rep Points
    801.6
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    9


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brendanrule Click here to enlarge
    Logs from a Godspeed cheapo FMIC,Click here to enlarge
    If i buy a helix at around $1200 $US delivered to Australia will I gain even 2 HP?

    Edit: Ambient temperature 33 degree C
    JB4 map 2
    For $1200 you could clean you nasty timing up. Get more octane, that's your first mod.

  17. #117
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Australia, Darwin
    Posts
    145
    Rep Points
    77.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Yea I should buy a barrel of E85 first

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Houston under a book
    Posts
    1,420
    Rep Points
    2,749.1
    Mentioned
    66 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    how does it REMOVE heat 30x faster?

    isn't it 30x the energy STORAGE, not speed of absorption?

    so with the heat differential, it could gain and shed heat faster... but eventually the water will reach an equilibrium (soaked) where it's no more efficient...?

    the ice thing is totally valid for 1/4 times... but if you want to look at a circuit/timeattack racing standpoint... how does the A>W intercooler stand up, once the water is happily sitting well above ambient with it's extra energy capacity?
    It's faster at removing heat for a set surface area than air. I don't know about 30x better but it's better. And you're right about capacity, total system capacity is still limited, someone above was trying to make that point. But it takes much longer to reach that capacity, which can be higher or lower than air to air depending on the design. Regardless, you can almost always have a similar capacity with less restriction/pressure loss though. As for gains... well, I'd prefer a less efficient air to air with a low pressure loss, a properly sized turbo, and e85. But that's just me.

  19. #119
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    3,343
    Rep Points
    1,445.6
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    15


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    It's faster at removing heat for a set surface area than air. I don't know about 30x better but it's better. And you're right about capacity, total system capacity is still limited, someone above was trying to make that point. But it takes much longer to reach that capacity, which can be higher or lower than air to air depending on the design. Regardless, you can almost always have a similar capacity with less restriction/pressure loss though. As for gains... well, I'd prefer a less efficient air to air with a low pressure loss, a properly sized turbo, and e85. But that's just me.
    i'd like to see it done, just to take it from theory to the real world

    but like you say.. a nice high quality simple air to air and E85 is pretty simple and proven lol
    boop

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cleveland TN
    Posts
    543
    Rep Points
    555.1
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    i'd like to see it done, just to take it from theory to the real world

    but like you say.. a nice high quality simple air to air and E85 is pretty simple and proven lol
    I agree I would love to see somebody try this. Since stock frame turbo's are already limited to how much and efficiently they can move air when turned up anybody have a rough "on paper" idea of the power benefits an air to water kit could give, without the addition of ice? On the downside either IC style I don't see plumbing improving much.
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, VTT Inlets, UR Intake, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, DSS Axles, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •