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  1. #1
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    Load Target Offset (Overboost)

    Couldn't find anything that touched on the title except one post. Its not entirely related to ATR but also TP, so that why this question was not posted in the ATR section.

    So far tested this table works on the 335is on it previous and latest ROMs . The Offset adds load that increases boost that can be dictated by gear

    However, this was tested on a IJEOS to see if it would have any affect on Load or boost and it absolutely did nothing

    Not sure if this table works based on ROM version or DME version MSD80 vs MSD81

    Has anyone played with this table on a non "IS" N54 and seen increase in load and boost in logs ?

    Non IS stock table (Used in Cobb's OTS maps also for the 335is)

    Click here to enlarge

    IS Stock table:

    Click here to enlarge

    Another thing to mention is that the P-Factor table on the 335is was developed around the Load Target Offset table. It is remotely difference from the P-Factor table on non IS models.

    This is where I believe BMW claimed the 8 second over boost feature on the stock IS which was based off of the Offset and P-Factor table

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    The table is only active on 335is and 1M software versions as far as I know.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The table is only active on 335is and 1M software versions as far as I know.
    Yes, because they have their owne overboost logic.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigHoncho Click here to enlarge
    Yes, because they have their owne overboost logic.
    Just shows BMW only bothers with modifying the software slightly to make an 'is' or 1M.

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    @Josh@Cobb any possibility of getting this to work on non-IS cars? I would love gear-based load offsets!
    Change is constant

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
    @Josh@Cobb any possibility of getting this to work on non-IS cars? I would love gear-based load offsets!
    The Load Target Offset (Overboost) is more than what it appears to be, well, from my perspective of it and how it actually works

    LTO allows boost means to overshoot boost request by a calculated limit without any throttle closures or timing pulls. It also makes up the difference of underboosting to keep boost means on target with boost request.

    The way it works, that I found, is Load Target + Load Target Offset = the calculated “allowed” boost means to overshoot boost request - calculated by Load target only. 95% of the time it keeps boost means on target, and in instances (a specific gear or all gears) where there is regular overshoots it allows it without DME interventions or having to mess with stock PIDs or overbloating the actual Load Target

    I figured out over the weekend how to use the table as I was having major overshoots with the Cobb OTS maps specific to ILAOS IS and IKAOS IS ROMs that I am aware of.

    I had to reach out to @Josh@Cobb for a solution as I was having the same issue with the PTF maps that was pounding my timing and TC at post shifts. Will be passing on more details to Josh after I am finished with my complete base map testing, unless he beat me to it over the weekend... Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by BuraQ; 12-09-2013 at 03:02 AM.

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    ​waow

    . /)/) .
    . (' .' ) .
    (")("))o
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
    - N54 6AT WR 711whp 637wtq-
    -N54 WR 1/4mile trap: 133.57mph- -

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Just shows BMW only bothers with modifying the software slightly to make an 'is' or 1M.
    Not sure what you mean as you know that there is far more to a 1M than software tweaks.

    Neil

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MDORPHN Click here to enlarge
    Not sure what you mean as you know that there is far more to a 1M than software tweaks.

    Neil
    Not in the engine.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Not in the engine.
    Quite right. Some of the early hype from the BMW marketing machine suggesting otherwise was bs.

    Of course, I'm very happy with my N54-motored 1M!

    Neil

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    It's not an M car. Just a 135i with a badge..
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
    - N54 6AT WR 711whp 637wtq-
    -N54 WR 1/4mile trap: 133.57mph- -

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
    It's not an M car. Just a 135i with a badge..
    Not sure if serious because if so I'm crying tears of joy.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Not sure if serious because if so I'm crying tears of joy.
    Im so SRS
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
    - N54 6AT WR 711whp 637wtq-
    -N54 WR 1/4mile trap: 133.57mph- -

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    Except for brakes, diff and suspension...

    Neil

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    And valve-cover, can't forget about the valve-cover.
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    The Load Target Offset (Overboost) is more than what it appears to be, well, from my perspective of it and how it actually works

    LTO allows boost means to overshoot boost request by a calculated limit without any throttle closures or timing pulls. It also makes up the difference of underboosting to keep boost means on target with boost request.

    The way it works, that I found, is Load Target + Load Target Offset = the calculated “allowed” boost means to overshoot boost request - calculated by Load target only. 95% of the time it keeps boost means on target, and in instances (a specific gear or all gears) where there is regular overshoots it allows it without DME interventions or having to mess with stock PIDs or overbloating the actual Load Target

    I figured out over the weekend how to use the table as I was having major overshoots with the Cobb OTS maps specific to ILAOS IS and IKAOS IS ROMs that I am aware of.

    I had to reach out to @Josh@Cobb for a solution as I was having the same issue with the PTF maps that was pounding my timing and TC at post shifts. Will be passing on more details to Josh after I am finished with my complete base map testing, unless he beat me to it over the weekend... Click here to enlarge
    You've done this on a non-IS car? If so, please post before and after tables along with your observed result. I'd love to learn.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
    You've done this on a non-IS car? If so, please post before and after tables along with your observed result. I'd love to learn.
    No I have not done it on a non IS car (and it worked) as the table is of null use to other N54 cars that are not an IS or 1M (don't know about the Z435is)

    I was merely explaining how the "offset" table works on the IS and more likely the 1M. So, if Josh@Cobb is able to miraculously pull it off by enabling this table for non IS and 1M cars then half of the home work is already being done Click here to enlarge

    Another thing to add, when using this table in cases where people would use the WGDC base table to eliminate"most" TC by "decreasing values", in order to use the LTO table you will have to "increase" WGDC base cell values to eliminate most TC as well Click here to enlarge

    I am putting all this on the table for everyone including @Josh@Cobb a head start on the issues of overboost with the IS on the IKC0S_IS and ILA0S_IS roms and its definitely because of the LTO table coming with the OTS values of the stock non IS N54's as posted in the original post.

    After I get concrete data together right now is just my theory how it works based on my own logs.

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    You're correct that these tables are made to offset the load for the "overboost" that the 'is' and '1M' cars have from he factory. However, you're looking at it a little wrong. They allow for increased load which will in turn cause higher boost requests, but this should not cause throttle closures unless the WGDC (Base) table is not dialed in. Ultimately, the DME is still simply trying to achieve something close to the boost and load requests, regardless of whether they are being offset or come directly from the load request table. Your car seems to be particularly boost happy and the base table is the real solution IMO. You can of course go about tuning in different ways and everyone has their own preference, but I would tune the base table to work in conjunction with the other tables since it has the most resolution and should provide the most consistent results. I haven't looked much into adding this functionality into the non 'is' roms since you can simply increase the load request to have the same effect and it will always be active.

    I've seen overshoots from every rom, but they are not very common compared to how many tuned cars we have out there. There are WG arm variances from the factory as well as BMW techs that think cranking the WG arm down is the best solution for WG rattle.

    Of course, this is all just my personal opinion on tuning and if there's something that works better, by all means go for it.
    Josh Dankel
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Josh@Cobb Click here to enlarge
    You're correct that these tables are made to offset the load for the "overboost" that the 'is' and '1M' cars have from he factory. However, you're looking at it a little wrong. They allow for increased load which will in turn cause higher boost requests, but this should not cause throttle closures unless the WGDC (Base) table is not dialed in. Ultimately, the DME is still simply trying to achieve something close to the boost and load requests, regardless of whether they are being offset or come directly from the load request table. Your car seems to be particularly boost happy and the base table is the real solution IMO. You can of course go about tuning in different ways and everyone has their own preference, but I would tune the base table to work in conjunction with the other tables since it has the most resolution and should provide the most consistent results. I haven't looked much into adding this functionality into the non 'is' roms since you can simply increase the load request to have the same effect and it will always be active.

    I've seen overshoots from every rom, but they are not very common compared to how many tuned cars we have out there. There are WG arm variances from the factory as well as BMW techs that think cranking the WG arm down is the best solution for WG rattle.

    Of course, this is all just my personal opinion on tuning and if there's something that works better, by all means go for it.
    Could you not use this table for gear-based boost?
    Change is constant

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
    Could you not use this table for gear-based boost?
    You could (in theory), but it will only offset so much. Also, the overboost tables are not meant to be active all the time and you will have to hit certain thresholds before they are. I haven't personally tried this table much, so its possible it could be more beneficial than I realize. I can definitely look into making them active for other roms, but it may not be a simple task.
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Josh@Cobb Click here to enlarge
    You could (in theory), but it will only offset so much. Also, the overboost tables are not meant to be active all the time and you will have to hit certain thresholds before they are. I haven't personally tried this table much, so its possible it could be more beneficial than I realize. I can definitely look into making them active for other roms, but it may not be a simple task.
    That's why you get paid the big bucks! Click here to enlarge
    Change is constant

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
    Could you not use this table for gear-based boost?
    Yes you can, I have my 1 and 2 gears setup to run less load for traction purpose and so I am not going to replace a third DS again, well anytime soon

    You can use the main Load Target table as the base load which will have lower boost, then use the LTO table to achieve the difference of greater load but per gear

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Josh@Cobb Click here to enlarge
    You could (in theory), but it will only offset so much. Also, the overboost tables are not meant to be active all the time and you will have to hit certain thresholds before they are. I haven't personally tried this table much, so its possible it could be more beneficial than I realize. I can definitely look into making them active for other roms, but it may not be a simple task.
    Per my logs, it is always active and referenced by the DME. If your using the BMW stock values then yes it will bring you back closer to the base load post 5k RPMs

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    Per my logs, it is always active and referenced by the DME. If your using the BMW stock values then yes it will bring you back closer to the base load post 5k RPMs
    There is still a timer that's active. Granted, it may be long enough that the table is effectively always active, but the logic does require you to be in "overboost mode" before it will use the table and will only continue to use while there is time left in the timer. I took a closer look at the logic on the non 'is' models this morning and it will be tricky to force a non-is car into these functions. I'll do more research.
    @BuraQ, seems like you may have found a good option for the cars that have this option from the factory. Nice work dude.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Not in the engine.
    Exactly right!

    The 1M is really a slightly decontented 135i with M3 drive drive train, brakes, wheels and tires and suspension. Throw in some flared fenders and you pretty much have it. Oh, but BMW didn't know how to fit a DCT like they did to the identical engines in the 335is and the Z4 S Drive 35is.

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