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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blaster3500 Click here to enlarge
    Wow this tread went south in a hurry. I never planned/claimed I could build a set of stage 2's. The main purpose of this tread was to see if I should go with a stock sized billet comp wheel or was it worth the cost to machining the comp cover and use a larger wheel if the turbine cant flow it. I will most likely go with the stock sized billet wheel unless I can find a set of comp covers. As far as the wastegates go TD seems to have no problem milling/drilling the wg arm off and installing a sleeve? If it get it apart and it will not work I will address then then. Worst case I will leave them as they are working fine. My whole purpose of this is to fix my leaking turbo seals. While I am it a figure I may as well do a small upgrade. I am not really even looking for more power. Is this the best option for turbos on this car no? and I never claimed it was. It is merely a rebuild with a little bump in power. Tony I appreciate the concern and if it does not work out it does not work out. I enjoy the hobby and the time working on my car. I see no reason why if I buy a quality rebuild kit, measure housing/ shafts, get it balanced/ shafts checked for straightness that it will not be just as good as any other rebuild turbo.
    Go for it OP. And it's not always as simple as getting them balanced, you have to make sure the rest of the turbo is still good to go, and that can be as simple as the difference between somebody with experience building the turbo and a novice overlooking something. It's only a problem if there is a problem you don't catch. They are delicate creatures, but definitely not rocket science. Well actually it's similar to rocket science but you get the gist. Be sure to post results if you do the batmowheel, although I'm hesitant to project gains of such a setup. Definitely if you clip the wheel I'd replace the compressor, then just hope the sum of the parts is much greater than the individual pieces.

  2. #27
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    Last thing I was trying to do was hate on your thread, just offering some information. My references to the difficulty of building a set of stage 2's were in reference to the guy who was saying anyone with a Bridgeport could build a set. Trying to do things yourself is fun, if it works out, more powe to ya. If you get halfway in and have questions, email me. I can walk you through anything you need to know.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Last thing I was trying to do was hate on your thread, just offering some information. My references to the difficulty of building a set of stage 2's were in reference to the guy who was saying anyone with a Bridgeport could build a set. Trying to do things yourself is fun, if it works out, more powe to ya. If you get halfway in and have questions, email me. I can walk you through anything you need to know.
    Thanks Tony I really appreciate it! Hopefully my itch to tinker won't bite me in the ass. I will keep doing research and hopefully it will pay off. There is a ton of work that goes into the stage 2 style setup props to you for offering it a good price. It is truly nice to see a vendor help out a DIYer.

    V8bait I am going to be using the KTS billet wheel not the batmowheel. It is a updated design of the stock wheel. Will it help? I will have to find out. I am going to do this and the clip to keep things simple.

  4. #29
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    I also wasn't hating and I love to see people do things themselves that most people wouldn't dream of attempting. I was simply pointing out that if you are willing to attempt to rebuild the turbos yourself, you need to accept there is a possibility of failing. You do assume some risk doing this and the only way out might be purchasing a new set of turbos.

    However, I agree with the previous two posters and think this is something that can be done at home, especially considering you are willing to have them professionally balanced. Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.
    Eppur si muove.

  5. #30
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    What will you be doing to strengthen the turbos? I understand you are saying you are rebuilding these mainly to repair the seals and figured you would try something to see if it yields any performance improvement, but what are you going to do to repair the seals? It's great to do a project like this yourself, but it's not like you're re-building a great turbo capable of more abuse after rebuilding, I see you succeeding in the rebuild fine, that's not the issue, but a month or two after they will just start smoking again, and eventually need another rebuild. Do this twice and you could have just purchased Vargas Stage 1's...
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    What will you be doing to strengthen the turbos? I understand you are saying you are rebuilding these mainly to repair the seals and figured you would try something to see if it yields any performance improvement, but what are you going to do to repair the seals? It's great to do a project like this yourself, but it's not like you're re-building a great turbo capable of more abuse after rebuilding, I see you succeeding in the rebuild fine, that's not the issue, but a month or two after they will just start smoking again, and eventually need another rebuild. Do this twice and you could have just purchased Vargas Stage 1's...
    There are no miraculous "smoke stoppers" in anyone's stage 1 turbos. LOL
    What did you think would stop stage 1 turbos from smoking if pushed really hard?

    If he can build them himself he will most likely do it as carefully as possible for himself.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    What will you be doing to strengthen the turbos? I understand you are saying you are rebuilding these mainly to repair the seals and figured you would try something to see if it yields any performance improvement, but what are you going to do to repair the seals? It's great to do a project like this yourself, but it's not like you're re-building a great turbo capable of more abuse after rebuilding, I see you succeeding in the rebuild fine, that's not the issue, but a month or two after they will just start smoking again, and eventually need another rebuild. Do this twice and you could have just purchased Vargas Stage 1's...
    I am replacing the seals? Correct me if I am wrong but unless you purchase upgraded thrust parts from Vargus the stage 1 are a stock CHRA. I am pretty sure all the "stage 1" upgrades have stock seals/bearings. Mine have lasted 100k and they are not dumping oil just seeping. I would like to take care of the issue before it becomes a problem. I have not seen these turbos fail within 2 months?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blaster3500 Click here to enlarge
    I am replacing the seals? Correct me if I am wrong but unless you purchase upgraded thrust parts from Vargus the stage 1 are a stock CHRA. I am pretty sure all the "stage 1" upgrades have stock seals/bearings. Mine have lasted 100k and they are not dumping oil just seeping. I would like to take care of the issue before it becomes a problem. I have not seen these turbos fail within 2 months?
    I have no idea how you're pushing them, just asking what you are planning on doing, your title and all of your questions are performance related, and when everyone suggested purchasing a set of rebuilt turbos then you said you're not looking for power gains, just rebuilding because you wanted them to be stronger, so I'm curious as to what you are doing. I have a set of smoky stockers coming off my car, and not really sure what to do with them. I don't know what all goes into say the Vargas Stage 1's besides knowing they push a little more power, I believe have a clipped turbine, and much stronger all new wastegate parts.

    Not saying the turbos will fail, but depending on how hard you are pushing them, I'd say 2 months until they start smoking again/seeping oil, so if that's all you're doing is to repair that, I'm curious as to how hard you're pushing these. That's great your turbos lasted 100k...stock boost big woop, are you FBO? what boost levels are you running? How many miles were they being ran for at the higher boost levels? Everyone's interested in your project and no one is trying to bash you or tear down your thread, but all you've done so far is ask about performance, gotten overly defensive when you didn't like a other peoples' answers, and still given no info on what you plan on doing to help these turbos last longer after the rebuild. If you're not doing anything to make them stronger, then yes, this sounds like a complete waste of time....
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    I have no idea how you're pushing them, just asking what you are planning on doing, your title and all of your questions are performance related, and when everyone suggested purchasing a set of rebuilt turbos then you said you're not looking for power gains, just rebuilding because you wanted them to be stronger, so I'm curious as to what you are doing. I have a set of smoky stockers coming off my car, and not really sure what to do with them. I don't know what all goes into say the Vargas Stage 1's besides knowing they push a little more power, I believe have a clipped turbine, and much stronger all new wastegate parts.

    Not saying the turbos will fail, but depending on how hard you are pushing them, I'd say 2 months until they start smoking again/seeping oil, so if that's all you're doing is to repair that, I'm curious as to how hard you're pushing these. That's great your turbos lasted 100k...stock boost big woop, are you FBO? what boost levels are you running? How many miles were they being ran for at the higher boost levels? Everyone's interested in your project and no one is trying to bash you or tear down your thread, but all you've done so far is ask about performance, gotten overly defensive when you didn't like a other peoples' answers, and still given no info on what you plan on doing to help these turbos last longer after the rebuild. If you're not doing anything to make them stronger, then yes, this sounds like a complete waste of time....
    OP has documented his plan very well and detailed. He never said he will build the turbos stronger. Where did you get that misinformation from?

    His stockers were good for 100k. Why are you claiming that his turbos would start to smoke in two months? Two months based on what?

    What do you mean by saying he is repairing the seals? No one will repair the seals. Thats a replacement job.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    OP has documented his plan very well and detailed. He never said he will build the turbos stronger. Where did you get that misinformation from?

    His stockers were good for 100k. Why are you claiming that his turbos would start to smoke in two months? Two months based on what?

    What do you mean by saying he is repairing the seals? No one will repair the seals. Thats a replacement job.
    Detailed? Where? If you're "upgrading" turbos and doing a rebuild but you're not doing it with performance in mind...what are you upgrading?

    Did you not read my post or just speed read and skim over? I understand his stockers lasted 100k miles...I CAN read thanks...I said assuming higher boost levels, at say FBO, I would expect the seals to start to go again in as little as a couple months, obviously depends on how you drive, I ASKED what was done to the car during the 100k miles and how many miles car was assumingly FBO, if it's not FBO, then I wouldn't think someone was looking to rebuild turbos to squeeze a possible extra 20whp...

    Repair the seals? Oh, my bad...replace...thanks for pointing out the technicality...
    @654 now where do you fall into this conversation? Oh you don't...ok...I guess I will just not bother trying to find out what this turbo rebuild project is trying to accomplish...besides "replacing" seals.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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  11. #36
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    Sorry I do not mean to get offensive, I asked for an opinion on a compressor wheels and stated I did not want to purchase an upgraded turbo set and all I hear is I need to buy an upgrade. It has been at 15-18 psi for around 10k miles. As for making these turbos stronger there is not many options. RB's which have a TD04 CHRA, Tony offers upgraded thrust parts and upgraded wheels will help with shaft speeds. I am FBO and as far as smoking in 2 months I just don't buy it. My friend has a 135i completely catless and have been at 15psi for 50k and has zero smoke. I am doing it mainly as maintenance but while I am in there I am going to upgrade the compressor wheel for a little gain. So yes there is performance in mind but it is not the reason for pulling the turbos. I am just trying to take care of the issue before it becomes a problem. Think of it as rebuilding a motor that runs well but is a little low on compression and while you are in there you put aftermarket cams in the motor. The main purpose is to refresh the motor, but while you are at it there is a gain for not much work and cost.

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    Can I just ask a few questions to understand stg2 building proccess for example RB?
    1. buying new CHRA TD04L-15T
    2. Machining turbo hot side, machining turbo cold side to fit new bigger chra.
    3. Clipping hot side compressor wheel to 7 degrees.
    4. Balancing.
    5. Rebuilding WG.

    Is it What it is RB turbos?
    Again not that I want to do it, just to understand what is the setup of RBs

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RimasRS Click here to enlarge
    Can I just ask a few questions to understand stg2 building proccess for example RB?
    1. buying new CHRA TD04L-15T
    2. Machining turbo hot side, machining turbo cold side to fit new bigger chra.
    3. Clipping hot side compressor wheel to 7 degrees.
    4. Balancing.
    5. Rebuilding WG.

    Is it What it is RB turbos?
    Again not that I want to do it, just to understand what is the setup of RBs
    Bump to answer his questions

  14. #39
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    This is what I have gathered and I could be wrong so Rob or Tony please correct me. RB use the TD04 center section that has been modified. The back plate has to be machined to fit the stock compressor cover, the hot side has to be machined and a flange welded to accept the stock manifold. Also the center section has been machined and modified to accept the stock oil and coolant lines. Also the exhaust and comp side housings have to be machined for the larger wheels. As for VTT they use the stock center section but have been modified to accept tdo4 parts. The back plate has to be machined for the larger wheel as are the compressor and turbine housings. Both have full stainless waste gate flapper arms installed to help eliminate the rattle that is so common. Doing these one off would be LOTS of work and have a lots of potential for things to go wrong. That is why you see mostly a stage 1 style upgrade. The back plate and comp cover are machined to accept a larger comp wheel and the stock turbine is clipped. On a side note I have decided to install stock sized billet wheels and have the turbines clipped. The wheels should be arriving any day now. Once I get those I having the stock turbines clipped and the assembly balanced. I also picked up a stock manifold to play with to figure out what I am going to do with the wastagates. It will not be huge upgraded but I might pick up a few WHP and around 500 invested without install parts.

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    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blaster3500 Click here to enlarge
    This is what I have gathered and I could be wrong so Rob or Tony please correct me. RB use the TD04 center section that has been modified. The back plate has to be machined to fit the stock compressor cover, the hot side has to be machined and a flange welded to accept the stock manifold. Also the center section has been machined and modified to accept the stock oil and coolant lines. Also the exhaust and comp side housings have to be machined for the larger wheels. As for VTT they use the stock center section but have been modified to accept tdo4 parts. The back plate has to be machined for the larger wheel as are the compressor and turbine housings. Both have full stainless waste gate flapper arms installed to help eliminate the rattle that is so common. Doing these one off would be LOTS of work and have a lots of potential for things to go wrong. That is why you see mostly a stage 1 style upgrade. The back plate and comp cover are machined to accept a larger comp wheel and the stock turbine is clipped. On a side note I have decided to install stock sized billet wheels and have the turbines clipped. The wheels should be arriving any day now. Once I get those I having the stock turbines clipped and the assembly balanced. I also picked up a stock manifold to play with to figure out what I am going to do with the wastagates. It will not be huge upgraded but I might pick up a few WHP and around 500 invested without install parts.
    Have you seen how TD04L 15T CHRA looks I think it is the same center like our TD03L so no modifications needed to connect stock cooling lines, though really would be interesting to have a close look and compare both. If they are the same just different size compressor wheels that should mean you just need to machine cold and hot side to fit bigger compressor wheels.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RimasRS Click here to enlarge
    Have you seen how TD04L 15T CHRA looks I think it is the same center like our TD03L so no modifications needed to connect stock cooling lines, though really would be interesting to have a close look and compare both. If they are the same just different size compressor wheels that should mean you just need to machine cold and hot side to fit bigger compressor wheels.
    This is incorrect. No standard MHI housing is has the proper water or oil feed connectors. They are proprietary to the BMW MHI's

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    I figured I would update the thread. I pulled my turbos last weekend. Wastegate bushings are toast and they really needed a rebuild. The front turbo had tons of axial play. I just got the billet wheels in today and am going to send off my chras to have the wheels clipped and rebuilt. Here is a comparison pic of the wheels. Stock weigh 24g and the billets are 20. As for the wastegates I am going to do what TD did and press in a SS bushing.

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blaster3500 Click here to enlarge
    I figured I would update the thread. I pulled my turbos last weekend. Wastegate bushings are toast and they really needed a rebuild. The front turbo had tons of axial play. I just got the billet wheels in today and am going to send off my chras to have the wheels clipped and rebuilt. Here is a comparison pic of the wheels. Stock weigh 24g and the billets are 20. As for the wastegates I am going to do what TD did and press in a SS bushing.

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...52ad8bb7-1.jpg
    Just a heads up on your wastegates, the bushing is about 1/4 the problem with those gates, that wears, at the same time the shaft wears, also the arm that connects to the shaft, those also wear, and the rod ends on the actuators wear. On the earlier models the wear can be very bad. Replacing just the bushing is going to do very little to fix your waste gate issues. We have recently started replacing waste gate parts for customers with turbos still in good working order just waste gate rattle. Its a service we are charging $299 for. This includes all the parts for both turbine housings, new billet rod ends for the actuators, and all machine work and welding to install them. You can either send you us your turbine housings, we can do the repair and send them back. Takes about 1 day, or we can send you a pair already done and you can send yours in after. The later method requires a $250 core charge.

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    Yeah I know the bushing is not a great fix but much better than what I have. Any chance you sell just the parts?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blaster3500 Click here to enlarge
    Yeah I know the bushing is not a great fix but much better than what I have. Any chance you sell just the parts?
    We only do the repairs in house.

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    Ok I will keep it in mind I appreciate it. I have a spare scrap housing I am going to play with tonight and see what I can come up with. Thanks again for the help

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blaster3500 Click here to enlarge
    Ok I will keep it in mind I appreciate it. I have a spare scrap housing I am going to play with tonight and see what I can come up with. Thanks again for the help
    what did you come up with
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
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    The factory bushings are pinned so in order to remove them and install a new bushing properly is a pain. Pretty sure VTT bores the stock bushing and installs a new flapper for this reason but I could be wrong. Just looking at pics so it is pretty hard to tell. I ended up buying a set of used turbos from terry with 30k on them for 300 and sold my stockers for 200 locally so ended up spending 100 and have the newer style manifold and pretty tight wastegates. As for an update on the turbos they are now on the car so far so good. I am just running around on cobb stage 1 drive just to take it easy for a while. I have about half the price of 2 new turbos from bmw in mine. I had the CHRA's balanced, wheels clipped 6 degrees and assembled. I will update with VD's once I get it retuned by PTF. I plan on keeping the boost a little lower on my new tune (15psi). Here are some pics of them

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

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    Nice!!! Throw them on and tune!
    Burger Motorsports
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