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    How much HP does meth really add to our N54's????

    It is very obvious by dyno charts and owner reviews that our cars love meth! But, how much extra HP does the meth deliver?

    I was told that the meth adds around 30hp, but from some dyno results it seems as if we are getting a lot more HP than only 30 HP from the meth.

    Here is what I figured. JB3 tune adds 80 hp and a DCI about 15 hp so that comes up to around 395 hp. So if the meth kit adds 30 hp we should be at 425hp, but I have seen dyno results with people running maps 8 or higher with only a tune, DCI, and meth pushing 450+ hp at the crank.

    Is it fair to say that if you are running the ideal map from your JB3 program along with 93 octane w/meth that you are adding 50+ hp as opposed to 30hp????

    I am hoping that I can get 450hp from my 335i without the use of a FMIC, or downpipes..... with a JB3 tune, DCI, and meth as my ONLY mods. What do you guys think?

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    450 crank is do able i think, 18ohm board and map 8 on meth you should be around 400 whp... why no dp's?

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    the meth itself doesnt add much power, it lets you run more boost and timing which is where most of the power is made.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    the meth itself doesnt add much power, it lets you run more boost and timing which is where most of the power is made.
    I guess the better question to ask then is how much boost and timing can you add with meth and what is the power difference without it?
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I guess the better question to ask then is how much boost and timing can you add with meth and what is the power difference without it?
    It is going to be very hard to try and predict this value. Every car and situation is different.

    From an IAT only standpoint I have performed many calculations and designed a peice of software to predict IATs during meth injection. Here is a link to my calculator.

    http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...ion+calculator

    This is one parameter for understanding 'how much boost + timing can I run?"

    Another factor is octane and combustion chamber design, also piston top and swirl design, cam overlap, dynamic compression ratio and a ton of other variables other than your typical boost + timing effect your detonation level. Trying to predict with any certainty the amount of methanol solely due to octane benefits needed for X amount of degrees advance or psi boost to sustain normal combustion without detonation is a very complicated task. So, in reality you may even need a mass spectrometer to measure exhaust gas content of methanol burn constituents to sort of have an idea of the A/F of the meth injection, this would be a closed loop control system sort of like what the O2 sensors are for but for meth, not gasoline; that is taking it too far. That method may not even work because methanol combustion constituents are almost identical to gasoline combustion constituents, namely CO2, H2O, NOx's and etc...

    Overall, it is not easy to predict.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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    I think the other question we should ask is, what are the risks for users running meth with daily drivers?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    It is going to be very hard to try and predict this value. Every car and situation is different.
    Ballpark figure, I think we have enough info to make an educated guess.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DarkPhantom Click here to enlarge
    I think the other question we should ask is, what are the risks for users running meth with daily drivers?
    This thread is covering some of those aspects: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...3-S65-V8-Motor

    Later on in the thread, but some good info.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    this.
    http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9944

    I can run 18.5psi with close to maximum ignition timing on a large meth nozzle and 100% meth. 424whp translates to 487.6 crank HP. The boost and ignition alone are worth 50-60whp over a typical 14psi tune+DCI car. Not to mention cooling benefits that will help out the heatsoaking issue.

    I understand I have downpipes and an intercooler, but with tune/dci/meth you'll be somewhat close to your target 450 crank HP.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DarkPhantom Click here to enlarge
    I think the other question we should ask is, what are the risks for users running meth with daily drivers?
    This is another good thread as well: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...re-due-to-meth
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    i run 100% meth on a daily driver, stock dps and stock IC.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    i run 100% meth on a daily driver, stock dps and stock IC.
    100% meth?
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Yep 100% all the time.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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    I run meth on 2 cars for 2 different reasons. On the M3, it is 100% meth and obviously it is as a power additive. I believe Chris says it bumps octane up to 113. On the e55, I run 50/50 blend to help with cooling. At this point we have not tuned for the meth. It is strictly to help keep iats down so that timing isn't pulled on WOT runs.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Yep 100% all the time.
    Why not a mix to be on the safe side seeing how it is a highly combustible substance in pure form?
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    I know that meth itself does not produce horsepower. I know that it is the added boost that the meth allows that produces the extra hp. But, I was hoping that you guys would assume that I know that. Also, I am not asking if I will make 439hp .... or asking for the exact HP level. I am just curious to know what your experiences were and the BALLPARK figure that I might be able to get.

    I am not running downpipes because my car is a certified pre-owned and I would like to keep my warranty for 70,000 more miles. Guess I would remove the DP prior to each service, but that would be a nightmare. Removing my JB3 tune, DCI, and meth would not be too bad.

    What harm would it do running meth on a daily driver? At the most I would be doing a WOT maybe twice a week for a few seconds just to thrill myself. This will not be used for draging on a daily basis!!! But, I would like to know what potential problems I could have if I used this on my daily driver which is exactly what my 335i is. I was planning on using a 75/25 mix.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why not a mix to be on the safe side seeing how it is a highly combustible substance in pure form?
    Excellent point, however bear in mind to achieve the much higher boost levels with proper timing you will need a larger meth nozzle. Once you add a larger meth nozzle into the equation, too much water will quench the motor. It's a risk we take I suppose running 100% meth.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by crash32 Click here to enlarge
    I know that meth itself does not produce horsepower. I know that it is the added boost that the meth allows that produces the extra hp. But, I was hoping that you guys would assume that I know that. Also, I am not asking if I will make 439hp .... or asking for the exact HP level. I am just curious to know what your experiences were and the BALLPARK figure that I might be able to get.

    I am not running downpipes because my car is a certified pre-owned and I would like to keep my warranty for 70,000 more miles. Guess I would remove the DP prior to each service, but that would be a nightmare. Removing my JB3 tune, DCI, and meth would not be too bad.

    What harm would it do running meth on a daily driver? At the most I would be doing a WOT maybe twice a week for a few seconds just to thrill myself. This will not be used for draging on a daily basis!!! But, I would like to know what potential problems I could have if I used this on my daily driver which is exactly what my 335i is. I was planning on using a 75/25 mix.
    The main "danger" if you call it that would be the fact large amounts of meth will degrade the protective properties of your motor oil. As long as you're not waiting for the 15k "BMW recommended" intervals and at the very least do in-between oil changes, I do not see any other downside to running meth as long as you have failsafes in place. Otherwise you will never know if the meth is flowing as it should.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Excellent point, however bear in mind to achieve the much higher boost levels with proper timing you will need a larger meth nozzle. Once you add a larger meth nozzle into the equation, too much water will quench the motor. It's a risk we take I suppose running 100% meth.
    Nice post, but wouldn't a larger nozzle with even a 70/30 mix satisfy all boost demands that the factory turbo can handle anyway while being safer?
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Nice post, but wouldn't a larger nozzle with even a 70/30 mix satisfy all boost demands that the factory turbo can handle anyway while being safer?
    If a smaller meth nozzle and a ratio of say 70/30 can satisfy 18psi at max timing I would be all for it. The challenge is that is not the case. The tuners clearly don't want to advocate running large meth nozzles and cranking the boost higher than 17 psi but numerous logs of ignition timing at the higher boost levels indicate that the larger meth nozzle with a high concentration of meth can indeed support higher boost levels. I personally had max timing at 18.5 psi on a dyno with far less airflow than rowing through the gears on a highway run. That says a lot.
    Last edited by themyst; 09-30-2010 at 11:08 AM.

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    Okay I've got a major newbie question, but I need to know!

    The meth ONLY comes on when you reach a certain boost level that the 93 octane (or whatever) cannot handle..... correct? For example when I am casually merging onto a highway and my turbo spools a little bit, the meth will not come on since I am not WOT or near it.... correct? Just wanted to make sure.

    As far as the motor quench problem goes, I am a bit confused. I did not think that the amount of water would affect the motor as long as it was properly mixed with meth/alcohol or whatever. Maybe one of you guys can explain to me exactly what quenching the motor means in simple terms.

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    On a PROcede sure. It goes from your pump gas map to your meth map once the flow target is hit if you have a CMGS or IFS-30. On a JB3 I believe if you have a CMGS you pick a map, and if you flow below a certain threshold the failsafe sends a trigger to the JB3 and it drops you to Map 3.

    Quenching means you are getting too much water in the combustion chamber causing the car to stutter, and run poorly. At lower meth/water ratios this can be an issue on a large nozzle. Point of my statement was, if you are using a large jet, up the meth ratio. If you are using a small jet, it's not an issue assuming a mix as low as 50/50.

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    With a large nozzle should a 70/30 mix still pose a threat of quenching?

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    70/30 you're probably better off on a M7 nozzle IMHO. Do you really want to run that much water if say you run lower boost levels? Just run 90/10 or 100% if you want to feel safe on a M10 nozzle.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    On a PROcede sure. It goes from your pump gas map to your meth map once the flow target is hit if you have a CMGS or IFS-30. On a JB3 I believe if you have a CMGS you pick a map, and if you flow below a certain threshold the failsafe sends a trigger to the JB3 and it drops you to Map 3.

    Quenching means you are getting too much water in the combustion chamber causing the car to stutter, and run poorly. At lower meth/water ratios this can be an issue on a large nozzle. Point of my statement was, if you are using a large jet, up the meth ratio. If you are using a small jet, it's not an issue assuming a mix as low as 50/50.
    themyst, can you clarify the conditions (boost level, meth/water mix, meth injection pressure/rate, etc.) under which you've experienced stuttering/poor running using meth/water? Sounds extremely dangerous!

    You guys should also check out this thread from post #24 on... http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...pgrade-results
    2009 335i: PROcede V4 with BMS DCI (still not sure how they get along!)

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