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    Powerchip S65 M3 Tune Issues

    A bit of a debate has been raging on the forum which led to our user DonDon requesting his Powerchip dyno graphs be posted. These graphs were sent to us a while ago but we did not post them as we wanted to see how the situation was resolved before judging anyone. However, the owner of this car, DonDon, requested they now be put up due to his displeasure with Powerchip. As you can see in the graphs, the car loses power from idle to 7000 rpm. It only gains power beyond 7k and it does so due to being heavily leaned out. This tune would give the impression of greater top end gains even though the stock file is actually a better tune. Take a look at the graphs and come to your own conclusion as they are compared with stock. We also are not sure if the situation has been properly resolved yet.

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    Let me guess its Jeremy's fault? LOL
    Kees on M5 Board is my bitch....

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
    Let me guess its Jeremy's fault? LOL
    This was not tuned by Jeremy.
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    Oh I know just being sarcastic cause that seems to be the universal answer to all of Powerchips problems...
    Kees on M5 Board is my bitch....

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
    Oh I know just being sarcastic cause that seems to be the universal answer to all of Powerchips problems...
    I understood, just wanted to make it clear to those who might not know what has transpired.
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    This is the first time I have seen these graphs, and it seems quite uncharacteristic of the results we normally see.

    It doesn't make sense to lose power before 7000, as we could use stock fueling and timing up to that point and then incorporate the changes in the areas where it picks up power.

    Dondon's base file was an AA tune. Sometimes this causes issues as the stock file from BMW isn't being used as the base.

    Thanks,
    Mike

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@Powerchip Click here to enlarge
    Dondon's base file was an AA tune. Sometimes this causes issues as the stock file from BMW isn't being used as the base.
    This is an important piece of information.
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    Also, it's a good thing that the top end was leaned out.. If you look at the stock charts, at one point it's running a 10.5 AFR, which is EXTREMELY rich for a naturally aspirated car. Even my turbo seven series running stock compression and twelve pounds of boost doesn't see 10's. More like low 11's.

    The M3 should be around 12 to 12.5 ideally.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@Powerchip Click here to enlarge
    Also, it's a good thing that the top end was leaned out.. If you look at the stock charts, at one point it's running a 10.5 AFR
    From what Don said, the dyno operator was worried the car leaned out aggressively at the top.

    Clearly the air fuel needs to be cleaned up. Is it too lean? Well, the motor is probably being forced to pull some timing up top to compensate.
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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I am sorry but this is BMW's stock tune. The only thing different is the bolt on mods done the car. The software was never touched. Please do not drag another companies tune into this matter.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DoNDoN Click here to enlarge
    I am sorry but this is BMW's stock tune. The only thing different is the bolt on mods done the car. The software was never touched. Please do not drag another companies tune into this matter.
    So where the hell is the AA base map stuff coming from?
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    i think mike likes to make stuff up as you can clearly see in the other thread....matt even said my car was running rich... i probably got the same tune i can get my graph to compare it to.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by akh23456 Click here to enlarge
    i think mike likes to make stuff up as you can clearly see in the other thread....matt even said my car was running rich... i probably got the same tune i can get my graph to compare it to.
    Why not, if both look similar something is up with the tune itself.
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    i gotta call up the dyno place to get my graphs resent seemed to miss place the after pc tune graphs

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DoNDoN Click here to enlarge
    I am sorry but this is BMW's stock tune. The only thing different is the bolt on mods done the car. The software was never touched. Please do not drag another companies tune into this matter.
    Wow Powerchip lying again what else is new. Guess some companies never change... SAD
    "I hate you, you, and especially you and hope that all the bad things in life happen to you and only you!"

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Monster135 Click here to enlarge
    Wow Powerchip lying again what else is new. Guess some companies never change... SAD
    If that is in fact true then that is very, very wrong.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    If that is in fact true then that is very, very wrong.
    Sticky Powerchip has lost any credibility they had left. Their attacks on Gintani and OE Tuning, blaming Jeremy for everything under the sun and now trying to shift the blame to Active? Come on. At some point the BS needs to stop. They need to focus on making a better product so they can be competitive not shifting blame to others.
    "I hate you, you, and especially you and hope that all the bad things in life happen to you and only you!"

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Monster135 Click here to enlarge
    Sticky Powerchip has lost any credibility they had left. Their attacks on Gintani and OE Tuning, blaming Jeremy for everything under the sun and now trying to shift the blame to Active? Come on. At some point the BS needs to stop. They need focus on making a better product so they can be competitive, not shifting blame to others.
    I agree with you, hence why they were stripped of vendor status here.

    They need to retool and focus on their own product instead of whining about Jeremy who is doing quite well. I think that is the issue, he doesn't need them.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by akh23456 Click here to enlarge
    i think mike likes to make stuff up as you can clearly see in the other thread....matt even said my car was running rich... i probably got the same tune i can get my graph to compare it to.
    ya know Akash.. I just remembered, didnt you make much LESS power after your tune on the dyno we were both using?

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    Joseph, I sent my reply to administrator (at) bimmerboost.com. Please post it as it would not let me. My post will show how DonDon is being 100% untruthful and is just trying to slander Powerchips reputation.

    edit, nvm, it let me post now. But please put the link up to DonDon's post on M3post that I sent you via email. Name of the thread is "Powerchip Group Buy Interest!!!!!" and his post is #68.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DoNDoN Click here to enlarge
    I am sorry but this is BMW's stock tune. The only thing different is the bolt on mods done the car. The software was never touched. Please do not drag another companies tune into this matter.
    To put these unequivocally false claims to rest:

    Here is an email from Ben Chou, Dondon's friend that I arranged the group buy with which shows that he has AA software:

    Sat 1/23/2010 10:46 AM

    Mods on DonDon Car:

    Fabspeed HFC and Xpipe, RPI Scoops, MS Filter, AA Pulley, AA Software, DCT, Eisenmann Race. Raise threshold for CEL for Cat efficiency. Please do not raise redline or remove top speed governor.

    Mods on SpacecakeM Car:

    Turner Test Pipe (front cat delete) secondary cats still there, AA Software, AA Pulley, RPI scoops, Meisterschaft GT2 exhaust. Please do not raise redline or remove top speed governor.

    Ben Chou
    Vice President
    CBase Solutions Inc.

    I'm seriously staring to really hate this forum considering people just blatantly lie, and then the whole bandwagon jumps on and supports liars. You can CLEARLY see that AA software is in the description of the mods sent to me for DonDon's car.


    Furthermore, here is a post from Dondon HIMSELF stating that he had AA software:

    "First off let me tell you what mods I have. I am running the Fabspeed HFC and X pipe, Eisenmann Race exhaust, MS Filter, an AA pulley and AA software. I was very skeptical about doing the Powerchip since having the AA software did nothing for me. After reading many reviews I decided to take the plunge and do software tuning one more time. I am glad I did.

    For all of those people who think the M3 lacks in low end torque you need to look at getting this tune with the Fabspeed things. The car is a lot more smoother and a lot more powerful. The low end is definitely better and the mid to high rpms go by so fast its like a totally different car. Those who know me have known I have been complaining about changing my car since I have been bored with it. After driving it today I think I have changed my mind.

    One of my friends did a baseline dyno on Friday and he is getting a dyno done Monday so I will update you guys on the numbers.

    I would like to thank Ben335 for being a wonderful host. I would also like to thank Mike at Powerchip for being easy to deal with and very open to any questions any of us had.

    If you're on the fence about doing this I hope I have helped you make your decision a little easier. I am glad I did it and would not hesitate to do it again."


    You can see from his own admission that he had AA software.

    I will also include parts of an email sent to me by Powerchips Senior calibration engineer, Bill Ingram on 1/26/2010 at 5:36PM:

    "I believe that spacecakeM & dondon, each had similar AA software, which version I dont know, they dont put it in the file." and he spoke about "difficulties of returning someone else's tune back to stock ".

    So DonDon, are you now claiming that you never had AA software???

    I have nothing to gain by lying and everything to lose. So you guys should really check the facts first before you start pointing fingers. I hope this thread becomes a textbook illustration of how people are untruthful and then are supported in lieu of their false statements.

    (edit, I've attached a screenshot of DonDon's post incase he tries to edit it)
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Mike Benvo; 10-02-2010 at 04:36 PM.

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    Mike clearly just proved Don's car had AA software at one point, it did, no debate here.

    My only question would be if the car was running the AA software at the time of the Powerchip tune. If so, the base map being AA would complicate the issue and it would not be as clear cut as it was made to seem.

    Waiting to see what Don has to say as it would seem the stock software was not in the car when Powerchip attempted to tune making this a special case and not representative of Powerchip tunes as a whole on stock S65 cars.
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    well mike, its seems you are rebutting the claims with information. And I thank you for it. I can admit i am not infallible. I Still believe there much improvement needed in certain area's

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    This is beyond hillarious. When did I say I did not have the AA tune? How does Mike even know the dyno I had is not my stock tune? Is he the one who did the dyno for me? Give me a break. I am tried of this guy making up stuff. He is the one who is always saying "stop putting words in my mouth" when he is doing it right here. Please give this up Mike. Powerchip has offered to give me a fix to my messed up software through a PM on Bimmerpost. At this point Powerchip can keep my money as I am done being a guinea pig for them. I would rather run stock software which I am doing now then support people like Mike at Powerchip. I guarantee I wouldn't edit any of my posts unlike what you have already done.

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    Looking at the dyno graphs I don't see what's so dangerous about the AFRs. The leanest it gets up top appears to be around 12.5:1. On a naturally aspirated car that hardly seems dangerous. Was the car pinging or pulling timing? The curve does kind of flatten out on top. That said the fact it makes less power below 7,000 RPM is interesting. What that says to me is that the car was in need of more tuning.

    Also, what was the location of the wideband O2 sensor used for this testing? If was a sensor placed at the muffler that often yields numbers that are much leaner than if the sensor were placed closer to the engine.
    Last edited by fstop7; 10-03-2010 at 05:01 AM.

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