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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    That is almost precisely what the stack does. Does a little bias but if your trims check out then the JB4 serves as a de facto boost controller.
    The PROcede can be truly passive, but since I already have Aquamist and Terry is the man, I'd probably just get a G5 board.
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  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    The PROcede can be truly passive, but since I already have Aquamist and Terry is the man, I'd probably just get a G5 board.
    Plenty of users run the flash/jb4 combo and do extremely well. It's worth it.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    If there was a practical way to have a piggyback control boost while having the DME handle everything else + full cylinder correction data logging, Id stack in a heartbeat. Dialing in boost curves flash only is a pain, but its more or less a deal breaker to only see cyl 1 when logging for me.
    +1 on both points. Cylinder 1 tells you nothing. I love the JB and its control. The logging is the only flaw for me.

    I would buy a new one today if it had this feature (Terry, hold me to this one!).
    Change is constant

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    You know orders of magnitude more than I do about this platform, but i'm not willing to concede that going blind on cyl 2-6 is irrelevant, or close to.

    I get your broader point though. You guys have dialed in 1,000s of cars, i'm not suggesting anything is going to explode Click here to enlarge

    Stacking is an increasingly appealing option.

    Edit: by the way the ST E82 is incredibleeeee
    My advice would be if you are really worried just set the car up in such a way that knock is not possible. Like E70, 18psi, 11 degrees advance at peak HP. It will still be faster than it is now. Click here to enlarge Short shifting on the flatline fix map will result in 6-9 degrees advance which will be 25-50rw more than you have now depending on how bad your particular issue is. Cylinder 1 is great for looking out for overly aggressive tuning. There may be some corrections occurring in other cylinders but if you get the tuning out of whack eventually you get them in cylinder 1 too.

    Honestly as part of a larger overall conversation on the flatline issue I've been wondering why we rarely if ever see any 2-3-4 logs posted from pro cobb tuned cars? Maybe it's not an issue at all for them? Or maybe it is a huge issue and they just don't want to discuss it? That has always confused me.
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  5. #30
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    Not really sure why the older DME idea has been raised. I have the MSD80 and with flash only, I was seeing total dropout of timing post 4-5 shift. I don't think taking a step backwards to an MSD80 is going to help anyone.

    For the record, I haven't observed the issue with JB4 stacked.

  6. #31
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    I have never had this issue seriously with 6MT. It shows up a little bit every once in a while but never anything significant. Maybe if the 6AT guys ran the manual shift software routine it would be better.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    My advice would be if you are really worried just set the car up in such a way that knock is not possible. Like E70, 18psi, 11 degrees advance at peak HP. It will still be faster than it is now. Click here to enlarge Short shifting on the flatline fix map will result in 6-9 degrees advance which will be 25-50rw more than you have now depending on how bad your particular issue is. Cylinder 1 is great for looking out for overly aggressive tuning. There may be some corrections occurring in other cylinders but if you get the tuning out of whack eventually you get them in cylinder 1 too.

    Honestly as part of a larger overall conversation on the flatline issue I've been wondering why we rarely if ever see any 2-3-4 logs posted from pro cobb tuned cars? Maybe it's not an issue at all for them? Or maybe it is a huge issue and they just don't want to discuss it? That has always confused me.
    That’s a fair point. I’ve seen plenty of 6MT 3-4 pulls from protuned cars, but you don’t see much 6AT information. My car puts down beautiful 3rd gear logs- boost curve is nice, AFRs settle immediately, 13.5 degrees up top…but then you shift and things completely fall apart.

    Ultimately I’d like to target something like 14 degrees at 19PSI on hybrids+meth+E60. Aggressive but with the octane headroom I don’t think that’s a kill mode map or anything like that. Regardless I want to see all 6 cylinders when tuning under those circumstances.
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  8. #33
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    So does removing the Alpina flash help alleviate this issue? Does the Alpina flash pull more timing out than the stock AT programming?

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    If you're running stock turbos cyl 2-6 is more or less irrelevant. If running RB turbos it's good data to have but the curves we run are well proven over the years so IMHO not a deal breaker. For large single turbos, I really want to get 2-6 working...
    x 9,245,764,285,345,234 - how many motors pop on stock turbos on aggressive tunes that wouldnt have if u were logging all 6.. but yea obv all 6 is better, my wife would also like a 4 carrot rock too but hers is more than good enough ...

    obv with bigger turbos more req octane this becomes a very valid concern but still not a deal breaker

    so much he said this so this is the truth , @radar1 the "fix" is far superior to not having the "fix" its noticable on paper and in the car, and its noticeable on the road... two cobb e50 cars just posted traps of 115ish , i wonder why...
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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    x 9,245,764,285,345,234 - how many motors pop on stock turbos on aggressive tunes that wouldnt have if u were logging all 6.. but yea obv all 6 is better, my wife would also like a 4 carrot rock too but hers is more than good enough ...

    obv with bigger turbos more req octane this becomes a very valid concern but still not a deal breaker

    so much he said this so this is the truth , @radar1 the "fix" is far superior to not having the "fix" its noticable on paper and in the car, and its noticeable on the road... two cobb e50 cars just posted traps of 115ish , i wonder why...
    One was a manual, you're argument is invalid Click here to enlarge
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    My 2-3-4 pulls looked like poopoo flash only in terms of timing. They looked great for 1 gear though. I'd really like cobb to come up with something. In the mean time I enjoy the stack very much.
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    no protune can fix the timing issue on 6AT IJE0S. stop fighting it, enjoy it

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    9 out of 9 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    @135pats In my experience when I get the timing flatline it corresponds with my torque limit being active. If I log this channel and the value is 4 timing goes way down (with no corrections logged). If you log this channel and its active (showing any value higher than 0) this may be for you.

    With no luck messing around with attempting to raise the torque limit with the various limit tables I started playing with "Load to Torque Limit". The label of this table is deceiving. I don't believe its a limit but rather a lookup table that tells the DME how much torque is being pushed at a given load and RPM. First I raised the values in this table and got horrible low boost and negative timing further justifying that its not a limit. In this case the car thought it was running way more torque than it actually was and hated it. Then I reduced the whole table and low and behold the timing drops and torque limit being active went away!

    You have to be careful because when I lowered the whole table I got lose sloppy shifting cause the tranny thought less torque was being pushed. So I think the best approach is to lower it by the bare minimum amount needed to stay under the torque limit, in the least amount of cells possible. I ended up just needing to lower it in a few of lower right hand corner cells (highest loads / mid to upper RPMs in this table). I'm still experimenting and am going to keep raising the values it back up closer to OTS until I find the bare minimum that I need to take out.

    Obviously just raising the limit directly would be the more elegant solution as I really don't like "tricking" the DME at the possible expense of the tranny but for now its a bandaid solution, at least for me. If you try it I'd be very curious if it works for you too. I used to get negative 5 timing at WOT in 5th gear and now it obeys the main timing table!

    See screenshot below for my current settings. Let me know if you try it.
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  14. #39
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    Very interesting. Wish I could rep you for that, i'll look into it further.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Very interesting. Wish I could rep you for that, i'll look into it further.
    Its all good. I'm more than happy to help. These timing issues have been driving me absolutely nuts for a year. I can't stand them. Hope this helps you and anyone else who gives it a shot.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mfish Click here to enlarge
    Its all good. I'm more than happy to help. These timing issues have been driving me absolutely nuts for a year. I can't stand them. Hope this helps you and anyone else who gives it a shot.
    It would be possible to correctly map that table on a dyno.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    It would be possible to correctly map that table on a dyno.
    True but ultimately my goal is to keep the torque certification right under the level that sets off the dme's torque limiter.
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    Sorry double post
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mfish Click here to enlarge

    With no luck messing around with attempting to raise the torque limit with the various limit tables I started playing with "Load to Torque Limit". The label of this table is deceiving. I don't believe its a limit but rather a lookup table that tells the DME how much torque is being pushed at a given load and RPM. First I raised the values in this table and got horrible low boost and negative timing further justifying that its not a limit. In this case the car thought it was running way more torque than it actually was and hated it. Then I reduced the whole table and low and behold the timing drops and torque limit being active went away!
    That's very interesting!

    I hope others are able to replicate these results.

    In the OFT/Pro-tuner setup there are three separate Torque/Load tables. Does Cobb have the same number of tables or just the one table?

  20. #45
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    Has anyone seen any negative reactions from adjusting this table?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Has anyone seen any negative reactions from adjusting this table?
    Saw some logs of a local and it seems to be working for him @bimmer305

    However the TCU may still tax the timing somewhat but not to the point of negative timing.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Has anyone seen any negative reactions from adjusting this table?
    I just tried this table adjustment tonight while running on a regular Procede piggy.

    My Timing was dropping down to 3-4 degrees on heavy WOT load as soon as I hit max boost.

    I modified my Original OEM ROM Load to Torque tables for lower load values in the rows where stock boost should be (120ish to 135 as I think stock boost values are being reported back to the DME by the piggy).

    So far looks like my timing drop is gone and timing values are holding......even shifting from 3rd into 4th.

    But I only managed to get a few runs.

    Nothing negative to report at all.....car felt great and did not behave abnormally in spite of the load changes.

    I think mfish may be on to something here. We need more members to try this out.

  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DCAFS Click here to enlarge
    I just tried this table adjustment tonight while running on a regular Procede piggy.

    My Timing was dropping down to 3-4 degrees on heavy WOT load as soon as I hit max boost.

    I modified my Original OEM ROM Load to Torque tables for lower load values in the rows where stock boost should be (120ish to 135 as I think this is the load being reported back to the DME by the piggy).

    So far looks like my timing drop is gone and timing values are holding......even shifting from 3rd into 4th.

    But I only managed to get a few runs
    Thats good news, im just curious if any ancillary parameters maybe affected. Too much change could possibly lead to some torque monitors being hit maybe? Not sure at this point.
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    Could be.......I didn't change them drastically. Basically dropped them down by about 50 in the selected rows where I think boost is being reported back to the DME by the piggy during the timing event.

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    Will RB/VTT turbos fix the flatline issue since you can hold good amount of boost at redline? I heard it doesn't flatline if you shift at redline is this true?

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