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    JB4 ISO 27.8 METH SAFETY CHANGES

    Hi guys,

    Testing out ISO 27.8 which includes some changes and new options to the JB4 meth flow settings.

    First a brief overview. Generally speaking methanol is run with map 3 which adjusts boost between a low and a high boost map as a function of methanol flow and the user defined meth additive. The boost scale for the high and low map is posted below. This additive is typically 40 on pump gas (which targets around 17psi) and can go as high as 75 to target up to 20psi. Technically speaking if using the 3.5 bar map sensor it can be raised as high as 100 to provide values higher than the 75 additive.

    We've moved the previous non-meth FUB options to FUD. For FUE the option to disable NLS has been replaced by setting menu 9 in dash (the 2STEP RPM) to 0.

    This frees up FUE to be dedicated to meth control options (e.g. for those using the FSB), and FUB to be used for meth safety options (which apply to the FSB kits, Aquamist kits, etc).

    FUE (MethFlow): They are all self explanatory. You have the option now to allow methanol flow on map 3 only allowing your map 6 or map 7 to be a non-meth map. Not documented below is that we've also removed the meth additive on map 6. It was a good option in theory but caused too much confusion among map 6 users. So users who are using map 6 on meth will want to use one of the other methanol safety options now.

    FUB (MethSafety): Due to popular demand we've added some new options here.

    Note that all options work with either the FSB based kit or the Aquamist turbine flow sensor kit.

    Option 0: The default meth safety mode is the most comprehensive methanol safety in the industry. Boost is raised as a function of methanol flow only raised AFTER methanol is properly flowing as verified by the FSB or turbine flow sensor. This prevents knock during spool up and post shift where it is possible for boost to hit before methanol does.

    In addition the JB4 monitors historic knock activity to ensure the fluid being injected is sufficient to prevent knock for the boost/timing curve dialed in. Methanol mixture variances, weather changes, etc, can all effect whether or not a given mixture is sufficient for the tuning. Add in a little too much water one day, use fluid that isn't as potent as it should be, go out on a cold night where air is denser than normal, do a run to 140mph where IAT goes higher than normal, etc, and you can quickly find yourself running in to knock if the fluid isn't up to the task. JB4 owners of course can always monitor timing in dash but I'm sure few do. This safety works full time behind the scenes to protect your engine from this sort of a situation.

    But all this safety comes at a price. Waiting for methanol to get up to flow before raising boost up to full target means you sometimes need to delay boost while methanol starts flowing. And sometimes when you are racing you want to keep full boost even with some knock because winning the race is more important to you. So we've got some other options below.


    Option 1: This is the same as FUB = 100 previously. Boost increases are mapped on methanol flow but the historic timing activity is ignored. This was previously added prior to the "flatline fix" where timing would drop negative post shift in some cars not due to knock but due to torque management. The JB4 would incorrectly interpret this timing drop as knock and reduce boost accordingly. So this was a way to bypass that system. Today it's used by those who wish to monitor timing directly and for whatever reason do not want boost reduced as a function of low timing. Often by those running E85 + meth.

    Option 2: This is a new option, lovingly referred to as "Spray and Pray", and is equivalent Aquamist flash only safety. With this setting the JB4 assumes you have full methanol flow and enough octane to prevent knock and makes no attempt to drop boost unless methanol falls below your user defined scaling value for 1500ms while boost is greater than 12 psi.

    If methanol flow does fall below the flow value you define then a map 4 switch is initiated and the SES light will flash 3 times. Technically this implementation is better than the AM kit becuase AM can only open the wastegates which bleed off boost over the course of a couple of seconds, while the JB4 map switch will instantly close the throttle body, reduce timing, and simultaneously open the wastegate. So boost to the engine is reduced faster during a failsafe trigger. And you are alerted in dash to what has happened.

    Note that while we don't suggest option 2 due to its non-integrated nature the benefit here is going to be quicker boost response. When you decide not to worry about spool up knock and whether or not your methanol flow is sufficient for the tuning the car can feel more responsive. It's a bit like burring your head in the sand but for those running E85 + meth its less of a risk than those running pump + meth.

    Option 3: This allows you to use map 3 in non-meth or non-safety situations. Absolutely no safety is provided and you get the boost curve you set via the meth additive (menu 8 in dash) regardless of methanol flow. It's a useful custom tuning option as you can slide your boost curve between the two curves on the fly. A 75 additive would give the high curve, a 0 additive the low curve, and anything in between blends them. Those wanting something a little stronger than map 7 could go with say a 70 additive and those wanting something a bit weaker than map 7 could go with say a 60 additive. Lots of options here for non-meth users. Click here to enlarge

    The new firmware is below along with notes on the new FutureUse settings.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JB4 FutureUse options as of 27.8

    Meth Safety (was FUB):

    0 - Raise boost as a function of meth flow & historic timing (default)
    1 - Raise boost as a function of meth flow only
    2 - Start at high boost target and reduce IF flow drops below flow level for 1 second under boost.
    3 - Start at high boost target and disable all safety systems. Meth flow is completely ignored.

    Meth Flow (was FUE):

    0 - Meth flows on maps 3, 6, and 7 (default operation)
    1 - Meth flows on all maps
    2 - Meth flows on map 3 only
    3 - Meth is disabled on all maps


    FUD:
    1 - Disable steering wheel controls.
    2 - disable open loop fueling learning.
    4 - Output road speed KMH under low fuel pressure.
    5 - Output water temp under low fuel pressure
    6 - Output high fuel pressure out under low fuel pressure
    10 - Lock AFR output to Bank1. Output Bank2 AFR under low fuel pressure.
    11 - Output oiltemp under low fuel pressure.
    12 - Output bank 1 fuel trims under low fuel pressure.
    14 - Output clutch position under low fuel pressure. For troubleshooting NLS.
    17 - Open loop calculation as a function of actual boost target rather than delta over stock target.
    18 - Drop boost target more aggressively as a function of DTC intervention
    19 - Alternative partial throttle mapping algorithm
    99 - disable wastegate adaptation.
    100 - Use water temp in place of oil temp for warm up safety.

    FUA:
    1 to 100 - Lock in a differential between DME target and boost as observed by the DME. 0 = default operation. For diagnostic purposes only.

    AFR1500:
    Set to 1 to enable support for 3.5bar N20 TMAP sensor.

    1st/2nd gear traction control. When enabled, hold volume down if you need to disable (for doing a burn out, etc).
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 11-16-2013 at 09:05 PM.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    If I'm not using meth, should I update or not needed.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    @Terry@BMS can i run 100%meth + pump gas 93 at 19.5psi ?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135idct Click here to enlarge
    @Terry@BMS can i run 100%meth + pump gas 93 at 19.5psi ?
    You can run whatever you want that doesn't sound very safe to me unless timing is held very low via the pump gas flash, etc. It would be slower than the race flash at 18psi.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    How does the Jb4 blend the two curves together? Using linear interp. like this?

    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by MAC335; 11-16-2013 at 08:21 PM.
    Click here to enlarge
    460whp/510wtq tuned by Terry

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    If I'm not using meth, should I update or not needed.
    We also fixed a bug in map 0 and some other minor stuff but no reason to update in your case. Unless you want to play with the new map 3 option that lets you use the additive to set its curve. For running something a bit stronger than or a bit weaker than map 7 and being able to adjust it on the fly.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MAC335 Click here to enlarge
    How does the Jb4 blend the two curves together? Using linear interp. like this?
    Your plots look off as the set points at 2500rpm are not lower than the set points at 2000rpm, for example. But it's a linear blend from high to low by RPM as a function of meth flow and historic timing.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Your plots look off as the set points at 2500rpm are not lower than the set points at 2000rpm, for example. But it's a linear blend from high to low by RPM as a function of meth flow and historic timing.
    Just checked it and its exactly what you posted in the first post.

    And this is just as a function of additive only. Option 3 I think.

    Edit: Is that boost pressure i.e 140 = 14.0 psi?

    Edit2: That first plot was with smooth curves, here is the same with straight lines. Its the same target at those 2 points, the curve fit was making it look lower.

    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by MAC335; 11-16-2013 at 08:36 PM.
    Click here to enlarge
    460whp/510wtq tuned by Terry

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    Our curves look identical now that I used straight lines to connect the points. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    460whp/510wtq tuned by Terry

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MAC335 Click here to enlarge
    Our curves look identical now that I used straight lines to connect the points. Click here to enlarge
    I like the idea of representing it in an excel sheet showing the mid points. Also rescaled the curve to take out the old VANOS dip. I adjusted the points in the firmware and corresponding graphic. So remove yours as it will just confuse people now. Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 11-16-2013 at 09:12 PM.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I like the idea of representing it in an excel sheet showing the mid points. Also rescaled the curve to take out the old VANOS dip. I adjusted the points in the firmware and corresponding graphic. So remove yours as it will just confuse people now. Click here to enlarge
    Very nice! I like the changes. Something minor with the graph, I see 6 labels and only 5 curves.

    I would take mine down but something about a 10min limit to edit posts? I can't remove the attached picture. @Sticky

    Last edited by MAC335; 11-16-2013 at 10:16 PM.
    Click here to enlarge
    460whp/510wtq tuned by Terry

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    i like what im reading on option 3.
    im going to download this new update the and try it out tomorrow

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    I didn't see 27.8 on your website it must still be in testing

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    @Terry@BMS For the sake of comparison between the two maps, is it correct to say that Map 7 is similar to running on the new Map 3, Option 3, and 65 Additive?
    Click here to enlarge
    460whp/510wtq tuned by Terry

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by wreckz Click here to enlarge
    I didn't see 27.8 on your website it must still be in testing
    Look harder. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MAC335 Click here to enlarge
    @Terry@BMS For the sake of comparison between the two maps, is it correct to say that Map 7 is similar to running on the new Map 3, Option 3, and 65 Additive?
    Roughly similar. You could log both and see the actual differences in target. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    found it
    thank you

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    I need a fsb and try all this ...


    terry good job and thank you very much for your help the other dayClick here to enlarge
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    You can run whatever you want that doesn't sound very safe to me unless timing is held very low via the pump gas flash, etc. It would be slower than the race flash at 18psi.
    if i set 50add + pump gas93 is it similar to map7 18.5 psi or map 7 stronger?

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    Anything you decide to do should be based off logs from your specific car. I'm not going to give you tuning advice based on a forum post. But generally speaking a 50 additive on 93 octane + 100% meth is fairly aggressive but not unsafe.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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