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  1. #76
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    Racing is so oldskool, that's why they make keyboards...

  2. #77
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    Great numbers VTT
    418whp/476wtq, 0-60 in 4.02s
    535i Sport Jet Black | LCSW | DP WT | ZCW | ZPP | ZSP | 261 | 2TB | 322 | 415 | 416 | 609 | 610 | 620 | 677 | 6FL | 6UH |F/R Cameras | Escort 9500ix |
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  3. #78
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    MIR has them occasionally
    I've been out to MIR for import v domestics and such, I wasn't aware they had something long enough for a roll race.

  4. #79
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    Any 6x6 results?

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    To sum it up, VVT Stage 2 Batch 2 und RB are basically now on the same level with a given tune/fuel/hardware?

    That means that maybe the GTX 6x6 compressor wheel configuration could make a (small) difference?

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    I'm was thinking the same thing and I was debating if I really need the 6x6 upgrade. If the stage 2s, without the 6x6 upgrade, can perform anything like the RB turbos did at Shift Sector I would be happy with that. BTW where there any VTT cars out there? All I've seen was the RB car taking a sh** on just about everything it went against.
    E92 Monaco Blue AT 335I/ VTT S2B2/ JB4 G5 w/ BB Flash/ BMS DCI/ ER CP w/ Synaspe BOV/ M2 Exhaust/VRSF Dp's/ ETS 5' FMIC/ BMS OCC/ Coolingmist CMGS Autolearn Meth Kit/ VMR V710/ ST V1 Coilovers/BMS Spacers/Aero Lip/m3 replica side skirts/m3 Spoiler/BSW stage 1 audio uprade/ P3 Gauge/Morimoto 15k HID AE/3k HID Fogs/ interior led upgrade/ painted reflectors/ black kidney grills

  7. #82
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    * I meant No Fly Zone 3 Click here to enlarge
    E92 Monaco Blue AT 335I/ VTT S2B2/ JB4 G5 w/ BB Flash/ BMS DCI/ ER CP w/ Synaspe BOV/ M2 Exhaust/VRSF Dp's/ ETS 5' FMIC/ BMS OCC/ Coolingmist CMGS Autolearn Meth Kit/ VMR V710/ ST V1 Coilovers/BMS Spacers/Aero Lip/m3 replica side skirts/m3 Spoiler/BSW stage 1 audio uprade/ P3 Gauge/Morimoto 15k HID AE/3k HID Fogs/ interior led upgrade/ painted reflectors/ black kidney grills

  8. #83
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Shadow007 Click here to enlarge
    * I meant No Fly Zone 3 Click here to enlarge
    yeah i was there those RB's aint no joke I'm just waiting results for the 6x6 wheel like everyone else
    E50 PTF

  9. #84
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigHoncho Click here to enlarge
    To sum it up, VVT Stage 2 Batch 2 und RB are basically now on the same level with a given tune/fuel/hardware?

    That means that maybe the GTX 6x6 compressor wheel configuration could make a (small) difference?
    No one can say for sure, that’s the point.

    The bottom line limiting factor is the size of the housings, they’re just small ass frames and there is nothing you can do about that. So Tony and Rob have worked hard to squeeze more flow out, but there is only so much that can be done. On paper Tony’s wheel should offer more efficiency, but the data sample is close to nil.

    So we’ll see. I expect the VTT Stg 2 to do very well.
    E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Motiv Port Fuel/BMR 3.5" Exhaust/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/ST Coilovers/M3 FCA + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/AA Strutbrace/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
    F30 335 X-Drive EBII....PPK otherwise Stock
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  10. #85
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jlcf22 Click here to enlarge
    yeah i was there those RB's aint no joke I'm just waiting results for the 6x6 wheel like everyone else
    As been stated many times now, the 6x6 wheels will flow more air per shaft revolution, what this means is less shaft speed for the same boost flow, and more flow potential, but air flow is not our problem, exhaust flow is, the 6x6 wheels are going to increase life by lowering shaft speeds by as much as 25K in certain areas. This is a lot. Yes they will flow more air up top, but boost already has to be tapered so radically to keep them alive the extra flow will be hard to realize up there.

  11. #86
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    Everyone needs to think of it this way: If power is your ultimate goal you're going to have to ditch the stock housings completely.

    If you want a decent bump in power over the stock turbos then stage 2s should do fine.
    Click here to enlarge
    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  12. #87
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    As been stated many times now, the 6x6 wheels will flow more air per shaft revolution, what this means is less shaft speed for the same boost flow, and more flow potential, but air flow is not our problem, exhaust flow is, the 6x6 wheels are going to increase life by lowering shaft speeds by as much as 25K in certain areas. This is a lot. Yes they will flow more air up top, but boost already has to be tapered so radically to keep them alive the extra flow will be hard to realize up there.
    Ok, so let me make sure I'm understanding this right. The billet upgrade pretty much extends the life of the turbos just like the thrust upgrade, and any gains would be minimal, correct? I'm still learning about what does what and how, so that's why I'm asking questions. I'll be completely happy with my upgrade since I know what there capable of. According to the videos from the No Fly Zone event, if the stage 2 are equivalent to RBs I'm more than happy to that I could sh** on exotics and domestics cars Click here to enlarge. I can't wait until the Spring time, a friend of mine has an M3 and we talk sh** to each other all the time. I can already beat him I'm quite sure with a fbo+meth setup, but this upgrade will be the icing on the cake Click here to enlarge
    E92 Monaco Blue AT 335I/ VTT S2B2/ JB4 G5 w/ BB Flash/ BMS DCI/ ER CP w/ Synaspe BOV/ M2 Exhaust/VRSF Dp's/ ETS 5' FMIC/ BMS OCC/ Coolingmist CMGS Autolearn Meth Kit/ VMR V710/ ST V1 Coilovers/BMS Spacers/Aero Lip/m3 replica side skirts/m3 Spoiler/BSW stage 1 audio uprade/ P3 Gauge/Morimoto 15k HID AE/3k HID Fogs/ interior led upgrade/ painted reflectors/ black kidney grills

  13. #88
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    As been stated many times now, the 6x6 wheels will flow more air per shaft revolution, what this means is less shaft speed for the same boost flow, and more flow potential, but air flow is not our problem, exhaust flow is, the 6x6 wheels are going to increase life by lowering shaft speeds by as much as 25K in certain areas. This is a lot. Yes they will flow more air up top, but boost already has to be tapered so radically to keep them alive the extra flow will be hard to realize up there.
    However...
    What I want: 450 WTQ @3500-6000rpm @<16psi with a FBO car on regular (93) pumpe gas (no meth or Exx mixes).

    Is that possible with you stage 2 batch 2 GTX wheel?

  14. #89
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    Boost is(not even) half the story. You NEED to feed the engine the octane it needs to make power. On 93 octane you're limiting your ability to make torque down low and without meth CATs will become a limiting factor fairly quickly in a multi-gear pull.
    Click here to enlarge
    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    As been stated many times now, the 6x6 wheels will flow more air per shaft revolution, what this means is less shaft speed for the same boost flow, and more flow potential, but air flow is not our problem, exhaust flow is, the 6x6 wheels are going to increase life by lowering shaft speeds by as much as 25K in certain areas. This is a lot. Yes they will flow more air up top, but boost already has to be tapered so radically to keep them alive the extra flow will be hard to realize up there.
    Any benefit to clipping the turbine? I'd think there would be more flow there if the BP is excessive and the compressor is doing fine.

  16. #91
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    You can clip all you want but you're still trying to breath through a straw. At a certain point it becomes counterproductive. That point is pretty much known already... look at it in this oversimplified, somewhat inaccurate way: Say your exhaust manifold can move 50lbs of air before it becomes so backed up it's like trying to fit a sumo wrestler into a VW bug. At low RPM, your engine isn't really breathing very well... so you can PUSH that 50lbs of air into the motor with full force of 24psi through those stage 2's and be fine, since the turbo's are good for it and the exhaust is good for it.

    But now as RPM starts to increase, the engine begins to breath better naturally. Now, just because the turbo's can move 100lbs of air up high, doesn't mean your exhaust can. So you have to dial them back, cut boost, because the engine is now able to move 50lbs of air with 16psi, which is maxing out your exhaust. More boost won't help much, but would probably blow things up because you'd have to spin the turbo's crazy high to get any more AIRFLOW (different than boost) through the engine, because it's plugged by the exhaust manifold.

    A constant airflow as RPM increases causes a decrease in torque, because torque is a number intimately related to airflow (which relates to horsepower) and RPM. It also sadly hurts HP, because as RPM goes up you need more airflow to make the same power you made at lower RPM due to things like friction increases, volumetric efficiency decreases, etc etc etc etc. This might sound counterintuitive, because usually it's smart to rev higher to make power. Well yes, your engine has the ability to process more airflow at higher RPM... but only if your exhaust, intake, etc are able to manage that airflow up there. Ours does not, so it doesn't matter what you do to the turbo. The exhaust primaries are smaller than they look, our manifold is a manifold-in-a-manifold design to manage heat. Tiny 'lil primaries of doom.

  17. #92
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    Boost is(not even) half the story. You NEED to feed the engine the octane it needs to make power. On 93 octane you're limiting your ability to make torque down low and without meth CATs will become a limiting factor fairly quickly in a multi-gear pull.
    Understood, but a don't need that much TQ down low, also because of the auto. transmission (mechanical limit).
    But to get the power you need TQ @higher revs, otherwise you could stick with stock turbos.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigHoncho Click here to enlarge
    But to get the power you need TQ @higher revs, otherwise you could stick with stock turbos.
    Yes, to get the power you need TQ @higher revs, i.e. big single.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Yes, to get the power you need TQ @higher revs, i.e. big single.
    Which means that any upgraded turbos (based on stock designs) only gives more TQ in low and mid RPM area, which does not contribute to top power?
    That would be the reason why top power is not that much extended compared with well tuned stock turbos.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigHoncho Click here to enlarge
    Which means that any upgraded turbos (based on stock designs) only gives more TQ in low and mid RPM area, which does not contribute to top power?
    That would be the reason why top power is not that much extended compared with well tuned stock turbos.
    Stock frame upgrades don't contribute much to the peak power. Also, their whp still drops in the top end, albeit less dramatically than with the stockers.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Stock frame upgrades don't contribute much to the peak power. Also, their whp still drops in the top end, albeit less dramatically than with the stockers.
    All those dynos and talk, but this point hasn't been named clearly so far (no offense, just wondering).

    I think i'll stay with stock turbos, as I want peak power without exotic fueling.
    For really increased peak power maybe a combination of upgraded turbos with head working and all new exhaust system would give you more.

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    Stock turbos with great fuel will max out before exhaust housing limitations are met, but the housings do play a role in their peak power. In hybrids, this is more substantial. With the vtt stage 2 with the billet wheels, the exhaust housings will be the bottleneck even with great octane in theory.But compared to stock turbos you will gain a lot more power up top. And through the mid range. The stock turbos are not really capable of the flow numbers required to max out the exhaust... and are more restrictive by nature. The hybrids are les restrictive and in essence make the manifold the limiting factor, while also providing the airflow to realize that limit. That equates to some nice gains.... especially at mid/high rpms... But if your looking for major high rpm power you need a better manifold and better flowing turbo IE big single or bigger twins. Hybrids are ideal for making much more power under the curve by extending the powerband to the right and up just slightly in the midrange, but you still have to taper to redline some.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    Stock turbos with great fuel will max out before exhaust housing limitations are met, but the housings do play a role in their peak power. In hybrids, this is more substantial. With the vtt stage 2 with the billet wheels, the exhaust housings will be the bottleneck even with great octane in theory.But compared to stock turbos you will gain a lot more power up top. And through the mid range. The stock turbos are not really capable of the flow numbers required to max out the exhaust... and are more restrictive by nature. The hybrids are les restrictive and in essence make the manifold the limiting factor, while also providing the airflow to realize that limit. That equates to some nice gains.... especially at mid/high rpms... But if your looking for major high rpm power you need a better manifold and better flowing turbo IE big single or bigger twins. Hybrids are ideal for making much more power under the curve by extending the powerband to the right and up just slightly in the midrange, but you still have to taper to redline some.
    Well, the numbers I see indicate that @6000rpm there is not that much difference in torque, between stock an hybrids. As a driver I don't care why. All I want to know is, is there substantial gains in peak power (above 5500rpm) or not? For me its not the low- oder mid rpm TQ game, I want a flat and as less tapered as possible TQ curve. Its a different engine/hardware but look at the upcoming M4 :-)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigHoncho Click here to enlarge
    Well, the numbers I see indicate that @6000rpm there is not that much difference in torque, between stock an hybrids. As a driver I don't care why. All I want to know is, is there substantial gains in peak power (above 5500rpm) or not? For me its not the low- oder mid rpm TQ game, I want a flat and as less tapered as possible TQ curve. Its a different engine/hardware but look at the upcoming M4 :-)
    Then you want the efficiency and curve of a single turbo setup or big twin setup. The stock frames need to taper boost, regardless of whether they are upgraded internally or not. Will you make more power and have more area under the curve up top on hybrid twins? Yes, of course. But unless you are running them on a kill map, you’ll need to taper down the boost to keep heat and backpressure from smoking things.
    E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Motiv Port Fuel/BMR 3.5" Exhaust/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/ST Coilovers/M3 FCA + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/AA Strutbrace/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
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    Stage two and rb turbos should be/are capable of holding over 400wtq to around 6200, and taper to around 360 if you run them out. Stock frame turbos usually make 360wtq by 6k and taper to around 300 when ran out. The stock tune drops to mid/low 200wtq if you run it out. This all assumes fbo and good gas.

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