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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Exactly.

    If one guy loses he changes a pulley. The other guy loses he change a pulley. They can keep this game going until an engine lets go.



    Yep.
    I hope they change the tune too!

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    I hope they change the tune too!
    Well you know how that goes. Some do, some don't. Click here to enlarge

  3. #53
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    Now someone also pointed out boost on the Rotrex kits.

    Yes, 10 PSI is EASY to achieve on a Rotrex.

    However, is it 10 PSI with high temperature air or cold?

    The air mass changes massively.

    If we run our kits at 10 PSi you will have a mess of an engine to deal with in a very short period of time. Or... we will have to reduce timing and lower cylinder pressure with valve overlap to keep the engine safe. Therefore entering a scenario where big boost ... well... doesn't exactly do a lot!

    It will for a few dyno runs though and if we did this it would certainly help sell the kit with some inconsistent numbers.

    A bit like non intercooled blower kits. 1 hit wonders on the dyno and the road. HP being shown is best run. Real HP on the road is way less as IAT's rise.

    At 6.5 PSi we are making an equivalent of 625hp if we rate in dynojet numbers and in the same way other kits are rated.
    We just call it 600hp because of our dyno. We will change this now.

    At 8 PSi we make 630+ on our dyno. On dynojets we make well over 550 with this setup.

    However, the boost curve/air flow massively changes through the midrange. It's like someone changed for a different blower. The midrange boost goes up by quite a bit. Car becomes a complete tyre shredder and you can forget about the meaning of grip. You would need some excellent skills at a drag strip. Ask Imran...... he tried and utterly failed to get real grip until 4th gear on the 1/4mile and still managed a very very good trap speed.

    We can keep going too.....

    If our intercooler was less efficient we would need more boost or airflow to compensate for the lesser air mass to achieve the same on road results.

    This last statement is something that is hardly ever discussed. THERMAL EFFICIENCY.

    However, things might change with out kit soon. I have been talking to a company in the USA who specialises heavily in FMIC and charge cooling setups. They know way more than any of us tuners do due to them having developed for years in this areas from road cars to full out race cars.
    We may be able to improve the efficiency further, have a lower pressure drop and better temps.

    However.... then we hit another wall. We have to slow down the blower further taking is way from the current compressor path. We lose the midrange and keep the high end power. Why? Because we end up making too much boost with high air mass and the engine doesn't like that!
    Infact, we need a smaller blower then! A C38-81.

    See how much of a balancing act it all is!

    You must balance the correct boost curve with the best thermal efficiency.

    So we are dealing with compressor maps, pressure drop and thermal efficiency all at the same time!
    Thank god we can get away with just one injector size for all otherwise that's then an even bigger nightmare.

    Very rarely do I as a person say great things about my own stuff.

    However, in the case of our supercharger kit (which had many people involved in the development) I can comfortably say it is far ahead in terms of build quality, finish, engineering and taking many factors into account. It has the best thermal efficiency at the mid level boost category. It has by far the best drive and feel with a very nice response. It is the only kit out there that feels like the stock engine with just .... more.
    And no one yet even knows what the 8 PSI kit does :-)

    It's just the price is higher by around $2,000 on average.


    Oh and one more thing. I am currently working on a 7 PSI kit which has the same torque and midrange as the 8 PSi kit.
    How am I achieving this?

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well you know how that goes. Some do, some don't. Click here to enlarge
    That's why some have had major problems. Without telling the kit makers, they do this and then go back and complain something went wrong. In the open forum scene this is only known a little. In the real world of meets, face to face, telephone contact - it's an utterly different world of what actually goes on out there.

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Not true... There's an M3P member who has the Evolve kit, prob a few more floating around that aren't forum junkies, and I'm sure a lot more will start popping up after Xmas...... @bobS
    Thanks for mentioning that.

    We have a whole host of kits out there.

    I think people do notice that we don't really do a great deal to advertise our kit.

    The majority of our customer base comes from non forum posters and users. Usually people who don't have the time.

    The come and drive our demo car, they go drive another one and pick ours.

    It is being supplied to those who want the very best quality and overall delivery for a little more money.
    The way these guys figure it is - If we are going to spend 12, why not spend 14 and go for something that is taken to a higher level.

    It's not a kit that can really tell you much in pictures of videos.

    Actually, for us it is so much better this way. We don't have the forum wars like this, we sell an amount we are comfortable with (every evolve SC car gets a dyno session and we make sure we are hitting the safe targets we know are good).
    It's not ever going to be a high mass production type thing.

    However, we will make a non intercooled low boost 6 rib version for those who want to enter this upgrade and build up slowly. We may also give the option of a cast plenum to bring the price down to those who really want it.
    We can also produce the whole kit in the US and that saves quite a bit of money too because we lose the shipping and some parts are cheaper to make there.
    That's for the future though, lot's of other projects going on too which need more attention.

  6. #56
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    If I missed anyone's questions - please do say.

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for mentioning that.

    We have a whole host of kits out there.

    I think people do notice that we don't really do a great deal to advertise our kit.

    The majority of our customer base comes from non forum posters and users. Usually people who don't have the time.

    The come and drive our demo car, they go drive another one and pick ours.

    It is being supplied to those who want the very best quality and overall delivery for a little more money.
    The way these guys figure it is - If we are going to spend 12, why not spend 14 and go for something that is taken to a higher level.

    It's not a kit that can really tell you much in pictures of videos.

    Actually, for us it is so much better this way. We don't have the forum wars like this, we sell an amount we are comfortable with (every evolve SC car gets a dyno session and we make sure we are hitting the safe targets we know are good).
    It's not ever going to be a high mass production type thing.

    However, we will make a non intercooled low boost 6 rib version for those who want to enter this upgrade and build up slowly. We may also give the option of a cast plenum to bring the price down to those who really want it.
    We can also produce the whole kit in the US and that saves quite a bit of money too because we lose the shipping and some parts are cheaper to make there.
    That's for the future though, lot's of other projects going on too which need more attention.
    Are there any demos available on the West Coast or can I help with this somehow?

  8. #58
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    If I missed anyone's questions - please do say.
    I have a question, are you prepared for the aftermath of the rampage im going to go on to smash world records and rip the paint off the competitions doors 2014?

    BTW, I cant post new threads, so here are afew more runs from last month, inlcluding the rematch with the ESS 650 E90 DCT (remember he ran 10.8 @128mph just the week before) I regret not coming prepared with sticky tires.. that will not happen again Click here to enlarge


    Still waiting on finish line videos to circulate, those are going to be goooooooood!

  9. #59
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    LM,

    your car sounds and looks awesome man!

    I like it a alot!

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alex325i Click here to enlarge
    LM,

    your car sounds and looks awesome man!

    I like it a alot!
    Thank you, im kinda fond of it as well Click here to enlarge

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    The biggest differences between the Evolve and AA Rotrex kits:

    - Evolve uses the existing pulley positions but converts to 8 Rib. AA extends the pulley further out and uses an independent drive. Evolve harder to fit (1 hour more) but there is less load on the crank.
    - FMIC majorly different routing. Evolve has a very short path going through the front panel without cutting. AA takes more conventional tube route but major major cutting is required to many parts. Clearly they thought (and rightly so in our opinion) that doing this for an FMIC setup was well worth it.
    - Air intake system majorly different. Evolve uses complex CAD designed intake running air filter in the lower air duct (high up). AA uses one on the back of the blower and makes a heat surround with a cold air feed.
    - FMIC setup vastly different, Evolve unit is very large, does create a higher pressure drop but compensates with excellent cooling capabilities.
    - AA uses a 92 trim housing vs Evolve 91. The bigger housing allows for a larger inlet but this makes no difference at all.
    - AA used 3 atmospheric BOV's. Evolve uses two recirculating
    - AA plenum cast - Evolve plenum CNC machined with internal deflectors to direct air equally accross cylinders to ensure no one cylinder has more air than the other.
    - AA uses longer velocity stacks than Evolve which uses shorter ones.

    These are the main differences. AA feel free to comment in case I have made any incorrect statements.
    Thanks for your input. I'm leaning towards Evolve, I just need to start demodding my 335 and gather up the funds.

    Do you have any installers in Texas? I was thinking about sending my car up to Undercover, but wouldn't the tune be a little off since the weather up there is so different from down here?
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

    2007 e92 Mont. Blue 335i | 6MT | COBB Tuned | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Helix FMIC | AA DPs | HKS Exhaust | DCI | Stett CP w/ Forged DVs | KWv2 Coilovers | UUC Sway Bars & SSK | HPF Stg 2 Clutch | HFS-4 | M3 Suspension Bits | DEFIVfab Diff Lockdown Kit | Stoptech Trophy BBK

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    I regret not coming prepared with sticky tires.. that will not happen again Click here to enlarge
    Would love to see what you would have run with DRs, trap speed was very nice tho!
    2015 F82 M4 - DCT - YMB
    | Stock for Now |

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for mentioning that.

    We have a whole host of kits out there.

    I think people do notice that we don't really do a great deal to advertise our kit.

    The majority of our customer base comes from non forum posters and users. Usually people who
    don't have the time.

    The come and drive our demo car, they go drive another one and pick ours.

    It is being supplied to those who want the very best quality and overall delivery for a little more
    money.

    The way these guys figure it is - If we are going to spend 12, why not spend 14 and go for something that is taken to a higher level.

    It's not a kit that can really tell you much in pictures of videos.

    Actually, for us it is so much better this way. We don't have the forum wars like this, we sell an amount we are comfortable with (every evolve SC car gets a dyno session and we make sure we are hitting the safe targets we know are good).

    It's not ever going to be a high mass production type thing.

    However, we will make a non intercooled low boost 6 rib version for those who want to enter this upgrade and build up slowly. We may also give the option of a cast plenum to bring the price down to those who really want it.
    We can also produce the whole kit in the US and that saves quite a bit of money too because we lose the shipping and some parts are cheaper to make there.
    That's for the future though, lot's of other projects going on too which need more attention.

    If your looking for a guy to demo the non intercooled kit...then upgrade, pm me...I'm completely serious
    Click here to enlarge
    ESS 6XX kit

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge
    Would love to see what you would have run with DRs, trap speed was very nice tho!
    Me too. I think 129 and 130 were doable. The car just flies through the rpms so fast. The 2 ess guys there are friends, but im gonna enjoy flying right past them.. contemplating a Euro only shootout day to set the record straight once and for all,.

    I have Undercover pricing out new tires for wll my vehicle s currently, r888 for street and MT for the track

    The best part is, is that I know my car runs the smoothest, everytime, all the time better, than anyone elses.. just like stock, but massively more powerul. Thats what I find so comical about all of this. Whos fasternwill go on forever as its just about power to weight, but thats all the enjoyment theynget 8ut of it is WOT fullmtilt runs. My car on the other hand is infinitely rewarding to drive at any speed, and thats what the 8thers will never have Click here to enlarge

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Me too. I think 129 and 130 were doable. The car just flies through the rpms so fast. The 2 ess guys there are friends, but im gonna enjoy flying right past them.. contemplating a Euro only shootout day to set the record straight once and for all,.

    I have Undercover pricing out new tires for wll my vehicle s currently, r888 for street and MT for the track

    The best part is, is that I know my car runs the smoothest, everytime, all the time better, than anyone elses.. just like stock, but massively more powerul. Thats what I find so comical about all of this. Whos fasternwill go on forever as its just about power to weight, but thats all the enjoyment theynget 8ut of it is WOT fullmtilt runs. My car on the other hand is infinitely rewarding to drive at any speed, and thats what the 8thers will never have Click here to enlarge
    Spoken like a true Evolve fanboi!

    j/k

    I am really torn, love the Evolve products but the price tag is steep, I am going to have to get over this sticker shock.
    2015 F82 M4 - DCT - YMB
    | Stock for Now |

  16. #66
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    Can we fix the title? We all know who is and who isn't a sponsor on this site. Sponsors should be named first.

    Evolve Automotive E600 supercharged E92 M3 versus ESS Tuning VT2-625 supercharged E92 M3
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

    2007 e92 Mont. Blue 335i | 6MT | COBB Tuned | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Helix FMIC | AA DPs | HKS Exhaust | DCI | Stett CP w/ Forged DVs | KWv2 Coilovers | UUC Sway Bars & SSK | HPF Stg 2 Clutch | HFS-4 | M3 Suspension Bits | DEFIVfab Diff Lockdown Kit | Stoptech Trophy BBK

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    Can we fix the title? We all know who is and who isn't a sponsor on this site. Sponsors should be named first.

    Evolve Automotive E600 supercharged E92 M3 versus ESS Tuning VT2-625 supercharged E92 M3
    Really dude? Does the order matter? I assure you Google picks it up regardless of the order.

  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Really dude? Does the order matter? I assure you Google picks it up regardless of the order.
    It matters in the legal world Click here to enlarge
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

    2007 e92 Mont. Blue 335i | 6MT | COBB Tuned | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Helix FMIC | AA DPs | HKS Exhaust | DCI | Stett CP w/ Forged DVs | KWv2 Coilovers | UUC Sway Bars & SSK | HPF Stg 2 Clutch | HFS-4 | M3 Suspension Bits | DEFIVfab Diff Lockdown Kit | Stoptech Trophy BBK

  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    It matters in the legal world Click here to enlarge
    You need to stop thinking like a lawyer all the time: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=evolve+e600+versus+ess+625

  20. #70
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You need to stop thinking like a lawyer all the time: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=evolve+e600+versus+ess+625
    This is what I see in the search result:

    ESS Tuning VT2-625 supercharged E92 M3 versus Evolve

    Evolve gets cut off Click here to enlarge
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

    2007 e92 Mont. Blue 335i | 6MT | COBB Tuned | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Helix FMIC | AA DPs | HKS Exhaust | DCI | Stett CP w/ Forged DVs | KWv2 Coilovers | UUC Sway Bars & SSK | HPF Stg 2 Clutch | HFS-4 | M3 Suspension Bits | DEFIVfab Diff Lockdown Kit | Stoptech Trophy BBK

  21. #71
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    There is a character limit on google but Evolve is still cached hence why searching for Evolve brings it up. I can't make google display 100% of the characters in titles.

  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    There is a character limit on google but Evolve is still cached hence why searching for Evolve brings it up. I can't make google display 100% of the characters in titles.
    There's a character limit on your "Latest Posts" too. This is all that shows up for this thread: "ESS Tuning VT2-625..."

    I'm just messing with you, but it should be something you consider next time Click here to enlarge
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

    2007 e92 Mont. Blue 335i | 6MT | COBB Tuned | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Helix FMIC | AA DPs | HKS Exhaust | DCI | Stett CP w/ Forged DVs | KWv2 Coilovers | UUC Sway Bars & SSK | HPF Stg 2 Clutch | HFS-4 | M3 Suspension Bits | DEFIVfab Diff Lockdown Kit | Stoptech Trophy BBK

  23. #73
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    I'm going to go have some wine now. Consider that.

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm going to go have some wine now. Consider that.
    It's only 2:35 over there. Must be nice...
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

    2007 e92 Mont. Blue 335i | 6MT | COBB Tuned | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Helix FMIC | AA DPs | HKS Exhaust | DCI | Stett CP w/ Forged DVs | KWv2 Coilovers | UUC Sway Bars & SSK | HPF Stg 2 Clutch | HFS-4 | M3 Suspension Bits | DEFIVfab Diff Lockdown Kit | Stoptech Trophy BBK

  25. #75
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    It's only 2:35 over there. Must be nice...
    It's my birthday so technically I'm allowed to have it for breakfast even. I think that's even a law in France.

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