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  1. #1
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    What a M2 could look like

    What do you think, should BMW make this happen?

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    Yes, but I still wonder what engine they would put in it. The m235 is already at 330 hp with the n55 and the m3/m4 will have the s55 with 420-430ish hp. Maybe a s55 with smaller turbos? Wouldn't make much sense...
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    Should BMW build a 2015 F22 M2 and if they did what would it look and perform like?

    With the introduction of the F22 M235i (this is not an official BMW M model) the BMW enthusiast community is now debating whether or not BMW should introduce an M2 based on the F22 platform. Proponents will argue that the E82 1M was a success but opponents will say there is not much room between the M235i and the upcoming BMW M3/M4. Additionally, if BMW were to simply take the M235i, change the bodywork, and borrow some M3/M4 suspension and brake pieces there would be the question of whether this is a real M car like the criticism of the E82 1M.

    How this car would look is the easy part. Just take a look at the picture renderings below. Sexy? Sure, the car definitely would look good. The hard questions to answer are what would be under the hood. Just the same N55 motor with some more aggressive software? An M model without an M motor again? Would this really amount to anything more than an M235i with a tune and bodykit?

    BMW could take that route and do the path of least resistance offering maximum profit. BimmerBoost will give them as much flack as humanly possible if they do. Let's say an M2 does come, wouldn't a motor designed to compete with the Mercedes-Benz CLA45 AMG M133 four-cylinder make more sense?

    Then the problem of the N55 motor in the M235i outpowering a smaller four-cylinder in the aftermarket relatively easily arises. However, an M motor has never been about raw power. It is true that the N54 turbo six-cylinder in the 335i can make more power than the S65 V8 in the E92 M3 with an aftermarket tune. However, the more rewarding driving experience, response, and road course prowess is provided by the M3 V8.

    With the original E30 M3 BMW designed the famous S14 four-cylinder despite having a six-cylinder already available for duty in the E30. The S14 motor provided a driving experience and placement in the chassis giving a level of balance as well as a lighter weight that could not be matched by the six cylinder E30 models. The E30 M3 was the best E30 3-Series offering the most exciting driving experience despite not having the largest motor.

    BMW could repeat their history here and actually make a true spiritual successor to the E30 M3. Will they? Likely not, as chances are the M235i with some BMW Performance Parts will be where this all ends. It sure it interesting to think about what the M2 could potentially be though.

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    Those renderings are beautiful; that is one sexy looking little ride.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blitz535i Click here to enlarge
    Those renderings are beautiful; that is one sexy looking little ride.
    It really does look good. I am curious though - if this is a true "M" car, won't it bite into the M3/4 segment? Unless it's a 235 ///M Sport+ Ultra, it wouldn't make much sense to me to make a 235i - a true M2 and an M3. The cost couldn't be that much different given a true M engine/brakes/etc. - and it would also further dilute the M brand.

    I am betting if they do it, it will be similar to the 1M - tuned N55 and some suspension bits for 70k. It is a beautiful render though - given it's powered by a true M motor (whatever that is nowadays) - I would probably scoop this up over the M3/4 based on looks alone.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    if this is a true "M" car, won't it bite into the M3/4 segment?
    Most certainly.
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    I would say they will use the 328i N20 engine just with +100 HP or maybe the M235i engine with a twinsetup as it sounds idiotic to make the M2 4 cylinder Click here to enlarge

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    The n20 is a four cylinder so your point makes no sense.
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    The best possible realistic scenario would be an M2 with an "S20" with the costs being saved on the interior with only sport seats and steering wheel being the only significant change otherwise this car will not fit in the price bracket. Hopefully if this car gets green-lit BMW will spend its budget on things from the m3/m4 parts bin and s20 development and really make this an e30 successor

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    It really does look good. I am curious though - if this is a true "M" car, won't it bite into the M3/4 segment?
    Why should that matter? At the end of the day, BMW's profit margin on an M2 and an M3/M4 would be almost the same so why would they care if they sold a few less M3/M4s because those same people bought M2s? If anything, that would add to the exclusivity of the more expensive model. In my mind it makes perfect sense to give the M2 the same motor, suspension, diff, etc. as the M3/M4 and price it just a little lower. Instead of worrying about making a bargain M car, just position it as the smaller and lighter M4 in the $50-55,000 USD range. They can detune the motor a little if they really have to, but I never heard any M3 owners complaining at the Z3M and Z4M had the same motor as them in a smaller, lighter body.

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    Other than Body kit, suspension, bushings, interior upgrades; Typically on the "M" models get the LSD, and thats a big deal.

    At the road course this weekend I appreciated the value of what an LSD brings to the table. Spent time admiring the other cars in front of me on the power earlier coming out of a late Apex to a straight I was managing inside wheel spin.

    For me this meant I couldnt get an early jump on this viper to pass on the straight. All the time gained in the corners wasted. Owned the car for 4 yrs and never saw a major need for LSD until this past weekend(first HPDE with this car).

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    I really hope they do it. It would be weird for it to have an "S20", even though it would be exactly like the E30 scenario. I have mixed feelings about that. The BMW I6 M motors are some of the most wonderful, iconic power plants ever made. But, if they can pump out a 375 hp, turbo 4 M2, I wouldn't be mad. I just hate the sound of a 4 compared to a 6, sounds low rent. Turbo 4s always have a way of sounding like an angry vacuum cleaner. M3/4 running gear and the same engine maybe with smaller turbos, less boost, a more conservative tune, and maybe a manual gearbox only would also be very cool. All I know is I want that car up there, in that picture, with RWD and an M engine making 350+ hp. Other than that, I don't really care. And do it for less than 50k.

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    PLEASE do it, BMW............as it appears that with the relative & relatively recent bloating of BMW cars, the 2 is the new 3 - or 4. Click here to enlarge I mean, dammit, I thought AMG engineers are the ones who viewed curb weight as largely an 'engine builder's problem'?? Geez!

    Not that anyone's complaining about inciting German horsepower wars, you sweet, nasty M156s & M157s, among other AMG powerplants. Get those boys over @ BMW M-division and Audi Quattro to get with the program!! (LOOSE TRANSLATION: Can we get the Audi RS6 Avant in the US market, please??)

    So, while both the 235i or 'is' and M3/M4 are on my short list for the next vehicle to add to the garage, any one is a great choice in my view. Not to mention, even the current-gen M3's and it's V8 has to be on the list. (Okay............I'm obsessed with V8s, too; and the hell with gas prices.) Just won't have to do any aftermarket stuff on my own, for the most part, if the M is . Except for maybe some Renntech tuning, but that's a given.

    And while do drive a C63 sedan - after having a choice of three M3s locally at the time, no less..............still frickin obsessed with M3s, regardless of doors or convertible top.

    Can't wait.
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    BMW has an opportunity here to make a truly special M car. Let the 5/6 series M cars be the big brutes and the 3/4 cars be the middle-ground. The M2 should be a track-ready car ala the 997 Porsche GT3.

    The known specs for the 2-series put it within 9" of overall length, 2" of wheelbase, and nearly identical width as the Subaru BRZ. I compare the 2 to the BRZ because the Subaru weighs in at 2790lbs. BMW supposedly has a good base of knowledge in CF and CFRP materials now from the i projects... They should be able to make a 2 series of these dimensions come down to that weight, if not lower. No iDrive, no sunroof, no heated this and that, cloth interior only, thin lightweight glass, minimal sound insulation, etc, etc. Factory installed roll cage optional, as would be a lightweight racing seat sourced from Recaro and carbon ceramic brakes.

    A chassis that light probably couldn't be balanced to 50:50 weight distribution with a 6 cylinder, so they need a 4 pot. The easy thing would be to drop a tuned N20 in there and call it done. The challenge would be to create an S20, or perhaps a 2.5L S25, normally aspirated, making somewhere in the 300hp range. Honda got 123.5 hp/L out of the F20C that was used in the early S2000 models. A 2.5L motor with the same specific output would have 308hp. This would be a high-revving low torque motor, perfectly suited for a Motorsport application. If Honda did it, returning good MPG at the same time, and without the benefit of recent tech like direct injection, so can BMW.

    This could be a great statement from BMW about their performance brand, a hardcore car for real enthusiasts only. Those looking for luxury have plenty of other M cars to choose from.
    Last edited by whoosh; 11-13-2013 at 10:59 AM.
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    In an ideal world the M2 would have a naturally aspirated 6 cyl. 2.5L putting out low to mid 300's. @whoosh said it best. If Honda can do it, why not BMW? A 8.5k+ NA 2.5 I6 in the stated power range would be incredible. I know they wont design an engine like this from the ground up. I can dream, can't I?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
    Why should that matter? At the end of the day, BMW's profit margin on an M2 and an M3/M4 would be almost the same so why would they care if they sold a few less M3/M4s because those same people bought M2s? If anything, that would add to the exclusivity of the more expensive model. In my mind it makes perfect sense to give the M2 the same motor, suspension, diff, etc. as the M3/M4 and price it just a little lower. Instead of worrying about making a bargain M car, just position it as the smaller and lighter M4 in the $50-55,000 USD range. They can detune the motor a little if they really have to, but I never heard any M3 owners complaining at the Z3M and Z4M had the same motor as them in a smaller, lighter body.
    How happy would you be as an M3/4 owner, if you were able to get better performance - and have the same drivetrain/components/etc. for less money? It's not going to happen. It would be like offering the 1M instead with the S65B40 - and selling it for 50k - it wouldn't make much sense, and the M3 owners would be a little upset...

    Of course they didn't complain (re: Z3M/Z4M) - because it was still priced the same.

    My point was that if they have a lower model car for less money, and we already have the M235i (or whatever) - what possibly could this thing really be? IDK - I am not sure if it's coming across right - basically, I just don't see a market for this car if it's powered by a true M motor - it would HAVE to cost nearly the same as the M3 - at that point, what's the point?

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    If you put an S65 into a 1M you would have an unreal car.

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    I love it!!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge
    If you put an S65 into a 1M you would have an unreal car.
    Oh, for sure... But what about a SUPERCHARGED S65??!!! Click here to enlarge

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...8-Hurricane-RS

    EDIT: I love that car.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
    but I never heard any M3 owners complaining at the Z3M and Z4M had the same motor as them in a smaller, lighter body.
    Different segments though. Roadster...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
    I really hope they do it. It would be weird for it to have an "S20", even though it would be exactly like the E30 scenario. I have mixed feelings about that. The BMW I6 M motors are some of the most wonderful, iconic power plants ever made. But, if they can pump out a 375 hp, turbo 4 M2, I wouldn't be mad. I just hate the sound of a 4 compared to a 6, sounds low rent. Turbo 4s always have a way of sounding like an angry vacuum cleaner. M3/4 running gear and the same engine maybe with smaller turbos, less boost, a more conservative tune, and maybe a manual gearbox only would also be very cool. All I know is I want that car up there, in that picture, with RWD and an M engine making 350+ hp. Other than that, I don't really care. And do it for less than 50k.
    What if it sounds like this?

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  23. #23
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
    A chassis that light probably couldn't be balanced to 50:50 weight distribution with a 6 cylinder, so they need a 4 pot. The easy thing would be to drop a tuned N20 in there and call it done. The challenge would be to create an S20, or perhaps a 2.5L S25, normally aspirated, making somewhere in the 300hp range. Honda got 123.5 hp/L out of the F20C that was used in the early S2000 models. A 2.5L motor with the same specific output would have 308hp. This would be a high-revving low torque motor, perfectly suited for a Motorsport application. If Honda did it, returning good MPG at the same time, and without the benefit of recent tech like direct injection, so can BMW.
    No chance of a high revving NA motor at al.
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  24. #24
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DFM Click here to enlarge
    In an ideal world the M2 would have a naturally aspirated 6 cyl. 2.5L putting out low to mid 300's. @whoosh said it best. If Honda can do it, why not BMW? A 8.5k+ NA 2.5 I6 in the stated power range would be incredible. I know they wont design an engine like this from the ground up. I can dream, can't I?
    This would be ideal. We can all dream. It's to bad BMW doesn't see the opportunity here.
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  25. #25
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    BMW is still concerned with maxing profit margins. An enthusiast based car would be ideal, but they are not Porsche, who can make a limited run of whatever (GT2, GT3 RS, etc) and charge whatever they want for it, because people will buy exclusivity regardless of price. I hate to say it but BMW has watered themselves down to the masses and sell so many cars that anything limited run they come out with doesnt seem to hold a candle to what Porsche does...people would baulk at paying $120k for a GT3 competitor and I feel like they would sit on the lot.

    Porsche sells a fraction of what BMW does....always keeps demand up and the waiting list long for rare models. BMW also needs to start kicking ass in motorsports like Porsche has been doing for decades.

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