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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Justin@BoostAddictions Click here to enlarge
    BB flash is only a flashing app. People use it to flash the backend flash without the use of a Cobb. I've flashed my car over 20 times now without issue.
    just seems like a hassle with all the problems people posting on the forums. and there was that one time... Click here to enlarge lol
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  2. #27
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    Terry, cheers for all the responses btw. Good of you. I agree it could be driver related, but seems odd that it managed to read fine. I'd presume if the driver was having a communication problem, it'd not been able to read at all? I'll just try and find a way to recover an ECU which is in that state. It could've been that the driver was not compatible, but I think if it was something like that there would be more cases. More likely I think something failed during the write, and the software requires a response on some level before it can flash, where INPA does not...?

    Ak335i, completely agree, this isn't the avenue for everyone. Tuners are there for a reason, they do it all day every day and take that risk for you, and have the expertise to fix it if something does go wrong!

    I can't give up though! I'll try and get to the root cause of what failed, but it's a difficult task with the tools I have available!

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dan_S Click here to enlarge
    Terry, cheers for all the responses btw. Good of you. I agree it could be driver related, but seems odd that it managed to read fine. I'd presume if the driver was having a communication problem, it'd not been able to read at all? I'll just try and find a way to recover an ECU which is in that state. It could've been that the driver was not compatible, but I think if it was something like that there would be more cases. More likely I think something failed during the write, and the software requires a response on some level before it can flash, where INPA does not...?

    Ak335i, completely agree, this isn't the avenue for everyone. Tuners are there for a reason, they do it all day every day and take that risk for you, and have the expertise to fix it if something does go wrong!

    I can't give up though! I'll try and get to the root cause of what failed, but it's a difficult task with the tools I have available!
    \

    just keep plugging away! you will learn a lot thats for sure
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  4. #29
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    Haven't read other comments, but did your device calculate checksum? If not you might have to solder the chip out and write it directly.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lfelunden Click here to enlarge
    Haven't read other comments, but did your device calculate checksum? If not you might have to solder the chip out and write it directly.
    I'd like to see that. The microcontroller used is in a BGA package. It would probably be much easy to just connect a JTAG programmer to the board by soldering wires in the right spots. Still though, you'd need the firmware to program it and this is not something in the SP-Daten.

    Realistically, when you write the DME, you are only writing a certain spot in the microcontroller's memory and you are not overwriting the boot loader. I imagine it would be difficult to render a DME completely bricked with the BB flash app to the point you have to hook up a JTAG programmer to it. WinKFP should be able to recover the DME after a failed BB flash in almost all circumstances I would think.
    Eppur si muove.

  6. #31
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    You could always contact Wedge and get his input.
    I know he has done a bunch of flashes and is very knowledgeable on what is needed.
    He has also rescued some bricked ECUs before.
    Wedgeperformance@gmail.com
    He is not a pro shop, just shares his knowledge for the benefit of fellow enthusiasts.
    Most people here probably already know him.
    Personally I would not attempt my first flashing session without his guidance.
    We did some stuff on both my cars last week and it went flawlessly. I now have a bunch of cool new tools to play with as well. (I comped him for his time, seemed more than the fair thing to do for all the value I received.)

  7. #32
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lfelunden Click here to enlarge
    Haven't read other comments, but did your device calculate checksum? If not you might have to solder the chip out and write it directly.
    hey man I might have bricked my ECU, it wont communicate thru INPA cable & WinKFP (wedge was helping me). Currently being BDM programmed, if not recoverable what are my options ?

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 007_e350 Click here to enlarge
    hey man I might have bricked my ECU, it wont communicate thru INPA cable & WinKFP (wedge was helping me). Currently being BDM programmed, if not recoverable what are my options ?
    BDM should do the trick, otherwise you should go to a local tuner shop so they can solder out the chip and flash it that way - that's the LAST option (old fashion way)

  9. #34
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    Sigh, if you drain your battery to the point that a write cycle cannot happen, disconnect negative terminal from battery, wait 5 seconds, reconnect, connect 40-50A battery charger, try again. It's a hassle and annoyance to do this (I would venture to guess some users on this forum do not even know how to do this), so I can see why people are flipping the $#@! out.

    Personally this is why I simply bought a V2 AP because they idiot-proofed the process.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lfelunden Click here to enlarge
    otherwise you should go to a local tuner shop so they can solder out the chip and flash it that way
    Could you expand a bit on how this operation works?
    Eppur si muove.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Sigh, if you drain your battery to the point that a write cycle cannot happen, disconnect negative terminal from battery, wait 5 seconds, reconnect, connect 40-50A battery charger, try again. It's a hassle and annoyance to do this (I would venture to guess some users on this forum do not even know how to do this), so I can see why people are flipping the $#@! out.

    Personally this is why I simply bought a V2 AP because they idiot-proofed the process.
    This. My car prefers to write in recovery mode. In fact for like 9/10 flashes I have to let the first fail then unplug and write in recovery, then all is fine. 2007 cars are little $#@!es about flashing compared to the DCAN newer cars, but it is what it is. Works every time. The tables we are accessing should in no way, shape or form truly brick an ECU. The bootloader isn't being modified, nothing like that. Just the portion with the tune. If it messes up, get out into recovery mode by forcing a write and unplugging the cable if you have to, then unplug the battery and go from there. There's no reason for all this, just need to try something different. Nothing is bricked.

    INPA on the other hand, if you don't know what you're doing there, you can really mess things up with that.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    Could you expand a bit on how this operation works?
    I don't know how BMW staff in the US are, but where I live, they would help me out.



    They remove the chip (this is the one you flash) and flash it directly. If THIS doesn't work, the ECU can be locked and has its safety feature turned on. If you go to a tuner who has been doing remaps for quite a while, they should have the machine if not they would explain what I mean. I can't find someone who has done it on a MSD80, but the clip shows an ECU from a BMW e46 M3.

  13. #38
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    A lot has changed in electronics between the time the E46 was developed and when the E90 was developed. As I said in post 30 above, the Infineon microcontroller inside the MSD80 is in a BGA package. It has no leads, only tiny pads on its underside which have small balls of solder applied to them. The entire chip and board must be heated to remove and install them. This process usually involves using X-ray equipment after soldering is complete to check the integrity of the connections as a standard part of the procedure when soldering a BGA package this large. The equipment to successfully solder BGA packages of this many pins is specialized (expensive). You are not going to find a local tuner with this equipment. It's a bit more involved than simply using a cheap hot air gun to remove a leaded package in the MSD80.

    Click here to enlarge
    Notice the lack of leads this package has. They are all under the chip.

    However, if a MSD80 DME was so fubar it was unrecoverable by normal means (WinKFP or other BMW tools) there is still opportunity to recover it using a JTAG programmer. The trick would be identifying the proper pins for JTAG programming on the PCB itself. This would probably involve removing the chip and tracing the test points on the board back to the proper pads for the chip. This would most likely be a destructive process because getting the chip back on the board (if you haven't overheated it in the removal process) is tricky as I stated above.

    Even if you did identify the right pins, you would still need the JTAG programmer (probably a couple thousand dollars), a PC application to interface with the programmer (possibly even more expensive), and a file to program to the chip.

    In reality, it is pretty unlikely for the BB Flash utility to render the chip completely inoperable. The BB Flash program talks to a bootloader on the chip. The bootoloader is a program running on the chip which is responsible for programming the chip, and running the program on the chip. The BB Flash utility does not alter the bootloader, so it should remain accessible even if the flashing process fails.

    However, if something weird happens, like an under-voltage event, all bets are off. Hopefully the bootloader would catch the under-voltage even and cease programming before something bad happened, but when you run a chip at the hairy edge of it's minimum voltage requirements, very strange things can happen.

    The moral of the story is always, always, ALWAYS! use a battery charger or power supply when programming your DME. I cannot stress enough how important this is.
    Eppur si muove.

  14. #39
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    I would go with the Jtag, he said he has done BDM and still it won't work.

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    Okay, looks like I'm in the failed moron group too.

    I had the cable disconnect in the middle of the flash. The BB program crashed on my POS netbook right after. Typical, would not start up, I-drive states transmission failure.

    I can read the modules through the BT tool program. BB program can not ID DME, or give me any option to write anymore.

    Next step is to find a INPA cable and try to winKFP it?

    Maybe one of us morons who fixes it like this should post something on how to save our ass from a mistake. Any and all help is appreciated, even if it may have been stated once already, getting directly pointed in the right direction would help immensely.

    Running a 08 E90.

  16. #41
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    It doesn't show engine information in the BT software, but can access DSC and other modules.

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dan_S Click here to enlarge
    It has the original battery, being fairly new, and I was watching the voltage all the time and didn't see it drop lower than 12.43!

    Terry, do you know what problems can come about from what is mentioned about when it doesn't display a voltage reading, as in my case?

    I'll try re-writing with the BMS software as I didn't know this one existed! Hopefully that will work, but i'm thinking that possibly there's a problem with communicating with my ECU in particular!
    Just to dbl check, did you use a good charger when doing this?

    there is some windows usb powersave features you need to disable if using a newer laptop, or try an other laptop.
    Click here to enlarge
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  18. #43
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    Tried again this morning, looks like I am not getting any communication with the dme through either program. I read somewhere last night that failed flash can over write the entire chip. Is there a way for me to force communication or writing with the bt cable or do I need something more intrusive?

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think.
    Dorothy Parker said that.

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    Damn man, sorry to hear. Cobb is awesome and worth it IMO. Good luck.

  21. #46
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    I just wanted to update this.

    I don't really know what I did. I plugged the inpa cable in, it saw the dme without an issue. For the heck of it I decided to try my bt cable. Read it with no issue. I flashed it back to stock and had no issues. Good luck was on my side.

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    Need help, mine failed mid-write to the ECU. It is an '08. How do I force a write? BB flash can't ID it either.

  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by wakeboarderd Click here to enlarge
    Need help, mine failed mid-write to the ECU. It is an '08. How do I force a write? BB flash can't ID it either.
    Somebody help this gentleman do a forced write.

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  24. #49
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    When you click "write ECU" you choose the file and then there's a tab at the top or an advanced options button or something (don't remember exactly) with an option to force write. Might need to unplug the battery for a few minutes first, and you might have to do a normal write afterwards if the force fails/doesn't work. Force write is a good way of forcing the computer out of a state where it doesn't want to listen to you so you can try again at worst case. Used to come in handy on my K-Line often.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    When you click "write ECU" you choose the file and then there's a tab at the top or an advanced options button or something (don't remember exactly) with an option to force write. Might need to unplug the battery for a few minutes first, and you might have to do a normal write afterwards if the force fails/doesn't work. Force write is a good way of forcing the computer out of a state where it doesn't want to listen to you so you can try again at worst case. Used to come in handy on my K-Line often.
    I assume this works when my bimmerboost flash says it can't connect to the control module? Annoying as the first flash I did awhile back worked perfectly.

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