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    twin Garrett GT2554..

    what is the expected power from twin gt25 on n54

    on pump gas?
    pump and meth?
    max turbo power?

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    Dual Ball Bearing GT25R Turbo assembly with internal wastegate assembly. .64ar turbine with 5 bolt exit. Very very Good response turbo for 4 Cyl applications. This turbo has a flow capacity of about 240HP.
    so twins 240 X2= 480hp

    stick to stock?
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    25Rs are the entry VTT S3 option, so I'd say expect numbers just above Stage 2 (high 400s on Pump/Low 500s on Race). IMO, spend the extra $260 and get the 28RS or 2871Rs, you'll prob be ~580 WHP on pump and sold mid 600s on 109/E85
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammy_0559 Click here to enlarge
    so twins 240 X2= 480hp

    stick to stock?
    they should do more than rb, with 54mm compressor wheel

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    well, when RB's have made 550whp... it'd have to be high 500's/low 600's reliably.
    boop

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    Yea wow, meant to type mid/high-500s/low 600s on for the 25Rs (maybe 650ish on an E85/Kill Tune). Wouldn't expect 700s since the Vargas setup was using VTX63Rs and put down 690 on 91/Pump & 725 on Race.

    Stand by my previous statement tho, spend the extra $260, get the 28RS or 28s and run a ~650 Pump Map & ~700 Kill Tune. You'd also get quicker spool & a larger power band.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    well, when RB's have made 550whp... it'd have to be high 500's/low 600's reliably.
    RBs/other hybrids will never see 550whp in a streetable fashion. In fact, they'll never see 550whp and live to tell about it. If someone is looking for 550whp then twin GT25s are a good setup.

    OP, you're obviously interested in an aftermarket/more powerful setup but you need to decide what your goals are first and go from there.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    RBs/other hybrids will never see 550whp in a streetable fashion. In fact, they'll never see 550whp and live to tell about it. If someone is looking for 550whp then twin GT25s are a good setup.

    OP, you're obviously interested in an aftermarket/more powerful setup but you need to decide what your goals are first and go from there.
    there's been a few dynos at 550ish recently, not saying it'll make that forever haha and dzenno's (and with advances in tuning, his would be more now probably)

    but yeah, say 500-550 on RB's, 550-600 or a tad above reliably on the GT25's?
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    there's been a few dynos at 550ish recently, not saying it'll make that forever haha and dzenno's (and with advances in tuning, his would be more now probably)

    but yeah, say 500-550 on RB's, 550-600 or a tad above reliably on the GT25's?
    how much boost for rb's to hit 550?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135idct Click here to enlarge
    how much boost for rb's to hit 550?
    22-23psi?

    not sure off the top of my head... 'too much', and it's got like low-mid 4xx by redline lol.
    boop

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    Do not expect to see much above 550 WHP with the 25R's but expect to see it for years with no issues. Try running any stock frame upgrade to 550, you are looking less than a month before they are gone, maybe even a week depending on how often you are running them there. The biggest issue and problems with stock frames and going for big power is reliability. We offer this option for someone who isn't concerned with huge numbers, does not want a lot of spool time, and wants to do this reliably.

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    I am looking at going with 2860RS 62 trim. In trim form you can run 500wp easily on the center eff. island. The 25 and 28 are closer to 400-450 respectively. As Vargas points out you can run them at higher PRs but at the cost of relibility. The turbine map slope difference of the RS is negligable IMHO. Physical fitment is questionable though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    there's been a few dynos at 550ish recently, not saying it'll make that forever haha and dzenno's (and with advances in tuning, his would be more now probably)

    but yeah, say 500-550 on RB's, 550-600 or a tad above reliably on the GT25's?
    Terry's 550whp RB dyno posted up a few weeks ago was... odd. 19psi peak and ~11 degrees of ignition advance has been the standard RB/hybrid tuning strategy for a while now and that has never been anywhere close to 550whp. Dynos of RB cars running the same tune usually put down ~500 +/- 15whp. Dzenno's 550whp RB tune looks NOTHING like the tune that car was running and was on a level of aggression I have not seen in any other N54 log.

    Stock frame turbos are not doing north of 500whp for long without reliability concerns. This is something that people need to start accepting. If you want big power and, more importantly, reliability you need to ditch the stockers completely.
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    Comparing different dynos is dangerous...if it seems to good to be true it usually is. I agree, the stock hybrid frames have their place and limit. Go for a single or vtt stg3 TT if you want more than 500whp and some reliability.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    Terry's 550whp RB dyno posted up a few weeks ago was... odd. 19psi peak and ~11 degrees of ignition advance has been the standard RB/hybrid tuning strategy for a while now and that has never been anywhere close to 550whp. Dynos of RB cars running the same tune usually put down ~500 +/- 15whp. Dzenno's 550whp RB tune looks NOTHING like the tune that car was running and was on a level of aggression I have not seen in any other N54 log.

    Stock frame turbos are not doing north of 500whp for long without reliability concerns. This is something that people need to start accepting. If you want big power and, more importantly, reliability you need to ditch the stockers completely.
    +1, that dyno graph does not match that log at all. You are not getting 550 out of stock frames with that tune or boost. I am glad people are starting to get the harder you push these things the less time they will last. We are seeing almost 250K shaft speeds, most Garrett turbos are at about 160K at full boost. That alone will kill turbos quickly, not too mention we are seeing 3:1 BP near redline with them turned up.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Do not expect to see much above 550 WHP with the 25R's but expect to see it for years with no issues. Try running any stock frame upgrade to 550, you are looking less than a month before they are gone, maybe even a week depending on how often you are running them there. The biggest issue and problems with stock frames and going for big power is reliability. We offer this option for someone who isn't concerned with huge numbers, does not want a lot of spool time, and wants to do this reliably.
    i hope u post dyno sheets for gt25,28 and the big one 67mm with pump gas
    to compare the spool of each turbo.

    it would be a great idea to post dyno sheets in ur website for each turbo for MT&AT, it would make
    it easier to decide which one to buy.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    +1, that dyno graph does not match that log at all. You are not getting 550 out of stock frames with that tune or boost. I am glad people are starting to get the harder you push these things the less time they will last. We are seeing almost 250K shaft speeds, most Garrett turbos are at about 160K at full boost. That alone will kill turbos quickly, not too mention we are seeing 3:1 BP near redline with them turned up.
    Sorry for my n00b question but what does 3:1 BP mean?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Sorry for my n00b question but what does 3:1 BP mean?
    Back pressure is 3 x boost. 20 psi boost would be 60 psi back pressure. 1:1 is super efficient, 2:1 is pretty normal, 3:1 is very bad. This is all a product of very small AR turbine housings and pushing the crap out of them to hold boost at redline. The exhaust can't get out fast enough and it just backs up, imagine you are turning on the facet, if you turn it on halfway the water is draining out just as fast as its coming in 1:1, you turn it up 3/4 now the sink is filling up twice as fast as the drain can remove the water 2:1, you turn it on full blast the water is filling up 3 times as fast as it can drain and pretty soon it overflows 3:1, solution? Make the drain bigger now the water can get it as fast as its coming in, the "drain" ie turbine housing is so small the exhaust starts backing up in there, this is not good, OR don't turn the water up so high so it can drain, ie try to get every last WHP out of them pushing boost until the exhaust is backed up. Pretty basic description but you get the picture.
    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 11-04-2013 at 01:24 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Back pressure is 3 x boost. 20 psi boost would be 60 psi back pressure. 1:1 is super efficient, 2:1 is pretty normal, 3:1 is very bad. This is all a product of very small AR turbine housings and pushing the crap out of them to hold boost at redline. The exhaust can't get out fast enough and it just backs up, imagine you are turning on the facet, if you turn it on halfway the water is draining out just as fast as its coming in 1:1, you turn it up 3/4 now the sink is filling up twice as fast as the drain can remove the water 2:1, you turn it on full blast the water is filling up 3 times as fast as it can drain and pretty soon it overflows 3:1, solution? Make the drain bigger now the water can get it as fast as its coming in, the "drain" ie turbine housing is so small the exhaust starts backing up in there, this is not good, OR don't turn the water up so high so it can drain, ie try to get every last WHP out of them pushing boost until the exhaust is backed up. Pretty basic description but you get the picture.
    Ok, I figured it had something to do with that, makes complete sense, I love simple descriptions. Thanks
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    If you're going to pay 4k worth in just turbos, go with ones that leave room for more power. Might as well just spend 3k and have the same hp as a full kit IE Vargas stage 2 or RB turbos.
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    @VargasTurboTech is there a correlation between increased back pressure and increased EGT?
    Eppur si muove.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    @VargasTurboTech is there a correlation between increased back pressure and increased EGT?
    As back pressure builds it up does increase heat yes, all that exhaust cant get out so it does build up EGT much more quickly up top. We have seen anything too nuts, I think we have seen around 1650-1700 which isn't ideal but its not deadly. I need to go back and look.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    If you're going to pay 4k worth in just turbos, go with ones that leave room for more power. Might as well just spend 3k and have the same hp as a full kit IE Vargas stage 2 or RB turbos.

    yes and no.. there are some people that dont care about power...
    thats crazy green bmw on here is building his entire motor and running stage 1 vargas turbos i think or something very similar ...

    some people like to say that they have XYZ upgrade and dont care about power bc they want longevity... longevity that they would still have with bigger turbos as well but some people just dont get it lol
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    Well sure, but all else equal, time-to-torque will favor the smaller turbo. Everyone talks about big turbos and how great they are, but the near instant spool of some little buggers has a definite appeal as well. You really want the smallest turbo that will meet your power needs and leave enough breathing room on the table to not be over stressed. Guessing on acceptable spool IMO leads towards a car that pulls like a train on the highway but is boring around town. Honeywell is fooling around with axial turbines (instead of radial) that should decrease time to torque significantly. It'll be a while before that gets to the N54 (if ever, lol).

    For those that are interested in the tech: http://turbo.honeywell.com/our-techn...turbochargers/

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SCGT Click here to enlarge
    Well sure, but all else equal, time-to-torque will favor the smaller turbo. Everyone talks about big turbos and how great they are, but the near instant spool of some little buggers has a definite appeal as well. You really want the smallest turbo that will meet your power needs and leave enough breathing room on the table to not be over stressed. Guessing on acceptable spool IMO leads towards a car that pulls like a train on the highway but is boring around town. Honeywell is fooling around with axial turbines (instead of radial) that should decrease time to torque significantly. It'll be a while before that gets to the N54 (if ever, lol).

    For those that are interested in the tech: http://turbo.honeywell.com/our-techn...turbochargers/
    The 2554's are not going to spool as fast as they think they are either, those 64 housings are still pretty big, as far as axial turbines, its not new tech its actually very old tech. We see it in a about 50% of the industrial turbos we service, I have always wanted to see it on the automotive industry and it looks like Honeywell is making it happen, that is going to change things up quite a bit.

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