Close

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 125
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    18
    Rep Points
    12.3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No

    Fuel system idea

    My understanding the problem with the fuel system on the n54 is the hpfp can not keep the pressure up to the demand of the rail and injector? So if the rail had a enough pressure from the hpfp, the injectors will support more power?

    Coming from the diesel truck pulling 'scene' the newer common rail diesel pickups (which from my limited knowlege of the n54; the fuel systems are roughly the same) have a similar issue when the hpfp can't keep up with the injectors, rail pressure drops and the power is gone. The solution in the diesel world is to add a secondary hpfp which is belt driven of the crank to supply the rail with all the fuel it wants.

    My idea would be to instead of adding a completely separate port fi system, would adding a second belt driven hpfp into the stock system to keep up with the injector demand?

    Am I on to something or completely off? Lol

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,804
    Rep Points
    31,798.7
    Mentioned
    2085 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    318


    Yes Reputation No
    I think people have tried secondary inline pumps haven't they?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,063
    Rep Points
    9,036.8
    Mentioned
    637 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    91


    Yes Reputation No
    A second high pressure pump would solve the issue. Packaging is the issue in the case of the n54.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,177
    Rep Points
    801.6
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    9


    Yes Reputation No
    You can always change the gear ratio on the pump as another option besides gutting it and rebuilding it with larger components.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    2,729
    Rep Points
    2,484.0
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    25


    Yes Reputation No
    The gear has already been discussed. Apparently futile, however I'd like to hear the thoughts on a secondary pump. I think someone said this is possible, but messy and not recommended.
    Click here to enlarge
    Join the largest N5X Enthusiasts Group! 1200+ Members Strong!
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/n5xenthusiasts/

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,177
    Rep Points
    801.6
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    9


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    The gear has already been discussed. Apparently futile, however I'd like to hear the thoughts on a secondary pump. I think someone said this is possible, but messy and not recommended.
    Whys that?

    Getting more flow through a second pump is a no brainer. Its also the most involved modification though. It would probably be easier to just get a pump from a higher HP car and make an adapter bracket then it would be to split into two pumps.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    18
    Rep Points
    12.3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Whys that?

    Getting more flow through a second pump is a no brainer. Its also the most involved modification though. It would probably be easier to just get a pump from a higher HP car and make an adapter bracket then it would be to split into two pumps.
    What kind of pump would you recommend? 5-600whp on a stock pump running e85 is pretty impressive to me

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,925
    Rep Points
    1,372.6
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think people have tried secondary inline pumps haven't they?
    No, they haven't.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,925
    Rep Points
    1,372.6
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Pork198 Click here to enlarge
    My understanding the problem with the fuel system on the n54 is the hpfp can not keep the pressure up to the demand of the rail and injector? So if the rail had a enough pressure from the hpfp, the injectors will support more power?

    Coming from the diesel truck pulling 'scene' the newer common rail diesel pickups (which from my limited knowlege of the n54; the fuel systems are roughly the same) have a similar issue when the hpfp can't keep up with the injectors, rail pressure drops and the power is gone. The solution in the diesel world is to add a secondary hpfp which is belt driven of the crank to supply the rail with all the fuel it wants.

    My idea would be to instead of adding a completely separate port fi system, would adding a second belt driven hpfp into the stock system to keep up with the injector demand?

    Am I on to something or completely off? Lol
    Do you have a pump in mind that you could fit in there?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    18
    Rep Points
    12.3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Do you have a pump in mind that you could fit in there?
    I haven't gotten that far into researching pumps yet as I was unsure that it would work. I'm assuming another stock pump would do the trick. If it will fit...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    2,942
    Rep Points
    2,873.1
    Mentioned
    78 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    29


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think people have tried secondary inline pumps haven't they?
    Yes, but on the Low pressure side. To my knowledge nothing has been attempted on the high pressure side.
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

    Click here to enlarge

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    2,931
    Rep Points
    921.6
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    10


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think people have tried secondary inline pumps haven't they?
    What was done to the fuel system for your car? Why couldn't we take whatever you did and swap it over?
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

    Click here to enlarge

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Harrisburg
    Posts
    1,281
    Rep Points
    1,527.3
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    16


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    What was done to the fuel system for your car? Why couldn't we take whatever you did and swap it over?
    Because then everyone would have to do an S65 swap to fix their fueling issues.
    Eppur si muove.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,804
    Rep Points
    31,798.7
    Mentioned
    2085 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    318


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    No, they haven't.
    Then they replace the pump with a different inline pump? Wasn't somebody dropping a pump in? Am I crazy?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,804
    Rep Points
    31,798.7
    Mentioned
    2085 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    318


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Yes, but on the Low pressure side. To my knowledge nothing has been attempted on the high pressure side.
    Ok good I thought I was going nuts.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    118,804
    Rep Points
    31,798.7
    Mentioned
    2085 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    318


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    What was done to the fuel system for your car? Why couldn't we take whatever you did and swap it over?
    Because my car's fuel system was built with high performance in mind to begin with (hah!). It doesn't apply to a completely different fuel injection setup.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tallahassee
    Posts
    1,483
    Rep Points
    17.1
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    What was done to the fuel system for your car? Why couldn't we take whatever you did and swap it over?
    The S65 is port injection.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Clarksville, TN
    Posts
    3,868
    Rep Points
    2,450.1
    Mentioned
    44 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    25


    Yes Reputation No
    N54=Direct Injection

    S65=Port Injection

    S65 doesn't have an HPFP
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Jersey City
    Posts
    3,857
    Rep Points
    3,642.6
    Mentioned
    74 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    37


    Yes Reputation No
    Yup, they are completely different animals. Direct injection is a challenge at this point. It will need a solution because the s55 will most likely be DI
    Click here to enlarge
    ESS 6XX kit

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    18
    Rep Points
    12.3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Yes Reputation No
    Anyone have hpfp laying around the can pull rough dimensions off of?

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    2,931
    Rep Points
    921.6
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    10


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    The S65 is port injection.
    lol...yes brain fart...
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

    Click here to enlarge

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Harrisburg
    Posts
    1,281
    Rep Points
    1,527.3
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    16


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Yup, they are completely different animals. Direct injection is a challenge at this point. It will need a solution because the s55 will most likely be DI
    I'm sure the S55 was designed such that the HPFP can meet the demands of the stock tuning, and probably a good amount beyond that as well, just as the N54 was designed to do. People are getting far beyond stock numbers on pump gas and stock turbos. When modifying turbos or switching the E85, that is where the problems start to crop up. As an OEM, BMW can't be expected to over design the fuel system capacity by 300%.

    People are pushing far more torque than the fuel system was ever designed to handle. This will require after market solutions just like any other area of performance. Car technology is changing rapidly to keep up with the ever increasing volatility surrounding the supply of oil and more stringent efficiency requirements. The aftermarket just needs to keep up.

    The N54 is not a big enough platform to get the big name players with millions in R&D budgets to throw down and design a better fuel system to support 1000whp.

    The S55 is, however, and I'm sure solutions will become available once power goals start to reach far beyond stock levels with that engine.

    Whether or not these solutions will be able to be applied to the N54 is yet to be seen. If I was going for big power I would be looking at auxiliary fueling through sequential port injection for situations where the stock fuel system can't keep up.

    Reading the cam and crank sensors, and designing a system to sequentially fire six auxiliary injectors is not something that is out of the reach of currently available technology, someone just has to do it. Modifications like this are usually far outside the scope of what the average do-it-yourselfers can do, however, and a business would not take on such a project unless they knew it was going to be lucrative.
    Eppur si muove.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Hayward, CA
    Posts
    7,916
    Rep Points
    3,953.7
    Mentioned
    321 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Pork198 Click here to enlarge
    My understanding the problem with the fuel system on the n54 is the hpfp can not keep the pressure up to the demand of the rail and injector? So if the rail had a enough pressure from the hpfp, the injectors will support more power?

    Coming from the diesel truck pulling 'scene' the newer common rail diesel pickups (which from my limited knowlege of the n54; the fuel systems are roughly the same) have a similar issue when the hpfp can't keep up with the injectors, rail pressure drops and the power is gone. The solution in the diesel world is to add a secondary hpfp which is belt driven of the crank to supply the rail with all the fuel it wants.

    My idea would be to instead of adding a completely separate port fi system, would adding a second belt driven hpfp into the stock system to keep up with the injector demand?

    Am I on to something or completely off? Lol
    Not a new idea was thought of a while ago, actually had one mocked up at my fabricators shop for a while, its a packaging issue plain and simple. It can be done, I do not have the time to attack it right now.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Roanoke VA
    Posts
    1,632
    Rep Points
    2,248.3
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    23


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    As much as I didn't like the idea of stacking PI on top it's looking more and more like the best solution to this problem right now...
    Click here to enlarge
    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Doylestown,PA
    Posts
    283
    Rep Points
    913.1
    Mentioned
    67 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I've done a considerable amount of research on all the feasible options on this, talked with my Bosch Motorsport supplier in great detail and here's what it boils down to: Are there higher output hpfp and custom DI injectors available? Sure, as long as you have a mountain of cash your willing to burn.(check out Bosch Motorsport's website for a chuckle) Realistically, No one with an N54 is gonna drop the irresponsible amount of cash necessary to rework the DI setup. Adding another hpfp or overdriving the oem unit is an expensive experiment in futility. Cost is not equivalent to gains, not to mention that one risks the possibility of non-compatibility issues. I approached the issue with the goal of trying to find a solution that meets current and future hp goals/fuel system demand and doesn't cost over $10k to do.
    I was involved in the Toyota Supra world (well, I still am) in the late 90's when the aftermarket was developing solutions to upgrading that platform, the N54 scene is following that same sort of slow progression to having solutions-but the N54 injection and control system makes the 2J stuff look like it crawled out of a cave. The DME isn't anywhere near as friendly to interface aftermarket standalone systems with, that can be seen with the proEFI attempts at running this system thus far. Things are happening to address the issue, the solutions are starting to materialize. It just takes a little patience and experimentation. It's a tall order for the aftermarket to fulfill, especially in a relatively dead economy...But there are currently some of us who are working on a realistic and reasonably priced solution to fueling....

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •