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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    With the fuel system I have in place now I am positive I could just Y the feed before the regulator and have plenty of fuel for both HPFP and secondary injectors. Still not gonna go this route unless its absolutely last resort.
    Your upgraded pump seems to do great where the larger turbo's need it. I think this setup would be best for E85 on your stage 2 for the low/midrange especially, removing any need for meth. I know I don't like meth on a daily driver car personally so I've never ran it (although it's awesome for track cars). I also think that for the guys building engines, it may be necessary for big big numbers, especially if people start finding ways to wind the motor out higher than 7200 rpm safely, which would be very useful for the larger fans.

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    Your upgraded pump seems to do great where the larger turbo's need it. I think this setup would be best for E85 on your stage 2 for the low/midrange especially, removing any need for meth. I know I don't like meth on a daily driver car personally so I've never ran it (although it's awesome for track cars). I also think that for the guys building engines, it may be necessary for big big numbers, especially if people start finding ways to wind the motor out higher than 7200 rpm safely, which would be very useful for the larger fans.
    I meant my low pressure side system. I upgraded everything in anticipation for big numbers down the road. I agree the HPFP even slightly upgraded does not like that big tq bump down low, it just cant keep up.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    @LostMarine, your cable has been 'revelatory' thank you for lending it Click here to enlarge

    no problem, i like to benefit the community any way I can Click here to enlarge

  4. #54
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    Quick Update:
    7th nozzle in the CP added to provide IAT suppression.
    ECU Code to soften IAT compensation logic to compensate for port injection.

    Boost at 17.5, no hint of knock, 15 degrees of timing and no correction. We're going to try to max this out over the next few days for this specific setup to see what exactly we can get out of it.

    http://datazap.me/u/uniter/defiv-fab...ce-added?1-5-6
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    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

  5. #55
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    That's sick man. My timing has looked like $#@! lately. Get that beast on a dyno!
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  6. #56
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    15 degrees up top mmmm
    E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Motiv Port Fuel/BMR 3.5" Exhaust/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/ST Coilovers/M3 FCA + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/AA Strutbrace/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
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  7. #57
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    Yeah it feels pretty good. Needs more boost and more advance to truly be excellent.
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

  8. #58
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    This is a stock turbo car right? Too lazy to go back to the first page hah. How about 16 degrees of advance and 18.5PSI midrange, I don't think you want to get much more aggressive with the taper but that log doesn't have wgdc.

    But that would be a great kill tune.


    Edit: Maxing it out? 20PSI.
    E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Motiv Port Fuel/BMR 3.5" Exhaust/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/ST Coilovers/M3 FCA + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/AA Strutbrace/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
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  9. #59
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    Stock turbos. This car is always in "kill mode."
    What 'cede channel is good for WGDC?
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

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    Is 15 degrees MBT??? I thought you didn't ant to go much past 14 not for fueling reasons, just because there isn't more power there?

    Would love to see preturbo meth into the eye of the turbo, maybe using a spacer. I think all the other options condense on the walls.

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    @rudypoochris
    MBT isn't something we'd see until it was strapped onto a dyno. Can you provide a source(s) on that?
    I think we're going to try to clean up the advance curve to hit 15 Deg earlier and add in more boost before we start shooting for 16. But you'll have to ask Rick for his strategy, I'm just the trigger-man.

    If any additional meth is going in it'll be sizing up to 110CC nozzles in the ports from 90cc. Direct port = no wasted methanol.
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    @rudypoochris
    MBT isn't something we'd see until it was strapped onto a dyno. Can you provide a source(s) on that?
    I think we're going to try to clean up the advance curve to hit 15 Deg earlier and add in more boost before we start shooting for 16. But you'll have to ask Rick for his strategy, I'm just the trigger-man.

    If any additional meth is going in it'll be sizing up to 110CC nozzles in the ports from 90cc. Direct port = no wasted methanol.
    Would be worth asking Terry or someone else. I am just going off what I thought I read once upon a time and what I think best timing would be.

  13. #63
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    I wouldn't rely on Cyl1 only for monitoring timing advance.

  14. #64
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    @uniter, any idea what is causing that lean spike post shift? I keep seeing this in Procede logs... @rudypoochris, you can't just throw out a blanket statement like 14* degrees advance is the limit on making power. Its going to be specific to each setup, octane, fuel type, load etc.
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  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    @uniter, any idea what is causing that lean spike post shift? I keep seeing this in Procede logs... @rudypoochris, you can't just throw out a blanket statement like 14* degrees advance is the limit on making power. Its going to be specific to each setup, octane, fuel type, load etc.
    So there's a quarter second of lean right at onset of boost. All AFR targeting is being done by the ECU with no involvement from the procede. Maybe it's because I'm full lift shifting it.
    I'll keep an eye on it to see if it can be dialed out with more aggressive fueling in lower RPMs.
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  16. #66
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    @uniter, does meth continue to spray during the shift? I typically go rich post shift for a few seconds as the AFR stabilizes. Your lean spike is not bad, i've seen about 3 other procede logs were the lean spike was sustained WELL into the next gear, like halfway through the gear, kinda scary.
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    Is your lean-spool table disabled? I tend to see the lean spike with piggies only, manipulating signals back to the DME where the stock map still has that table enabled. That's what I always attributed it to, anyway.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    So there's a quarter second of lean right at onset of boost. All AFR targeting is being done by the ECU with no involvement from the procede. Maybe it's because I'm full lift shifting it.
    I'll keep an eye on it to see if it can be dialed out with more aggressive fueling in lower RPMs.
    What are you using on the back end for fueling/advance? OFT?
    Would think you could just add in a bit more fuel post shift to quiet down the lean condition. You have plenty available, it’s not like you are tight on trim up top. It’s odd to see a flash controlled car (on the fueling side) go lean like that. Like others have said though, it’s pretty brief. I’ve seen PROcede and JB logs that are leannnn all the way through the gear. I think you’re fine, probably something to continue monitoring.
    E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Motiv Port Fuel/BMR 3.5" Exhaust/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/ST Coilovers/M3 FCA + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/AA Strutbrace/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    @uniter, any idea what is causing that lean spike post shift? I keep seeing this in Procede logs... @rudypoochris, you can't just throw out a blanket statement like 14* degrees advance is the limit on making power. Its going to be specific to each setup, octane, fuel type, load etc.
    Yeah, I understand that. The setups and fuels being used here have all been tried with the exception of where the meth is being injected. I would be surprised if throwing more timing past 14 degrees would get you much, but there's really only one way to find out....

  20. #70
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    Is your lean-spool table disabled? I tend to see the lean spike with piggies only, manipulating signals back to the DME where the stock map still has that table enabled. That's what I always attributed it to, anyway.
    OEM lean spool is inactive past 2600 rpm's. I honestly think the lean spike is based on the DME taking a few seconds to stabilize AFR's via fuel trims to meet require fuel mass. If the DME is not seeing real time true load, it cant accurately predict how much fuel mass is needed. Its going to inject what it *thinks* the fuel mass should be, see its lean, and spray additional fuel to meet AFR target.
    Last edited by lulz_m3; 11-13-2013 at 01:49 PM.
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  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    OEM lean spool is inactive past 2600 rpm's. I honestly think the lean spike is based on the DME taking a few seconds to stabilize AFR's via fuel trims to meet require fuel mass. If the DME is not seeing real time true load, it cant accurately predict how much fuel mass is needed. Its going to inject what it *thinks* the fuel mass should be, see its lean, and spray additional fuel to meet AFR target.
    Is the PROcede providing load signals for OP? Or is he relying on flash tuning to handle that, I had assumed the latter. If that’s the case, I’m a bit confused as to why the DME is taking so long (relatively speaking) to add in some trim. If it’s the piggy sending those signals, then I totally agree with your intuition.
    E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Motiv Port Fuel/BMR 3.5" Exhaust/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/ST Coilovers/M3 FCA + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/AA Strutbrace/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
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  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Is the PROcede providing load signals for OP? Or is he relying on flash tuning to handle that, I had assumed the latter. If that’s the case, I’m a bit confused as to why the DME is taking so long (relatively speaking) to add in some trim. If it’s the piggy sending those signals, then I totally agree with your intuition.
    I don't think he is relying heavily on the flash. Notice my AFR's post shift? I'm flash only and using NLS. http://datazap.me/u/lulzm3/meth-race...0?1-5-18-19-22
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  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    I don't think he is relying heavily on the flash. Notice my AFR's post shift? I'm flash only and using NLS. http://datazap.me/u/lulzm3/meth-race...0?1-5-18-19-22
    Hm. Interesting. Your log is a Cobb log too, ya? You can certainly see the DME adding in trim post-shift. Would love to know if OP is spraying meth during the shift.

    Here’s a multi-gear log from my 6AT recently, while a bit of fuel is being added in post-shift, it’s nowhere near as drastic, and I don’t see the same type of lean spike. Cobb also runs their E30 map too rich, but that’s another topic.

    http://datazap.me/u/135pats/e30?1-12-13-14-20

    I don’t mean to thread jack OP, just trying to think this through a bit.
    E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Motiv Port Fuel/BMR 3.5" Exhaust/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/ST Coilovers/M3 FCA + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/AA Strutbrace/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
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  24. #74
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    @lulz_m3 : Methanol spray DC follows RPM and Boost. Boost+RPM drops during shift, methanol sprays with boost.
    Logs show methanol flow @ full BEFORE peak boost. There is a slight increase of Procede 'open loop fueling' during this period.
    This is what my tuning is going to focus on.
    It's not very long in lean, but the DME is pulling out 2 degrees of timing post-shift. Which is annoying.

    @Tzu : I'd like to see more details around what you're referring to. Upsides / downsides / optimum values. Feel free to point me to reference threads Click here to enlarge
    P.S. I'd like to see more than one cyl's timing activity but I just don't have access to that. Keeping an eye on plugs. *shrug*

    @135pats : Fueling - this is controlled with the procede. + the procede backend flash.
    So Procede backend flash adds a bit of load and fuel on the flash side.


    The procede is still the 'boost controller' so it has to pro-actively provide for additional fueling.


    We may be able to address this with massaging fueling / load tables more. I don't think it should be a problem.
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  25. #75
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    The spike can be reduced by upping your load base in the flash and scalar if desired. You can see that the base is fairly low since you are still around 15% stft even with meth flowing. Get this closer to 0 or neg is ok too.

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