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  1. #101
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by curare Click here to enlarge
    I was answering your question Click here to enlarge
    The f30 was released in 2012. Therefore, neither cobb nor any other flash tuner will be tuning for these turbos at the moment. Terry is also focusing on e series not f series. Whats your problem dude?
    Just trying to make sense of your disconnected nonsensical posts. I'll stop and you can go back to your cave now.

  2. #102
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    I have heard through the grapevine. Terry is on his own forum, lying through his teeth, calling the upgrade Laggy, and that it made 409 WHP, with a maxed out gate. Well first off lets start with common sense, we have a Garrett GTX3076 CHRA, a lightening fast spooling turbo in native housings, now take that CHRA and put it in a tighter A/R twin Scroll housing. The words laggy do not even apply. I think he forgets I put around 250 miles on the car. Full boost was on you before you even knew it, if you check the logs below you can see its hitting full boost by right around 3000 RPM. These are stock turbo spool times, maybe slightly slower. As far as 409 WHP. Well duh, everyone knows if you bolt a bigger turbo on a car and run it on the same map, you will gain nothing or see a slight gain if the old turbo was already being maxed out. Jeff told me they were at 399 before. So they picked up 10 WHP with no tuning, not bad. At this point, Terry will lie about what he is doing to the car to try to make the upgrade look bad, so believing a turbo that is rated at 640 hp in native housings is maxed at 409 is just blatant lies, we increased the surface area on those wheels by almost 50% saying it made 10 more WHP and is maxed out, well again its blatant bs. Thats just the kind of snake he is. Its so obvious he is butt hurt beyond belief. Its also possible he is confusing the N55 with his Single turbo car (not the one he blew up, the other one) that he claimed was making full boost by 4200 on the street when we see its closer to 5 grand. Its funny I am not the only one who thinks its very fishy the number one knock off artist in the N54 community is all of sudden buying up turbo upgrades for his cars. Hmmm will we see chinese made knock off turbo upgrades ala his AR downpipe rip offs? I guess we shall see. But honestly people, take what he is spewing out of his mouth with a grain of salt. The last thing this upgrade is, is laggy, and trying to throw out a 10 WHP gain and claim its maxed is well, well its just plain idiotic.Click here to enlarge Here are a few logs to prove he is lying about the spool. Do not forget, this is a tuner, it would be very easy for him pop the gate open during spool, log it and claim its laggy, then it would also be very easy for him to say its maxed and doctor the logs. Anyone remember the 550 WHP RB car with a log that was so obviously not from that pull. Yeah we all do too. If you are nervous about the upgrade, just hold on and wait til we get one on a car with a real tune on it. Then Terry will back pedal, and make excuses for his bs. Threw some logs in a zip for fun. Check the spool on the maps HE provided, meaning I didn't touch them. If it was making full boost by 3K and all a sudden now its not. Well we know what happened don't we.
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    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 12-03-2013 at 10:59 PM.

  3. #103
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    Speaking from a purely neutral point of view, it sounds like the turbo does flow better but you're bottlenecked by the electronically controlled wastegate. If that's the case I am unsure what can actually be done to push these bad boys harder.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Speaking from a purely neutral point of view, it sounds like the turbo does flow better but you're bottlenecked by the electronically controlled wastegate. If that's the case I am unsure what can actually be done to push these bad boys harder.
    These have vacuum gates just like the N54. They didn't go to electronic gates until the N20, I haven't seen any N55's with them. They have an Electric DV stock, but we ditch that and put a forge vacuum actuated unit with a 20-25 psi spring, so that gets rid of that potential boost leak. Its possible the gate needs to be adjusted a little bit, I set them tighter than stock for that reason, but this is why you agree to install on a test car with a person you are sure isn't going to go rogue on you. Then you are stuck with him spreading false rumors, for no other reason other than to bash. The way I see it, he is claiming the car is laggy, the logs prove this is not the case, so how am I to believe anything else he is saying?

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    Everyone has their opinions. I think Terry is an honest guy and isn't doing anything like lying about opening the diverter valves or something, that's ridiculous. It's too much of a risk, if he was caught legitimately sabotaging something as important as this no customers would trust him with anything anymore, I definitely wouldn't. He'd lose more than $4,000... and honestly if he could get this tuned with the JB4 he would increase his own sales and reputation, regardless of his relationship with you.

    I think he's being a little melodramatic about everything though. Development cars have problems, what else is new. It sucks but it's a fact. The only thing I 100% know for sure is that there is a problem here. Whether it's a boost leak (most likely), DME related, turbo related or engine related I have no idea but there is a problem here. Sadly for you and the N55 crowd, I don't see any motivation on his part to figure it out in a timely manner.

    N54 lives another day on top!

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    Hes not really saying its laggy, and terry is very supportive of the bmw community. He wouldnt doctor results out of spite, he's not that kind of guy. What hes saying and what his logs are showing is that the turbos arent holding any more boost than stock. If you look at the dynos, the jb4 is targetting 20psi but the turbos dont hold more than 17 tapering to 15 at redline. This is pretty much what I can get stock with meth. This obviously should not be the case so something is going wrong and needs to be addressed, before any of these units are shipped to customers hopefully. This is a time for constructive input from both parties, not accusations and namecalling

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by curare Click here to enlarge
    Hes not really saying its laggy, and terry is very supportive of the bmw community. He wouldnt doctor results out of spite, he's not that kind of guy. What hes saying and what his logs are showing is that the turbos arent holding any more boost than stock. If you look at the dynos, the jb4 is targetting 20psi but the turbos dont hold more than 17 tapering to 15 at redline. This is pretty much what I can get stock with meth. This obviously should not be the case so something is going wrong and needs to be addressed, before any of these units are shipped to customers hopefully. This is a time for constructive input from both parties, not accusations and namecalling
    +1

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    Terry has asked you for help on his forum, and he has refrained from any ad hominem attacks.

    I think it's an honest request for help.

    Please help make upgraded N55 turbos happen, Tony.

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    @tony
    I think what you should do now is call Terry and talk to him. To be honest, you will loose a lot of customers if you don't. Just talk to him, find the failure and sell your kit to your customers - including me and my friends. We really want this upgrade and believe you are able to provide it. Working.

    Best wishes from Germany

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    First of all, Terry has my shop number, my email, my cell phone. If he wanted to get a hold of me, he could in 15 seconds. He has had no problem contacting me before. He personally emailed me calling our products a piece of junk etc. As far as V8baits assessment of Terry being an "honest" guy. I think we have vastly differing views on the word honest. This is a person who forged relationships with well known vendors AR being the main one that comes to mind, took their well made american products, shipped them to china, had them reproduced, and now sells them at a much lower price with his name on them. I never realized how bad it was until I had Terry send me a set of his DP's and I held them up next to a set of real AR's. Every weld placement, spacing, etc were identical. This is what you guys call honest? When we started building turbos for the N54 community, it would have been MUCH easier to just pretend to be a customer of RB, buy his turbos and knock them off. Instead we chose our own path and built our own products, including going through some of the exact same pitfalls and issues as he did when developing a product.

    Now we have Terry, he claims to be an advocate for the community claiming he has an issue with a turbo he bought, also agreeing to test it, what does he do, contact us? No, he starts posting flames on the forums, he doesn't want the issue solved people, he wants to trash talk and continue to be a giant baby. Look at his single turbo, he couldn't get it to make more than X boost, did he stamp his feet throw a tantrum and call PT turbos junk, or the FFTEC kit junk, of course not, he figured out what was wrong with the solenoid and kept moving forward. This turbo is capable of MUCH more boost than he is claiming, he is posting all this stuff in hopes of hurting our sales thats just the kind of person he is. Does anyone remember in a thread about a month ago, he called Dzenno out for "blowing up" a members turbos with a Cobb tune. The member had to actually come into the thread and call Terry out, basically saying, what are you talking about Terry, he didn't blow up my turbos. Now imagine if he didn't do that. That would be people who just plain didn't know any better who might be wary of tuning with PTF or Cobb in fear of having their turbos "blown up",exactly what Terry would have wanted as it would have drawn people away from the flash to the piggy. This is the kind of grey area people like Terry and Shiv work in, they might not always lie per say, or say something 100% false, but they will spin it exactly how they want it to try to cast just a doubt or a shadow over something, all the while trying to make themselves look like they are trying to help. No one be fooled here, Terry is here just like everyone else to MAKE MONEY. He has good customer service because he knows it helps him sell products. If you want the real scoop on Terry, start talking to vendors he has burned, you will be painted a much different picture.

    So bottom line of all this, the turbo is capable of well over 20 PSI, the turbine housing is very nicely sized, the CHRA itself, we all know whats that capable of, if he can't get the boost to hold and I say IF, because I do not trust the guy. If that is the case, its a problem either with the solenoid, or the actuator not being closed all the way or being pushed open, or a simple boost leak, or possibly, the DME has some fail safe in place where it is simply opening the DV if it sees too much boost etc. If I wanted to do some trouble shooting it wouldn't be hard, just unplug the DV, see what that does, pull the hose from the solenoid that goes to the actuator use a vacuum pump like a mighty vac and just put 20-30 inches on it and leave it under the hood and take the car for a test drive, if it makes unlimited boost, then you have an issue with the solenoid, or vacuum. These are identical troubleshooting methods for the N54 besides the electronic DV. Terry claims he knows how to troubleshoot these things, and in the past he has helped me a few issues, but after he held fast to his claims that a closed DV could cause any motor issue let alone a Vanos one, I started to have my doubts of what he knowledge truly is concerning turbocharged engines and their various functions. If he wants to drop me an email, I can offer these basic troubleshooting techniques to him and would be glad to help him get the car running as it should, if not and he truly thinks the turbo is a piece of junk, well he has the option of pulling it off and sending it back as well. I will gladly refund him what he paid. Ok its 4 am and I have to get back to working on the stage 2's that are going out this week. Cheers people
    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 12-04-2013 at 08:28 AM.

  11. #111
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    Im sorry this appears to be an irreconcilable situation Click here to enlarge regardless, I assume the turbos wont start shipping until someone else has had a chance at tuning and any possible issues with holding boost are addressed?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by curare Click here to enlarge
    Im sorry this appears to be an irreconcilable situation Click here to enlarge regardless, I assume the turbos wont start shipping until someone else has had a chance at tuning and any possible issues with holding boost are addressed?
    Reverse question: Do you REALLY want to buy a product which is literally un-tested, un-proven??

    I couldn't care less about this Terry/Tony war (geez, there's still something around called a "phone"). I just wish the best for N55 folks.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by curare Click here to enlarge
    Im sorry this appears to be an irreconcilable situation Click here to enlarge regardless, I assume the turbos wont start shipping until someone else has had a chance at tuning and any possible issues with holding boost are addressed?
    One guy who has an obvious agenda is saying there is a problem. He also posted the turbo is laggy, as I said I am not sure I believe a word he is saying. Say you put a set of stage 2's on an N54, you have a bad solenoid or a boost leak or a myriad of other reasons why it wont make the proper boost, does that mean you have a bad turbo? Of course not, there is no magic here. The exhaust goes through the housing and it spins the turbine, if the flapper is closed it makes boost and as much as it wants until that flapper is opened,either via vacuum, BP, etc. The theory is not changed for the N55, if it wont hold boost, its not the turbo, its one of the items that are supposed to work in conjuction with it. We are not going to ship every item with a turbo, if some things need to be changed on the car to make it work, then they have to be changed, that is just the basic definition of upgrading, when you change one thing, sometimes others need to be changed. We have addressed, every issue the turbo could possibly have, including the DV as it is part of the turbo, but the turbo will not include every piece of the upgrade puzzle to make 500 WHP. I have no doubt, the issue will be figured out, if there is one. When we first tested stage 3, we could barely get it to make over 15 psi AT ALL, no matter what we did, did we think for one second it was because the GTX2863's were maxed out at 15 psi? Of course not, we just dug deeper into the tuning until we got it. Terry has done minimal work on tuning the thing and is so quick to point fingers at the one mechanical part that isn't to blame again because he has an agenda. The issue if there is one will be solved, and sooner than later. As I said if he wants to prove he really is here to help, he can contact me and we can troubleshoot the car. If not he can send it back, we will get it on a vehicle using a tuner we can trust, or he can take it off and throw it in the trash, I honestly don't care.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    One guy who has an obvious agenda is saying there is a problem. He also posted the turbo is laggy, as I said I am not sure I believe a word he is saying. Say you put a set of stage 2's on an N54, you have a bad solenoid or a boost leak or a myriad of other reasons why it wont make the proper boost, does that mean you have a bad turbo? Of course not, there is no magic here. The exhaust goes through the housing and it spins the turbine, if the flapper is closed it makes boost and as much as it wants until that flapper is opened,either via vacuum, BP, etc. The theory is not changed for the N55, if it wont hold boost, its not the turbo, its one of the items that are supposed to work in conjuction with it. We are not going to ship every item with a turbo, if some things need to be changed on the car to make it work, then they have to be changed, that is just the basic definition of upgrading, when you change one thing, sometimes others need to be changed. We have addressed, every issue the turbo could possibly have, including the DV as it is part of the turbo, but the turbo will not include every piece of the upgrade puzzle to make 500 WHP. I have no doubt, the issue will be figured out, if there is one. When we first tested stage 3, we could barely get it to make over 15 psi AT ALL, no matter what we did, did we think for one second it was because the GTX2863's were maxed out at 15 psi? Of course not, we just dug deeper into the tuning until we got it. Terry has done minimal work on tuning the thing and is so quick to point fingers at the one mechanical part that isn't to blame again because he has an agenda. The issue if there is one will be solved, and sooner than later. As I said if he wants to prove he really is here to help, he can contact me and we can troubleshoot the car. If not he can send it back, we will get it on a vehicle using a tuner we can trust, or he can take it off and throw it in the trash, I honestly don't care.
    im not trying to say terry is right and the turbos are bad or anything like that. Im sure with time this thing will make the boost/power we so desperately want, as you say. What I am saying is I think you should refrain from sending out the upgrades until the kinks have been worked out. If other parts need upgrading to make too to make it work, shouldnt that be sorted on a test car first?
    Last edited by curare; 12-04-2013 at 09:02 AM.

  15. #115
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 335i-BB Click here to enlarge
    @tony
    I think what you should do now is call Terry and talk to him. To be honest, you will loose a lot of customers if you don't. Just talk to him, find the failure and sell your kit to your customers - including me and my friends. We really want this upgrade and believe you are able to provide it. Working.

    Best wishes from Germany
    He's already lost me as a future customer. You can't act like a 17 year old on some forum when you own a business. Even if you are being accused of something untrue you use tact and facts to back up your product. I wouldn't trust buying a clutch stop from this guy at this point.

  16. #116
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    Does anyone remember in a thread about a month ago, he called Dzenno out for "blowing up" a members turbos with a Cobb tune. The member had to actually come into the thread and call Terry out, basically saying, what are you talking about Terry, he didn't blow up my turbos. Now imagine if he didn't do that. That would be people who just plain didn't know any better who might be wary of tuning with PTF or Cobb in fear of having their turbos "blown up",exactly what Terry would have wanted as it would have drawn people away from the flash to the piggy. This is the kind of grey area people like Terry and Shiv work in, they might not always lie per say, or say something 100% false, but they will spin it exactly how they want it to try to cast just a doubt or a shadow over something, all the while trying to make themselves look like they are trying to help. No one be fooled here, Terry is here just like everyone else to MAKE MONEY. He has good customer service because he knows it helps him sell products. If you want the real scoop on Terry, start talking to vendors he has burned, you will be painted a much different picture.
    I remember that. And that particular user and I have spoke since before he changed tunes than hurried back... that person you mention now believes his turbos were blown by PTF due to too much duty cycle. Has went back to jb4 and regrets ever switching tunes stating his car was much slower with PTF, and post shift timing recovery was downright awful.

    Terry said that he would be back before long, and he was right and that said customer is now happy again with his i guess fake tune Click here to enlarge ? You or I do not know what blew those turbos. That was a poor example.
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    That's funny. I have known 4 guys who have gone from Just Broken tunes to Cobb. Not one has ever returned to a Just Broken tune.

    If you think giving the DME false sensor readings is the way to go, then one would have to wonder why no OEM does it on a performance tune, wouldn't one?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    I remember that. And that particular user and I have spoke since before he changed tunes than hurried back... that person you mention now believes his turbos were blown by PTF due to too much duty cycle. Has went back to jb4 and regrets ever switching tunes stating his car was much slower with PTF, and post shift timing recovery was downright awful.

    Terry said that he would be back before long, and he was right and that said customer is now happy again with his i guess fake tune Click here to enlarge ? You or I do not know what blew those turbos. That was a poor example.
    This post has nothing to do with JB4 nor Cobb tuning, the example was made to show Terry was just throwing stuff out there, where people actually had to come into the thread and defend what was being said. For everyone who thinks any tuner can "blow up" your stage two style turbos, be it ours or RB's. Thats just ignorance of what is really happening. There really is no such thing, when you tell a tuner you want this much power and its approaching or moving past the 500 WHP mark. You are basically killing them slowly, or in some cases quickly yourself. Since we are now the only people collecting the data as to why. Its pretty obvious its the near 250K shaft speeds, and 3:1 BP they are seeing at these levels. You can dispute what I am saying, the facts remain, Terry has no problem knocking off products and calling them his own, he will do and say anything at times to defend his tuning methods, which isn't always a bad thing as long as not taken too far as passion about your products is something I truly believe in. Like I said, if he wants to stop pointing fingers and trouble shoot the issue, I threw out some pretty easy things, if he wants to continue down the path we are on and post flames in the only place it will be tolerated, his own forum, he can go ahead. Offer stands, we can help trouble shoot with him or we will happily take the turbo back and refund him. He can easily get a core or we can find him one. No big deal.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by curare Click here to enlarge
    im not trying to say terry is right and the turbos are bad or anything like that. Im sure with time this thing will make the boost/power we so desperately want, as you say. What I am saying is I think you should refrain from sending out the upgrades until the kinks have been worked out. If other parts need upgrading to make too to make it work, shouldnt that be sorted on a test car first?
    When RB's first came out, were all the things that are known today that needed to be upgraded sorted out? Of course not, the power levels have continued to climb as more things, such as tuning, fueling, etc have been figured out. Bottom line right now is, the N55 tuning scene is BRAND NEW, this very could just be a tuning issue. I can assure you the way the turbos are being sent out, they are very capable of running high boost levels with no issues. But we do our due diligence, things are being looked into as well on our end.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by loesch Click here to enlarge
    He's already lost me as a future customer. You can't act like a 17 year old on some forum when you own a business. Even if you are being accused of something untrue you use tact and facts to back up your product. I wouldn't trust buying a clutch stop from this guy at this point.
    Not sure if you are referring to me or Terry, as he is the only one selling clutch stops. But if you are referring to us, that is your choice, my posts were made in a clear concise manner, addressing any and all questions. This whole thing has turned into exactly what Terry wanted, he is stirring everyone up with half truths and spin, because tha'ts who he is, and what he does when things aren't going his way. I have wasted enough time on this. I will relish the moment we get the the turbo on a car with someone stroking the keys we don't have to worry about if they are with or against us. Then things will become clear.

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    I for one seen the initial post as more of a call for help in setting up the hardware and not a shot at the rep of VTT...

    Instead of any support. Well, I find this disappointing...

    While I don not have a horse in the N55 race (but have many friends that do) I feel somewhat obligated to stand by Terry in all of this. Terry has worked with me on installs and tunes at all hours of the day. Always going out of his way to help me and others even when he has NOTHING FINANCIALLY to gain from it. What he has gained is my (and many others) trust and support going forward.

    All that being said, I really hope you guys find a way to come together and make this work. It seams that all of the pieces are in place. Just need to get the bugs worked out. There is a solid market for a N55 upgrade!

    Good luck to all involved
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by trickcruiser Click here to enlarge
    I for one seen the initial post as more of a call for help in setting up the hardware and not a shot at the rep of VTT...

    Instead of any support. Well, I find this disappointing...

    While I don not have a horse in the N55 race (but have many friends that do) I feel somewhat obligated to stand by Terry in all of this. Terry has worked with me on installs and tunes at all hours of the day. Always going out of his way to help me and others even when he has NOTHING FINANCIALLY to gain from it. What he has gained is my (and many others) trust and support going forward.

    All that being said, I really hope you guys find a way to come together and make this work. It seams that all of the pieces are in place. Just need to get the bugs worked out. There is a solid market for a N55 upgrade!

    Good luck to all involved
    Here is my take on this. I do not frequent N54 and have not been in there in months. I was sent personal emails from Terry calling the turbo junk, one of his partners on E90 posted he said he was going to throw it in the garbage etc. If were a cry for help, why is he posting that on a forum I never go to, while emailing me telling calling things junk? If Terry wants to get a hold of me to help him trouble shoot, he can do so at anytime and his questions will be met with courtesy, and I will of course help him in any way that I can as it helps me as well. Lets hope this does in fact happen. We shall see.

  23. #123
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    As a vendor you should realize that all attention is not good attention. I appreciate what you are doing for the community and believe you make good products. Terry has nothing to lose by your product not working where you lots to lose by your product not working. Yes Terry may have all your contact information but I am sure you have his. I know some appreciate your transparency but the majority of customers see it as your being rude. You need to play the game. 99% of the time Terry is professional and polite on the forums. Is he genuine? Who knows but his customers like it. Yes you may call him a snake but he is been around a long time and has a HUGE following in this community. Take this any way you like and hopefully not an insult just the perspective from a consumer standpoint.

  24. #124
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blaster3500 Click here to enlarge
    As a vendor you should realize that all attention is not good attention. I appreciate what you are doing for the community and believe you make good products. Terry has nothing to lose by your product not working where you lots to lose by your product not working. Yes Terry may have all your contact information but I am sure you have his. I know some appreciate your transparency but the majority of customers see it as your being rude. You need to play the game. 99% of the time Terry is professional and polite on the forums. Is he genuine? Who knows but his customers like it. Yes you may call him a snake but he is been around a long time and has a HUGE following in this community. Take this any way you like and hopefully not an insult just the perspective from a consumer standpoint.
    I agree with you, I do not want any of this discussion going on, I want to get the car tuned to its full potential so the turbo can realize its full potential. This all started because Terry got into yet another tuner war with one of the guys at PTF and instead of keeping it at that, he decided he was going to try to drag us into the mud too, talking very down about us and our products. Considering we had been working together on the N55, I could only attest it to the fact that he was in fact upset about the Vanos issue, and somehow in his mind we were responsible. This was in fact the case and has lead to all of this. Its pretty damn obvious we had nothing to do with a VERY common vanos problem that is known to happen at any time on stock vehicles running stock tunes. What has came after that is in direct relation to those first posts he made. Again smile in your face then stab you in back, or in the front on the forums. Really don't get it, in my mind the way things work are, if you are a vendor in such a small community, if you are working together in any way shape or form with another vendor, you keep things in house with these people, you use phone calls, and emails to talk about potential problems, concerns, etc. Terry has no such internal integrity gauge, he just immediately goes to the forums, in my mind this is not the way to do business if you want to keep friends. So do what you want with this info, if he just wants to wash his hands of this and send it back, that's fine, I'll help him get a cor,e and send this turbo directly to the guy who wanted to be the test car right after Terry gave the ok. Either way we will get something tuned asap.

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    2 out of 5 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I was referring to you, Tony.

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