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  1. #176
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    dam I got to save more money Click here to enlarge
    stage 2 feel soo yesterday ...stage 3 and singles is were its @.

    now im hearing fully build internals ...
    looks like my n54 is a keeper...

    terry your build is looking BEAST!!!
    cant wait for more updates

  2. #177
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    Would be nice to see a VT3 kit, completed, and running by Nov 23rd, Terry. We have a few cars we are completing which will be competing in the event.
    Engine Builder, Tuner, Installation Specialist

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  3. #178
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    Sweet should be a fun day. I'll probably run the E92 @ full weight and hope to break 160 with it.

    Working on a JB4 for the N63 now and if all goes well will have our 550 out there as well.
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  4. #179
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Sounds like a good build. Hopefully we can get a friendly FFTEC vs. VT3 comparo running at the next SS. Any chance you'd be ready by Nov 23rd for NoFlyZone-3?
    We are in full swing production now, so we shall see. I would love to have one up and running as well. Doc race is plugging away and so is our local fab shop.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Sweet should be a fun day. I'll probably run the E92 @ full weight and hope to break 160 with it.

    Working on a JB4 for the N63 now and if all goes well will have our 550 out there as well.
    Terry any chance you ever see selling flash tunes (the software) in the future? Like custom backend flashes to pair with the piggy? Or just a custom Cobb tune?
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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  6. #181
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Terry any chance you ever see selling flash tunes (the software) in the future? Like custom backend flashes to pair with the piggy? Or just a custom Cobb tune?
    http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20563
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  7. #182
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    We are in full swing production now, so we shall see. I would love to have one up and running as well. Doc race is plugging away and so is our local fab shop.
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    Got one more tow with AAA lets make it count Click here to enlarge

  8. #183
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    lol, I know all about that...well didn't know you released your own BMS tweaked version...but...what I'm getting at is what about a custom flash tune from you? Like what PTF does? Going beyond your OTS backend flashes, or a standalone flash tune? I personally will be talking to you as soon as I get my stage 2's installed to talk about any tweaking possible or possible nitrous tuning with my "stacked" tune setup
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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  9. #184
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    lol, I know all about that...well didn't know you released your own BMS tweaked version...but...what I'm getting at is what about a custom flash tune from you? Like what PTF does? Going beyond your OTS backend flashes, or a standalone flash tune? I personally will be talking to you as soon as I get my stage 2's installed to talk about any tweaking possible or possible nitrous tuning with my "stacked" tune setup
    We help people with 1 on 1 (via email) and 1 on many (via N54Tech's support forum) tuning on a daily basis. For free. As long as you are running our stuff. But in my opinion most of that "pay for remote pro tuning" stuff is nonsense. The stuff they spend time dialing in (fuel trims, wastegate mapping, etc) the tune could dial in itself if it was smart enough. No offense to those who do it but the JB4 system is setup such that there really isn't much work to do. Just load the appropriate flash for the intended fuel and select the appropriate JB4 map. We've got stock turbos and RB turbos very well optimized. Single turbos not yet but we'll get there soon enough. Click here to enlarge

    No plans to ever offer a standalone flash tune. It's just too limiting for my taste.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  10. #185
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    Match your car models' number in traps and we good Click here to enlarge
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  11. #186
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    Match your car models' number in traps and we good Click here to enlarge
    Heh 135mph will be tough but it's the ultimate goal. I'll have to go down to 3.08 gearing which may not be so bad since I'll have to go down to 1st gear launches. At 600rw I think it's going to take a 3300# race weight to have a chance though at our slower track. Right now it's slated to be at around 3420#.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 10-29-2013 at 08:18 PM.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  12. #187
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Heh 135mph will be tough but it's the ultimate goal. I'll have to go down to 3.08 gearing which may not be so bad since I'll have to go down to 1st gear launches. At 600rw I think it's going to take a 3300# race weight to have a chance though at our slower track. Right now it's slated to be at around 3420#.
    I am really curious what you could do on full weight with this setup. Even if over 130 that is still good.
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  13. #188
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    We help people with 1 on 1 (via email) and 1 on many (via N54Tech's support forum) tuning on a daily basis. For free. As long as you are running our stuff. But in my opinion most of that "pay for remote pro tuning" stuff is nonsense. The stuff they spend time dialing in (fuel trims, wastegate mapping, etc) the tune could dial in itself if it was smart enough. No offense to those who do it but the JB4 system is setup such that there really isn't much work to do. Just load the appropriate flash for the intended fuel and select the appropriate JB4 map. We've got stock turbos and RB turbos very well optimized. Single turbos not yet but we'll get there soon enough. Click here to enlarge

    No plans to ever offer a standalone flash tune. It's just too limiting for my taste.
    Ok, makes sense, thanks T! The more I learn the more I see why you have this stance, crazy how much people pay on other platforms for boost controllers...I'll take my JB4 thanks!
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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  14. #189
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    Alex is definitely going to be a future asset to our company. Between him, Terry and Tony we've got progress coming.
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  15. #190
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    crazy how much people pay on other platforms for boost controllers...I'll take my JB4 thanks!
    You gotta evaluate each setup & platform individually. Piggys are never bad products, but you can't compare them to a properly setup flash or flash + boost controller setup. The UGR & HPF E46 M3s all originally ran piggy back setups, UGR blew up lots of motors and the Turbo E46 M3s were never consistent. Eventually they found a better setup & quickly ditched them; UGR uses Motec while people running Turbo E46 M3s can opt to use stock DME & boost controller (Max PSI), or a standalone setup -- ProEFI (Saad/HPF/Undercover, etc) & AEM Infinity (Lab22) seem to be the most popular.

    If your motor costs more than a proper EMS setup, there's no reason why you shouldn't protect your investment.
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  16. #191
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    You gotta evaluate each setup & platform individually. Piggys are never bad products, but you can't compare them to a properly setup flash or flash + boost controller setup. The UGR & HPF E46 M3s all originally ran piggy back setups, UGR blew up lots of motors and the Turbo E46 M3s were never consistent. Eventually they found a better setup & quickly ditched them; UGR uses Motec while people running Turbo E46 M3s can opt to use stock DME & boost controller (Max PSI), or a standalone setup -- ProEFI (Saad/HPF/Undercover, etc) & AEM Infinity (Lab22) seem to be the most popular.

    If your motor costs more than a proper EMS setup, there's no reason why you shouldn't protect your investment.
    I agree all day, but so far for us we haven't had to go that for, and with everything the jb4 can do it seems it may be awhile before/if we push these cars beyond what it is capable of.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    You gotta evaluate each setup & platform individually. Piggys are never bad products, but you can't compare them to a properly setup flash or flash + boost controller setup. The UGR & HPF E46 M3s all originally ran piggy back setups, UGR blew up lots of motors and the Turbo E46 M3s were never consistent. Eventually they found a better setup & quickly ditched them; UGR uses Motec while people running Turbo E46 M3s can opt to use stock DME & boost controller (Max PSI), or a standalone setup -- ProEFI (Saad/HPF/Undercover, etc) & AEM Infinity (Lab22) seem to be the most popular.

    If your motor costs more than a proper EMS setup, there's no reason why you shouldn't protect your investment.
    I 100% agree the standalone is superior... but the major difference is, the E46M3, and UGR lambo's... they weren't set up to run boost from factory, they're NOT running in a state they enjoy on the factory EMS... the piggy's are trying to trick the ECU in every way, as well as protect it from things the stock ECU never has to think about.

    at least the N54's stock DME has enough in it to protect itself even with the piggy trying to do different things and lie to it.

    I can't see why for the N54.. cobb flash (or BB flash etc.) + JB4 is anything but an upgrade over flash alone, or piggy alone... I mean, for all intents and purposes, the JB4 is a boost controller++ at it's most basic.
    boop

  18. #193
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    I agree all day, but so far for us we haven't had to go that for, and with everything the jb4 can do it seems it may be awhile before/if we push these cars beyond what it is capable of.
    The Single Turbos N54s would definitely benefit from a standalone, and I believe the Vargas Stage 3s would also. Also, the 6AT crowd would probably welcome an EMS that eliminated high gear flatlining, offered some TQ protection so we didn't fry the trans (or even simple trans swaps), and (something every one would benefit from) a new LPFP fueling option (especially if the DEFIV Direct Port Plate).

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    at least the N54's stock DME has enough in it to protect itself even with the piggy trying to do different things and lie to it..
    Personally I'm not a fan of depending on the N54s DME ability to protect the motor, cause nothing is perfect. Maybe it doesn't matter that much when you can pick up an eBay motor for under $5k, but I expect as N54 equipped cars start to drop below $15k and more people start doing ST, Vargas Stage 3s and build the motor, people are going to look for an alternative that let's them maximize their setup safely. Realistically, nobody wants to buy a $10k car, dump ~$15k on a ST/VTTS3s and supporting mods (LSD, FMIC, a Tune, Fueling, etc) AND then another ~$5k building the motor only to see it detonate because they were riding the DMEs ability to sense/react to knock.

    Personally, I've decided to abandon E85 fuel/tunes for these reasons. We're not using an ethanol sensor or software that automatically compensates for varying ethanol concentration/fuel quality. Instead we're simple adding XX gallons of E85, hoping we got the right amount and pray. While this probably doesn't apply to anyone here, a shocking amount of people I've spoken to do NOT log their cars after adding E85. When I ask them why they don't, (sorry Terry) they respond that they have a JB4 and it'll automatically compensate on Map 7. If automatically compensating means let's ride the knock sensors and pray the fuel trims are in check, then I'll pass on the extra power instead of detonating my motor.


    To each's own... Personally, I plan to build my own high HP project. The very first thing I'll look into is a proper EMS (most likely ProEFI) that is significantly more capable of protecting the motor while (safely) maximizing whatever setup I'm running; especially considering I'd look to have a "Kill Tune" that utilizes E85/E98.
    Last edited by benzy89; 10-30-2013 at 01:08 AM.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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  19. #194
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    I 100% agree the standalone is superior... but the major difference is, the E46M3, and UGR lambo's... they weren't set up to run boost from factory, they're NOT running in a state they enjoy on the factory EMS... the piggy's are trying to trick the ECU in every way, as well as protect it from things the stock ECU never has to think about.

    at least the N54's stock DME has enough in it to protect itself even with the piggy trying to do different things and lie to it.

    I can't see why for the N54.. cobb flash (or BB flash etc.) + JB4 is anything but an upgrade over flash alone, or piggy alone... I mean, for all intents and purposes, the JB4 is a boost controller++ at it's most basic.
    +1
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge

    The Single Turbos N54s would definitely benefit from a standalone, and I believe the Vargas Stage 3s would also. Also, the 6AT crowd would probably welcome an EMS that eliminated high gear flatlining, offered some TQ protection so we didn't fry the trans (or even simple trans swaps), and (something every one would benefit from) a new LPFP fueling option (especially if the DEFIV Direct Port Plate).


    Personally I'm not a fan of depending on the N54s DME ability to protect the motor, cause nothing is perfect. Maybe it doesn't matter that much when you can pick up an eBay motor for under $5k, but I expect as N54 equipped cars start to drop below $15k and more people start doing ST, Vargas Stage 3s and build the motor, people are going to look for an alternative that let's them maximize their setup safely. Realistically, nobody wants to buy a $10k car, dump ~$15k on a ST/VTTS3s and supporting mods (LSD, FMIC, a Tune, Fueling, etc) AND then another ~$5k building the motor only to see it detonate because they were riding the DMEs ability to sense/react to knock.

    Personally, I've decided to abandon E85 fuel/tunes for these reasons. We're not using an ethanol sensor or software that automatically compensates for varying ethanol concentration/fuel quality. Instead we're simple adding XX gallons of E85, hoping we got the right amount and pray. While this probably doesn't apply to anyone here, a shocking amount of people I've spoken to do NOT log their cars after adding E85. When I ask them why they don't, (sorry Terry) they respond that they have a JB4 and it'll automatically compensate on Map 7. If automatically compensating means let's ride the knock sensors and pray the fuel trims are in check, then I'll pass on the extra power instead of detonating my motor.


    To each's own... Personally, I plan to build my own high HP project. The very first thing I'll look into is a proper EMS (most likely ProEFI) that is significantly more capable of protecting the motor while (safely) maximizing whatever setup I'm running; especially considering I'd look to have a "Kill Tune" that utilizes E85/E98.
    while yes, the stock ECU is definitely lacking in many areas, you can't say it doesn't have some pretty advanced knock detection.. it's not like your average japanese performance car's ECU from the 90's.. heck, it's a lot more advanced than even most modern ones.

    while i agree with you, the N54's DME is nothing to be scared of having run your engine in 99% of situations.

    i don't really see how the proEFI, flex-fuel sensor aside, will have much majorly improved protection/knock detection... it can only work off what the existing sensors feed you... i mean, sure, you could probably add a few more temp related ones to tune off, but that's not a huge deal when you can just have the sensors wired to gauges and actively monitor.

    99% of the reason i'd want to go for a standalone would be fuelling, which may be taken care of with that new spacer and the JB4 potentially getting improved... and for the flex-fuel sensor.. which when you can run pure E85, and have a reliable source, becomes a lot less useful.. unless you want to tune to the ragged edge and your knock detection sucks.

    yeah there's a few other things that would be awesome, like the gauges and the traction control functionality, and easier controllable precise tuning... but that's not a 'killer feature' imo.

    yes, i probably won't go insane on the tuning until i get a standalone, but i don't see a problem having it control my engine (which will have cost me roughly $10k to build inc all parts and labour, i worked out, btw lol) running a pretty decent amount of power until then.

    ED: i forgot the other benefits, like you said for AT users, or people wanting to control a sequential, or aftermarket auto trans when one can be fit.
    Last edited by Flinchy; 10-30-2013 at 05:58 AM.
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    We help people with 1 on 1 (via email) and 1 on many (via N54Tech's support forum) tuning on a daily basis. For free. As long as you are running our stuff. But in my opinion most of that "pay for remote pro tuning" stuff is nonsense. The stuff they spend time dialing in (fuel trims, wastegate mapping, etc) the tune could dial in itself if it was smart enough. No offense to those who do it but the JB4 system is setup such that there really isn't much work to do. Just load the appropriate flash for the intended fuel and select the appropriate JB4 map. We've got stock turbos and RB turbos very well optimized. Single turbos not yet but we'll get there soon enough. Click here to enlarge
    Why start battles arghhh Click here to enlarge

    Look, JB or any tuning device available today for the N54 whether it is a piggyback, standalone, is simply not smart enough to autotune the car for ultimate in performance and drivability for its mods, conditions, octane, type of driving/racing. It is a fact. Every single N54 that runs a JB that is/was out there racing and going for numbers comes to you to help them "dial it in". Fact.

    How many guys do you get these days complaining about drivability issues with the JB, inconsistent results especially on pump gas, etc asking for some attention with their tune. The number one complaint we hear from people that were stacking a JB4 G5 ISO with the current BMS flash is drivability issues. They come to us to see if it can be refined while making at least the same or more power reliably. Depending on how much dialing in they had from your end they always end up putting down at least the same but in most cases more power than they had before. Most importantly for them, their cars always end up driving smoother once custom tuned with a flash only.

    The OEM DME on this particular car is made to control boost from the factory. If it wasn't for flash tuning you'd still be limited by fuel and unable to run E85 past E20 mixes. Finding ways to keep the JB alive in this world is great for your business but people need to realize that there's really nothing on the performance side of things that a piggyback can do better than flash tuning especially when doing a custom flash calibration, especially so on stock or stage 2 type turbos. Large turbo tuning is a separate topic and its already been shown what flash tuning on its own can do but that was just getting our feet wet as kits weren't on any of our shop cars. With turbo kits on our shop cars we'll take it a step further as we always do.

    Lastly, once you take the car off the dyno, by far, most BMWs are daily drivers and daily drivability is very important too. Everything evolves over time ( @LostMarine, you like that one eh? Click here to enlarge) There is a lot more to custom tuning especially when tailoring to the driver's goals/needs.

    Maps come off the shelf, the same every time, drivers don't...
    Click here to enlarge

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    lol.. its a habit now.. you can do LESS with your M3, or Evolve it Click here to enlarge

    sorry, back on to N54's

  23. #198
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    lol.. its a habit now.. you can do LESS with your M3, or Evolve it Click here to enlarge

    sorry, back on to N54's
    lol
    Click here to enlarge

  24. #199
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    lol.. its a habit now.. you can do LESS with your M3, or Evolve it Click here to enlarge

    sorry, back on to N54's
    I need ESS VT2 650 vs. Evolve comparisons. ESSVT2 + install of upgraded bearings = Evolve price. DECISIONS?!?!?!
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

    2007 e92 Mont. Blue 335i | 6MT | COBB Tuned | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Helix FMIC | AA DPs | HKS Exhaust | DCI | Stett CP w/ Forged DVs | KWv2 Coilovers | UUC Sway Bars & SSK | HPF Stg 2 Clutch | HFS-4 | M3 Suspension Bits | DEFIVfab Diff Lockdown Kit | Stoptech Trophy BBK

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge

    Personally, I've decided to abandon E85 fuel/tunes for these reasons. We're not using an ethanol sensor or software that automatically compensates for varying ethanol concentration/fuel quality. Instead we're simple adding XX gallons of E85, hoping we got the right amount and pray. While this probably doesn't apply to anyone here, a shocking amount of people I've spoken to do NOT log their cars after adding E85. When I ask them why they don't, (sorry Terry) they respond that they have a JB4 and it'll automatically compensate on Map 7. If automatically compensating means let's ride the knock sensors and pray the fuel trims are in check, then I'll pass on the extra power instead of detonating my motor.
    E85 is great stuff. But it's map 5 that will automatically adjust to the fuel mixture. Map 7 is a fixed boost map. So on map 7 you are relying entirely on the DME to compensate if you don't put enough E85 in but we've found the saturation point to be around 50-60% E85. So as long as you are putting in that much or more, you won't have an issue with knock. You may with fuel pressure if you don't upgrade the pump but the JB4 will detect this and kick you over to map 4 before anything bad happens. If you don't know how much E85 you are adding or often don't add it, by all means use map 5!
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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