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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by encinitas Click here to enlarge
    In this thread I negged Shiv for his statement on the V4 vs. a "Reflash".
    Rep is completely anonymous and you don't need to explain yourself. It is your rep, use it how you see fit, you owe no one an explanation. You earned it, use it.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No one is going to neg rep him for the sake of jb vs. procede, other than LostMarine and Terry it seems.

    The only issue I have right now is the rep spread option is not compatible with the programming for the reputation system we have in each post (the thumbs up and down). So, that variable needs to be programmed into it to take it into account but it is not quite so simple.

    Basically, what needs to change is for the system to force you to have to spread rep around so you can't focus on repping the same person over and over. That is the only thing that needs to be fixed right now and will prevent the abuse or targeting of certain members like we just saw which, frankly, is unfair to Shiv and does not follow the intention of the system.

    i didnt neg rep till after the rep comment.. and i dont neg rep everything he says, in fact I pos rep a few things just for coming on and sharing.. its not me..

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    Public death threats werent enough so negative repping seems like the only logical next step.
    lol.. "$#@! you up" and "kill you" have different, distinctly clear meanings, i only said the first. but again, here you are way OT , and again, i didnt neg you until after you $#@! about being negged.. i dont do it for no reason, only when its warranted.. i can comprehend the fact that continuos negs dont affect the system
    Last edited by LostMarine; 09-25-2010 at 08:40 AM.

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    I don't understand why everyone is getting excited over this stuff. The thread is about a new user adjustable feature of the V4 and shiv provided some more clarification. Is that such a bad thing?

    I personally like the options for customization you get with a V4 PROcede. Each tune has a different approach and one is not necessarily superior to the others. A lot of this is just a preference of a particular approach. They all work and produce amazing results on the N54.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Doug007 Click here to enlarge
    I don't understand why everyone is getting excited over this stuf
    Past tensions and unresolved issues.
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  5. #30
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    Good point Doug007. Great clarification Sticky.

  6. #31
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    btw guys. raced my friends 1000RR bike today. $#@! was fast as hell, he took me for a ride on the back after, didnt even get above 7k with me and it was hard to hold on! well when we raced he let me hit the throttle and as soon as he heard the turbos start to whine up he hit his instant response throttle Click here to enlarge as full boost set in we were nearly neck and neck with a slight pull to him in 3rd gear starting around 60mph. as i shifted to 4th he pulled a a car length or more and then i held up pretty well. i let off at 140 with him around 2 cl's ahead of me. not bad for a pumpgas tune Click here to enlarge we did multiple runs but that was my best one because he let me throttle in a bit before he lit it rip himself. the last run we did i overboost'd at the top of 4th, (god i love how these turbos dont die off in power) and the car limped via the procede, i knew it was overboost because of the double SES light flash. i guess we have some final revisions to do on the tuning but man the car is feeling great. i cannot wait to try racegas and really open her up. ill try to get an in-dash video or dyno soon. im pretty busy monday but maybe tuesday i can find some time, hope its not a scorcher out like today!

    btw, i didnt post it in the race section because i have no evidence. just my word and my friend's.
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    btw guys. raced my friends 1000RR bike today. $#@! was fast as hell, he took me for a ride on the back after, didnt even get above 7k with me and it was hard to hold on! well when we raced he let me hit the throttle and as soon as he heard the turbos start to whine up he hit his instant response throttle Click here to enlarge as full boost set in we were nearly neck and neck with a slight pull to him in 3rd gear starting around 60mph. as i shifted to 4th he pulled a a car length or more and then i held up pretty well. i let off at 140 with him around 2 cl's ahead of me. not bad for a pumpgas tune Click here to enlarge we did multiple runs but that was my best one because he let me throttle in a bit before he lit it rip himself. the last run we did i overboost'd at the top of 4th, (god i love how these turbos dont die off in power) and the car limped via the procede, i knew it was overboost because of the double SES light flash. i guess we have some final revisions to do on the tuning but man the car is feeling great. i cannot wait to try racegas and really open her up. ill try to get an in-dash video or dyno soon. im pretty busy monday but maybe tuesday i can find some time, hope its not a scorcher out like today!

    btw, i didnt post it in the race section because i have no evidence. just my word and my friend's.
    so autotune didnt keep it from over boosting?

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    so autotune didnt keep it from over boosting?
    Seems autotune needs some tweaks as well.
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  9. #34
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    we set the boost limit is all. its a pumpgas file, and definitely not an off the shelf one. i dont think autotuning has anything to do with it actually, just some of the user variables 'tweaked' as you say sticky. i wont hold any bad info from you guys, when i give an update its 100% truth, good or bad. in this case, all you guys seem to notice is the last race of the day when i hit an overboost event. its not like anything happened, im sure you guys have had your tune limit you (limp or whatever) because you push barriers.
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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    we set the boost limit is all. its a pumpgas file, and definitely not an off the shelf one. i dont think autotuning has anything to do with it actually, just some of the user variables 'tweaked' as you say sticky. i wont hold any bad info from you guys, when i give an update its 100% truth, good or bad. in this case, all you guys seem to notice is the last race of the day when i hit an overboost event. its not like anything happened, im sure you guys have had your tune limit you (limp or whatever) because you push barriers.
    I wasnt trying to instigate. I know firsthand that upped TT tunes have to be tweaked. I never said differently, its another that claimed "no tweaking" required.I just thought that Autotune would not have let i happen, im sure you were just as surprised as i am.

    Boost limits are great, i hit mine the first time on the Dyno.. which reminds me.. i need to get back now that its not 95* w/95% humidity and im on fresh plugs w/o wheels rubbing..

    But anyway..Glad your keeping us filled in..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Seems autotune needs some tweaks as well.
    I very much disagree that it needs to be tweaked. The way it is set up works great:

    - You set a default boost level (where you want autotune to start from)
    - You set a max boost that you don't want to cross (you only ever hit the max boost setting if conditions/octane/mods allow)
    - You set a failsafe delay (in milliseconds). If you cross the max boost setting by ~1psi for this long you trigger the safety feature.

    You are only ever nearing or hitting your max boost setting because it is safe to. Because I know the only time i'm walking that fine line of "max boost" is when the car can comfortably/safely do it I set my failsafe delay to be longer than the default to avoid instances where the car would go in to "safe mode" when it doesn't need to.
    Last edited by jpsimon; 09-27-2010 at 02:04 PM.
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jpsimon Click here to enlarge
    I very much disagree that it needs to be tweaked. The way it is set up works great:

    - You set a default boost level (where you want autotune to start from)
    - You set a max boost that you don't want to cross (you only ever hit the max boost setting if conditions/octane/mods allow)
    - You set a failsafe delay (in milliseconds). If you cross the max boost setting by ~1psi for this long you trigger the safety feature.
    Ok... so these are user variables as stated that must be modified.

    Are these the only ones?
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  13. #38
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    Asr turbos should spool real quick. Running Epl and Asr turbos by one and the same tune should result Asr turbos to boost higher.

  14. #39
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    They don't HAVE to be modified, but every persons setup is different. If one wants to run more boost than the default, they change the max-boost setting.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ok... so these are user variables as stated that must be modified.

    Are these the only ones?
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  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jpsimon Click here to enlarge
    They don't HAVE to be modified, but every persons setup is different.
    From what oddjob stated seems they do have to be modified or you can overshoot the boost and potentially create some problems?
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  16. #41
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    I personally didn't have that issue (except for what I was describing walking the line of "max-boost").
    Last edited by jpsimon; 09-27-2010 at 02:36 PM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Asr turbos should spool real quick. Running Epl and Asr turbos by one and the same tune should result Asr turbos to boost higher.
    your basis on this what again? since any of the 3 upgraded twins need some tweaking, as we have seen. all of them are creating more boost on stock turbo maps..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    your basis on this what again? since any of the 3 upgraded twins need some tweaking, as we have seen. all of them are creating more boost on stock turbo maps..
    Basis on the quicker spool.
    I did not mean that there would be differences in the steady max boost level but in the overboost / spikes.

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Basis on the quicker spool.
    I did not mean that there would be differences in the steady max boost level but in the overboost / spikes.
    right, but that is what needs to be addressed by any of the tunes, on any of the upped turbos. So i havent seen anything that says the ASR are spooling quicker than the others. and if they are, its by 1/100's of a milisecond. we are not talking giant single turbo's here, all of them are working within the limits of the stock housings

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    right, but that is what needs to be addressed by any of the tunes, on any of the upped turbos. So i havent seen anything that says the ASR are spooling quicker than the others. and if they are, its by 1/100's of a milisecond. we are not talking giant single turbo's here, all of them are working within the limits of the stock housings
    +1.. they all spool very quick it seems, no worse than the stock turbos... some perhaps even better. But the difference won't be huge either way.
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    im glad the thread is progressing the way it is. i think we can all agree with what is being said about spool time. im going to try to get a dyno tomorrow afternoon if i dont head to ASR. im sure it'll be above 95F ambient but ive seen people are dynoing in similar conditions, except for Miami's horrible humidity. ill see if i can hit lujan, aa's mustang dyno, td, or machines gone wild to use the baselines i have there, if not its not the end of the world, dynojets or mustang dynos are pretty well established as a bar.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    right, but that is what needs to be addressed by any of the tunes, on any of the upped turbos. So i havent seen anything that says the ASR are spooling quicker than the others. and if they are, its by 1/100's of a milisecond. we are not talking giant single turbo's here, all of them are working within the limits of the stock housings
    The difference in the turbos requires more alterations than just renaming it "autotune".
    Ball bearing spools quicker than journal bearing. I dont know where you get your fractions of milliseconds. If ASR did not spool quick, who would want to pay the premium for them? Especially them having some disadvantages not replacing wastegates and requiring short oil change intervals.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    The difference in the turbos requires more alterations than just renaming it "autotune".
    Ball bearing spools quicker than journal bearing. I dont know where you get your fractions of milliseconds. If ASR did not spool quick, who would want to pay the premium for them? Especially them having some disadvantages not replacing wastegates and requiring short oil change intervals.
    +1 the ceramic bb chra should spool faster than the td04 cartridge i believe that is used in the RB design. the dyno will tell the story.

    654: the wastegates are bushed so they wont ever rattle, they are modified a little for durability and function. the only downside with asr is having to wait and let the car idle and chill after a spirited run. i could get a turbo timer but ehhh...
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    oddjob2021- What transmission do you have? If you have a 6AT, just increase overboost delay from 5 to 10 and you should be good.

    The reason you hit overboost protection is because you exceeded the max boost setting by more than 1psi for longer than 0.5 seconds. And this is because your turbos require less DC to achieve the same boost. So just keep on driving and the Procede will compensate for wastegate stiffness the more you go full throttle. For the first few runs, you may trigger the overboost protection. But as it adapts to the wastegates, it will all sort itself out. So there is essentially nothing you have to do other than run the baseline map. If you want to make a pre-emptive adjustment so that autotuning doesn't need to do as much learning, you can reduce your Boost Control DC Gain by say 5%.
    Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 09-27-2010 at 08:56 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    The difference in the turbos requires more alterations than just renaming it "autotune".
    Ball bearing spools quicker than journal bearing. I dont know where you get your fractions of milliseconds. If ASR did not spool quick, who would want to pay the premium for them? Especially them having some disadvantages not replacing wastegates and requiring short oil change intervals.
    great question..Click here to enlarge

    what im saying is that the TD/EPL/RB all spool and provide more boost faster, requiring the tune to be "toned down" or else they ALL overboost. This is not just an ASR turbo occurance. if in fact they spool faster than the rest, it is just fractions of a second. were going from what, 30mm to 50mm in size

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