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  1. #1
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    possible quick fix for fuel injector woes...

    Preface: no guarantee applies, your results may differ from mine. I am merely reporting my personal experience. I assume no liabily for any damages that may incur etc

    With that out of the way , I have been experiencing cold weather misfires that I have been working to rectify for some time now. Spark plugs were changed, coils were changed, still started like crap. At that point I started looking towards carbon buildup on the valves and or bad injectors as the culprit. Once running and warm its fine but it misfires in cylinders 1-4 at first

    I read somewhere about an injector recall that seemed like it may apply to my car but called several different dealers and got the runaround. Just for the hell of it I added a bottle of berryman b12 to my half full tank last week. Drove it normally for the last 200 miles and noticed gradually it has been getting better. Now I have had the last 2 starts with no misfires whatsoever even though its been cold out which usually makes it worse.


    I am thinking that this may have removed some of the carbon deposits on the injector tips and seems to have made a significant difference. While it probably would not make a difference on a severe case its worth a shot for 5 dollars.

    B12 is an aggressive solvent with acetone and I am unsure of any long term effects on the fuel system so do so at your own risk

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    I was just actually thinking last night about fuel injector cleaner and how it could still have benefits in DI engines. If the injectors are failing because of carbon buildup, this might be a good preventative maintenance step.
    Eppur si muove.

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    Do you think there is a significant difference (if at all) between the b12 and Techron? I've used techron for piece of mind, but never noticed an actual change in how the car ran...
    2007 Jet Black E90 335xi "The Mistress" / PTF-Cobb / E50 / FuelitS2 / 5" Stepped FMIC / Synapse BOV and Charge Pipe / Alpina Flash / Muffler Delete w/ 4in Black Tips / DCI / 19x8.5 Satin Black Squared Enkei Raijins / 245/35/r19 Bridgestone Potenza S04 Pole Position / 20mm Rear Spacers / 2 10" Rockford Fosgate's Added to Logic7 (15 total speakers!)
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by I6+TT=FTW Click here to enlarge
    Do you think there is a significant difference (if at all) between the b12 and Techron? I've used techron for piece of mind, but never noticed an actual change in how the car ran...
    If the car isn't already experiencing a problem, then nothing is likely to happen. You should be able to dig up the MSDS for both to compare the ingredients.
    Eppur si muove.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
    If the car isn't already experiencing a problem, then nothing is likely to happen. You should be able to dig up the MSDS for both to compare the ingredients.
    Well I have always had "minor misfires" at warm up and very minor at idle (is it normal, very possibly). Ive had valve cleaning done (Got BMWNA to cover it! was pretty excited about that). But I am assuming even though a bank of injectors were replaced by the previous owner, that I probably need to replace the other bank to completely fix the "little shutters" at idle.
    Techron just never seemed to improve this...
    2007 Jet Black E90 335xi "The Mistress" / PTF-Cobb / E50 / FuelitS2 / 5" Stepped FMIC / Synapse BOV and Charge Pipe / Alpina Flash / Muffler Delete w/ 4in Black Tips / DCI / 19x8.5 Satin Black Squared Enkei Raijins / 245/35/r19 Bridgestone Potenza S04 Pole Position / 20mm Rear Spacers / 2 10" Rockford Fosgate's Added to Logic7 (15 total speakers!)
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    I'd be interested to know if anyone ever had their "bad" injectors sent out to have professionally tested and/or cleaned.

    e.g. http://www.injectorrx.com/direct-inj...ctor-cleaning/ these guys claim $25 per injector. No idea if they are good or not but it looks decent.

    Given the price of the GDI injectors and recoding etc, I think it's worth a shot.

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    I run a bottle of seafoam in the gas tank every other oil change, or close.

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    The techron is good and recommended by BMW. I always found it to be an effective preventative maintenance in other cars but I don't think it is as aggressive as b12. B12 contains acetone and is supposedly too harsh to run through vacuum system, which was why berryman stopped marketing it as an alternative to seafoam. Its also pretty cheap. Seafoam skyrocketed in price over the last few years

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    I couldn't help myself.

    https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/...cDataId=283264
    http://www.berrymanproducts.com/asse...5-2633-R03.pdf

    CAS# 64742-47-8 : http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/Ch...d80summary.pdf

    The exposure limits for some of the ingredients in B12 are supper low, like 20 ppm for Toluene and 2-butoxyethanol. Exposure limits for what is in Techron are considerably higher (165 ppm for CAS# 64742-47-8 listed above). I suspect the Techron is less aggressive than the B12.
    Eppur si muove.

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    I've had my fair share of flirting with fuel injector cleaners. Even the best ones out there will leave your oil in poor condition. I highly recommend changing the oil after the use of any fuel system treatments should you insist on using them in the first place.

    To minimize your costs, use the fuel injector cleaners during the last tank of gas, right before your oil change is due. When you finish the last gas tank with fuel treatment in it, change the oil.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    I've had my fair share of flirting with fuel injector cleaners. Even the best ones out there will leave your oil in poor condition. I highly recommend changing the oil after the use of any fuel system treatments should you insist on using them in the first place.

    To minimize your costs, use the fuel injector cleaners during the last tank of gas, right before your oil change is due. When you finish the last gas tank with fuel treatment in it, change the oil.

    If there is any consolation, I have been using Lucas fuel stabilizer on my Superduty every single tank I fill up..... oil analysis shows no issue.
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    just a quick follow up-

    if you have been having what you believe to be injector related cold start issues go buy 2 cans of b12 now

    it worked great after about a hundred miles of driving, then ran a bit rough so i put a second can in. 3 tanks of gas since then and its been starting up great every day!

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    Cold start missfires are injector related, probably leaking overnight. Find the bad one and replace+coding
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    That's the beauty of the b12...I had all the symptoms of fuel injector issues and decided to try an aggressive fuel system cleaner which actually worked. Maybe its a short term fix but Iwent from cold start misfires in 4 cylinders to none

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    any ideas on my car, starts beautifully every morning . but after that when its warm long crank and stumbles for a min before idling fine. have logged hpfp and lpfp with no issues 50/50 e85 is much better on a stock map but will still do it . new coils new plugs .

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    b12 fuel injector cleaner has it worked until know for u ?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by manbeer Click here to enlarge
    Preface: no guarantee applies, your results may differ from mine. I am merely reporting my personal experience. I assume no liabily for any damages that may incur etc

    With that out of the way , I have been experiencing cold weather misfires that I have been working to rectify for some time now. Spark plugs were changed, coils were changed, still started like crap. At that point I started looking towards carbon buildup on the valves and or bad injectors as the culprit. Once running and warm its fine but it misfires in cylinders 1-4 at first

    I read somewhere about an injector recall that seemed like it may apply to my car but called several different dealers and got the runaround. Just for the hell of it I added a bottle of berryman b12 to my half full tank last week. Drove it normally for the last 200 miles and noticed gradually it has been getting better. Now I have had the last 2 starts with no misfires whatsoever even though its been cold out which usually makes it worse.


    I am thinking that this may have removed some of the carbon deposits on the injector tips and seems to have made a significant difference. While it probably would not make a difference on a severe case its worth a shot for 5 dollars.

    B12 is an aggressive solvent with acetone and I am unsure of any long term effects on the fuel system so do so at your own risk

  17. #17
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    During the cold season here in the Midwest, they switch to winter blend type of fuel which has higher content of ethanol and different additives to improve dissipation of bad exhaust gasses better. Unfortunately, everyone around the midwest experiences more injector failures with this winter blend of fuel. I am not 100% sure if this is isolated to the midwest or not, but this is the trend here.

    Ethanol (like brake fluid) has the tendency to rapidly absorb moisture from the air. When enough water is absorbed from the air, it will bond with the water molecules and the water-ethanol mix will separate. As it is heavier than both gasolene and water itself, it will sink into the gas tank, just waiting to be sucked into the fuel system.

    I don't daily drive my car and in the winter, sometimes I don't drive it for months. Here is how I try to minimize the injector problem:

    1) Always store the car with full tank of gas. Less air in the gas tank means less chance of moisture being absorbed. Make sure gas cap is really tight
    2) Before filling up the tank, add one 12 or 16 oz bottle of Mobil 1 fuel injector cleaner concentrate. You want the red lettering, not the blue lettering.
    3) Add 6 ozs of Stabil (red fluid) for ethanol fuels. Stabil will help prevent fuel degradation and moisture absorption.
    4) If possible, drive the car once a week for more than 20 miles continuously.

    Some personal stats so far:
    * Owned the car since 2009, FBO since 2010.
    * Replaced 6 fuel injectors personally and 4 at BMW
    * All injectors fail, including the new gen 2 ones.
    * 8 injector failures were during winter, 2 during early spring/summer
    * No injector failures last winter when I started using Stabil and fuel injector cleaner


    I realize this is not enough data to make a conclusion at all and I could very well be an isolated case. I am just sharing what I've noticed and what I am doing.
    Last edited by vasillalov; 12-09-2014 at 09:10 AM. Reason: Added clarity
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