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  1. #1
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    My clutch is toast after a bunch of 18+psi single turbo tuning pulls, replacement suggestions?

    So I cranked the boost up to about 18.5psi this weekend and did about 10 to 20 tuning/logging pulls. Then some 2-step launches and just generally having fun with the car. Last year the clutch held up to 505 ft-lbs of tq no problem. Well its' nearly dead now and slips even when I'm not in boost.

    So whats the best option out there for a 700+HP clutch these days? I'm not quite sure what torque numbers I'll end up putting down, but its definitely over 500 now if you can trust Virtual Dyno numbers.

    I've got some parts wholesale accounts so I can get ACT, Comp, Exedy, Centerforce, and most other major brands at cost. But I really didn't expect it to go this quick so I'd like to find something under $500 MSRP if thats' possible. I wasn't planning to have to replace it until next year.Click here to enlarge

    Just looking for some suggestions/reviews before I make an impulse purchase tomorrow morning.
    Single Turbo E92 BMW 335i | My YouTube channel
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    If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn....... Then, you have enough horsepower.

  2. #2
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    And I may sound like an idiot for asking this next question, I've done tons of clutch jobs over the years on various cars, but they're all different...

    So, I did about 5 launches off the 2-step over the weekend, and the car is also putting down more torque than it ever has before, but I didn't expect the clutch to go out completely.

    Could something else be going on? The pedal feels "different", not like a lighter press as if it lost fluid, but like it doesn't engage hardly at all, maybe due to the slipping?

    When I push the pedal in, then let it out I hear a click, and its' only when releasing the pedal. It didn't sound like this in the past.

    Has anyone had this happen before? I'd hate to rip the tranny out to replace the clutch just to find out that its' a different problem.
    Single Turbo E92 BMW 335i | My YouTube channel
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    If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn....... Then, you have enough horsepower.

  3. #3
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    The only clutch I would recommend for that power and street use is the spec 3+ I have one in the shop car and the pedal feel is so nice, it feels like a stock clutch to me, its grabbier at times, but not bad at all. As far as keeping under $500, don't really think thats possible for those power levels.

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    $500? You've put how much into the car? Just do it right man...
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    $500? You've put how much into the car? Just do it right man...
    +1
    I lol'd when I read that first post about cost. Click here to enlarge

    I'm on Spec 2+ and love the feel and holding (FBO, stock turbos).
    Change is constant

  6. #6
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    The only clutch I would recommend for that power and street use is the spec 3+ I have one in the shop car and the pedal feel is so nice, it feels like a stock clutch to me, its grabbier at times, but not bad at all. As far as keeping under $500, don't really think thats possible for those power levels.
    Thank you for the suggesting. Looks like my price on the 3+ isn't too much over $500, so I think I'll go with that. I ran that on my 3000GT VR4 and it held up very well. I could get the stage 5 for less, but last time I ran that clutch the screeching sound of the feramic iron pucks engaging nearly drove me insane.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    $500? You've put how much into the car? Just do it right man...
    My entire single turbo kit cost me a grand total of $1117.95 (excluding the cost of welding gas/welding wire), $500 is ~45% of that, so thats' quite a bit. You don't have to spend a million dollars to go fast, you just have to learn to manufacture things yourself rather than buy them. If I had the equipment to manufacture clutches I'd be all over it, but I'm not there quite yet. You can do things "right" for cheap if you know what your doing. Most people don't, so they just throw money at something until it works.
    Single Turbo E92 BMW 335i | My YouTube channel
    Click here to enlarge
    If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn....... Then, you have enough horsepower.

  7. #7
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    I had two "clicks" upon release of my clutch about a year ago. One was heard outside of the car, one inside. The one inside was the return spring behind the pedal and it was just some plastic binding in the spring assembly. The one outside was solved by removing the slave cylinder, cleaning the rod and regreasing.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Roy Cormier Click here to enlarge
    Thank you for the suggesting. Looks like my price on the 3+ isn't too much over $500, so I think I'll go with that. I ran that on my 3000GT VR4 and it held up very well. I could get the stage 5 for less, but last time I ran that clutch the screeching sound of the feramic iron pucks engaging nearly drove me insane.



    My entire single turbo kit cost me a grand total of $1117.95 (excluding the cost of welding gas/welding wire), $500 is ~45% of that, so thats' quite a bit. You don't have to spend a million dollars to go fast, you just have to learn to manufacture things yourself rather than buy them. If I had the equipment to manufacture clutches I'd be all over it, but I'm not there quite yet. You can do things "right" for cheap if you know what your doing. Most people don't, so they just throw money at something until it works.
    $1117.95? you should make a couple and sell. I would deff buy that for such a good price Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spectacula Click here to enlarge
    $1117.95? you should make a couple and sell. I would deff buy that for such a good price Click here to enlarge
    Right? But then he wouldn't be the only one to have it....
    @Roy Cormier man that's cool the turbo kit didn't cost much, was just trying to be realistic about cost of things, and regardless of me not knowing you built your own kit and did the work yourself...don't tell me you've only put $1,117.95 into the entire car....
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

    Click here to enlarge

  10. #10
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Roy Cormier Click here to enlarge
    My entire single turbo kit cost me a grand total of $1117.95 (excluding the cost of welding gas/welding wire), $500 is ~45% of that, so thats' quite a bit. You don't have to spend a million dollars to go fast, you just have to learn to manufacture things yourself rather than buy them. If I had the equipment to manufacture clutches I'd be all over it, but I'm not there quite yet. You can do things "right" for cheap if you know what your doing. Most people don't, so they just throw money at something until it works.
    I own a turbocharger company and could not possibly build a turbo kit for that price, did you buy a junk yard turbo and use scrap metal to build your manifolds, DP's, etc, where did you get the BOV, WG, hoses, fittings, clamps, flanges, etc. Its possible if you went with all chinese parts,and a junk yard turbo to achieve that price, I guess, but thats not something people would buy. The average person who thinks they can build a kit for that price, is in for a big surprise. Not really a good thing.

  11. #11
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    Yeah I went the build-your-own route on my SC300 and clocked in at $1500 and used a few chinese parts (not the turbo) and I came out CHEAP. $1100 is crazy cheap, I'm guessing you had a bunch of stuff laying around to use? A decent 60mm+ turbo costs that much alone new.

  12. #12
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Roy Cormier Click here to enlarge
    You don't have to spend a million dollars to go fast, you just have to learn to manufacture things yourself rather than buy them. If I had the equipment to manufacture clutches I'd be all over it, but I'm not there quite yet. You can do things "right" for cheap if you know what your doing. Most people don't, so they just throw money at something until it works.
    Hear, hear!
    Eppur si muove.

  13. #13
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    1 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I'm actually not joking about the $1117 number, but you are correct that I had some of the parts laying around already. I didn't have to buy the wastegate, header piping, feed-line, or drain-line. Off-the-shelf Borg-Warner turbochargers are extremely affordable. I'm talking just over $500. I've been doing this on and off for years so after a while things just pile up in the garage. Then they either get used for a new project, or sold.

    I have a spreadsheet listing the cost of everything, but I don't know if I'd be violating some agreement with my wholesale accounts by sharing the wholesale costs. So I'll refrain from posting that up for now...

    But thanks everyone for the clutch suggestions.
    Single Turbo E92 BMW 335i | My YouTube channel
    Click here to enlarge
    If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn....... Then, you have enough horsepower.

  14. #14
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Roy Cormier Click here to enlarge
    I'm actually not joking about the $1117 number, but you are correct that I had some of the parts laying around already. I didn't have to buy the wastegate, header piping, feed-line, or drain-line. Off-the-shelf Borg-Warner turbochargers are extremely affordable. I'm talking just over $500. I've been doing this on and off for years so after a while things just pile up in the garage. Then they either get used for a new project, or sold.

    I have a spreadsheet listing the cost of everything, but I don't know if I'd be violating some agreement with my wholesale accounts by sharing the wholesale costs. So I'll refrain from posting that up for now...

    But thanks everyone for the clutch suggestions.
    So that price is not realistic at all for the average consumer, not only did you have things laying around that were able to use (expensive things), you did all the welding and work yourself, and had wholesale accounts for the rest of the stuff. Throwing that number out there for a community to see as a number they can build a kit for is not really accurate, and in my opinion skews the mindset of people into thinking they are paying too much for things, that they really aren't. I would like to see someone start from dead scratch, buy things at retail price, and build a complete well matched turbo system, meaning welding costs, all of it, and report back what it costs. Its not cheap
    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 10-07-2013 at 01:08 PM.

  15. #15
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    If I had to purchase those things that would still hardly increase my cost. It would most likely come in close to $2000-$2200, which was approximately what it cost to build the kit for my 3000GT using a Borg Warner S400SX, Synapse WG, Ebay 4" FMIC (which performed fine @ 876WHP). At that time I didn't have wholesale accounts, so I had to purchase all parts, and pay retail for them. The S475 brand new was a little under $600. A DIY'er could easily do this, but of course if you pay someone else to do it the labor might rape your wallet.
    Single Turbo E92 BMW 335i | My YouTube channel
    Click here to enlarge
    If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn....... Then, you have enough horsepower.

  16. #16
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Roy Cormier Click here to enlarge
    If I had to purchase those things that would still hardly increase my cost. It would most likely come in close to $2000-$2200, which was approximately what it cost to build the kit for my 3000GT using a Borg Warner S400SX, Synapse WG, Ebay 4" FMIC (which performed fine @ 876WHP). At that time I didn't have wholesale accounts, so I had to purchase all parts, and pay retail for them. The S475 brand new was a little under $600. A DIY'er could easily do this, but of course if you pay someone else to do it the labor might rape your wallet.
    Cool man, obviously you are not the average consumer. Say what you will, your average person is not building a kit for that much. Period, unless he is going full china (which Ebay is) I would never want to put low quality parts on a car like an N54. But again this is all opinion. The old addage to me never fails to hold up, ever. Cheap, fast, reliable - Pick two.

  17. #17
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    I'm going to pull the trans tonight to take a look at it before I order the replacement clutch, just incase something else happened. As of this morning the clutch is sort of "shuddering" when engaging. I think we've got one more track event coming up at one of the local drag strips this year, maybe I can even get a run in before winter if I get something shipped soon enough. I don't really care about 1/4 mile times but it'd be cool to compare the trap speed to my stock turbos maxxed out on E85.
    Single Turbo E92 BMW 335i | My YouTube channel
    Click here to enlarge
    If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner till the time you brake for the next turn....... Then, you have enough horsepower.

  18. #18
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    advice friend, when you change your clutch look to change your flywheel too.


    I have updated shortly by this

    http://ccc-motorsport.de/index.php?o...tegory_id=1649
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    The only clutch I would recommend for that power and street use is the spec 3+ I have one in the shop car and the pedal feel is so nice, it feels like a stock clutch to me, its grabbier at times, but not bad at all. As far as keeping under $500, don't really think thats possible for those power levels.
    Just curious, did you even consider the twin disk stuff like the clutchmasters 850?

  20. #20
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    is the $500 clutch price including a single mass flywheel? DMFW would be a ticking timebomb just about with big power from the single.
    boop

  21. #21
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Carl Morris Click here to enlarge
    Just curious, did you even consider the twin disk stuff like the clutchmasters 850?
    Haven't considered it, really no need to at this point. The 3+ honestly had near stock pedal feel and is rated at 700 WTQ. Until we are making over 700 WTQ, I like to keep it simple.

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    @VargasTurbo: Not sure why you are so irritated with the sub 5k cost of Ray's single turbo cost. Comes off as a little weird.

    Roy:
    I'm running the CM dual disk setup, it's glorious and support high numbers. That being said it's egregiously expensive, loud + chattery and the engagement takes a lot of getting used to.
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

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    Sounds kind of like when I snapped a few fingers off my pressure plate in the e36

  24. #24
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    @VargasTurbo: Not sure why you are so irritated with the sub 5k cost of Ray's single turbo cost. Comes off as a little weird.

    Roy:
    I'm running the CM dual disk setup, it's glorious and support high numbers. That being said it's egregiously expensive, loud + chattery and the engagement takes a lot of getting used to.
    IMO Tony is just trying to keep costs realistic. And he is right the average consumer will not be able to put this together for $1200 or anywhere close. I would be happy for a full setup less than 5k. I think most people have a unreasonable expectations for costs of these kits. I would love to have a happy medium between the 7k tuner built kits and these homemade kits.
    Click here to enlarge
    FBO's. Spec S2+. E85.

  25. #25
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    I run a spec stage 3+ clutch and steel flywheel in my car. Chatter is kinda loud and it takes getting used to driving but it will hold the power. It can be had for a really good price through protuningfreaks.
    Click here to enlarge
    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

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