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  1. #1
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    Goofing off with a 4L60 and an E92

    Well- I told you I would be messing with one.
    Today seemed to be the right day. So, just for fun we decided to pull this manual trans out so we could goof off with some "what if's" Click here to enlarge


    Oh, and meet Jerry Click here to enlarge
    I have known him for about 13 years- He's been working on BMW's for as long as I have, and he's a master BMW tech like myself.
    We have the same mentality, the same goals, the same ideological vision for the business- and I don't have to babysit him Click here to enlarge
    I GLADLY hired my best friend to work with me. I LOVE MY JOB!

    Click here to enlarge

    hmm....... not worka so good lol






    This 4l60 has a removable bellhousing- so I got to thinking, i just need to stuff the tranny up into the tunnel and measure stuff.
    hmm..... no go. big clunky GM bellhousing....
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    lets take off this pesky bellhousing.
    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge


    This is what I call "cardboard CAD" Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge




    so, lets try stuffing the transmission up there with that offending bellhousing out of the way.
    This converter is about 11 1/2". the factory auto flexplate and the manual flywheel is about 10 1/2"..... so i think a converter could be made to bolt onto the auto flexplate.Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge



    First off, this tab would have to get whacked off so it doesnt hit the left side of the tunnel.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge


    Secondly, the bellhousing would be a TIGHT fit between the downpipes and the converter- remember pull 1/2" of space on the converter if we went to a 10 1/2".... so this may solve itself here.Click here to enlarge

    Then you have the back end of the transmission on the left.... This (i think?) is the parking pawl. This would be a REQUIREMENT to cut the floor out and make a "bubble" in the sheetmetal. more on that later.
    Click here to enlarge


    So then on the right front of the case, you have these servo's just sticking out with this heatshield. No bueno. It hits the tunnel as well. More cutting is needed.Click here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

    Oh yea, whack this tab off too.
    Click here to enlarge


    So the overall length is pretty decent. Remember, you would be going to a slip shaft-single piece driveshaft, so factor that into the equation- you transmission swapping innovators, you Click here to enlarge
    I wouldnt expect any less than $500-700 for a QUALITY performance driveshaft. I use Jess @ high angle driveshaft in California. He's been making me driveshafts as long as I've been screwing around on cars. He is not cheap, but he is quality. And when (on my last driveshaft he built me) your running 500 hp and 750 ft/tq in an old F150 running a spooled 9" and turning 38.5x11.x15 super swamper boggers while competing, you dont skimp on driveline components Click here to enlarge


    overall depth/pan location isnt bad either. Remember, I cant get this tranny up to crankshaft line, due to the restrictions i pointed out above. Its about 1 1/2" too low right now... so I wouldnt expect the transmission pan to be an anchor.

    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge



    yea, one more thing- the downpipe/exhaust may hit the side of the trans. you may have to make this go around the trans pan with some mods to the inside exhaust pipe.Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge


    So, back to the cutting and stuff.
    These are approximate areas that would have to be cut out.
    Luckily, we have a stripped out E92 M3 race car that is getting chassis reinforcement right now- so this was a slam dunk easy peasy picture to show you.
    Basically, the center console would have to come out, the carpet cut under the console/dash area and seat removed so the carpet could be flipped up out of the way.
    Then, I think some simple plasma cutter work could make the clearance hole while the car is up on the lift and the transmission is being put in the car.. That way we know where the clearance needs to be. After that, i think some sheetmetal with a cup shape would be welded in to make the clearance of the servo and parking pawl..... little paint, little trim of the foam on the back of the carpet- i bet you wouldn't even know it was under there.

    Then again, we are talking a LOT of work to do this.

    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge




    So, at the end of the day- is the 4L60e the way to go? It sure would be nice due to simplicity ............oh- did I mention the dipstick tube is the RIGHT FRONT CORNER of the pan? Like near the exhaust? So perhaps we could use a Lokar transmission flexible dipstick..... and with an available transmission controller, we could program it to work.
    But its only a 4 speed.


    So then I looked at a 6L80/90E. It has a "better" shape, although its bigger- I think it could fit without tunnel mods (maybe a few whacks with a dead blow, but not surgery.
    BUT- no one has a transmission controller to run it. There is a local shop that will build them to hold 1000hp...... but we cant control it with a stand-alone controller.... (uses a CAN network like the mechatronics does) That sucks.

    Click here to enlarge

    Then I looked into a mustang 6r80E.... basically a 6HP26 rebadged and in a different case...... the bellhousing is H>U>G>E..... and not removable (without force Click here to enlarge)

    Click here to enlarge

    So I thought HEY! why not try to stuff a 6HP26 up there! Duh Bueller, the bellhousing is HUGE and not removable.... But that would be neat to whack off the bellhousing and run it off the front pump bolts like a turbo 400 does....

    like this:

    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by alex@ABRhouston; 10-04-2013 at 12:40 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Great job... so proud of you guys having PRIDE in a really useful skill... good workmanship goes a long way nowadays

    A+
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  3. #3
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    Awesome stuff for the 6AT crowd....


    NOW I know this is something that's not a priority, but if we swap to any of these AT trans do we lose control of gear selection or would we still get DS/Manual mode as if it was the OEM trans?
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  4. #4
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Group.america Click here to enlarge
    Great job... so proud of you guys having PRIDE in a really useful skill... good workmanship goes a long way nowadays

    A+


    Let me tell you what: Sometimes I feel like giving up, then I remember i have to many haters to prove wrong Click here to enlarge


    Having my best friend Jerry join the team is really an awesome thing.

    We were talking about it-
    Who would have thought we would have gone thru tech skool together, moved 1500 miles apart and 13 years later be working together? I wouldn't.
    But you know what? He brings a LOT to the table that I don't- and Im VERY excited for what the future holds.
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  5. #5
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Awesome stuff for the 6AT crowd....


    NOW I know this is something that's not a priority, but if we swap to any of these AT trans do we lose control of gear selection or would we still get DS/Manual mode as if it was the OEM trans?

    You would have to incorporate some type of shifter assembly to work with the BMW shifter assembly....

    I would guess some type of doohickie could be fabbed up on the end of the BMW cable shifter and attached to the case to run the GM's shift lever..... I just fixed a shift lever on my buddies H2 hummer, it looks pretty straight forward.
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    I spot a "SDMF" tattoo Click here to enlarge BLS FTW
    Click here to enlarge
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  7. #7
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    I spot a "SDMF" tattoo Click here to enlarge BLS FTW
    For sure Click here to enlarge

    I told Jerry at my funeral to play "In this river"

    He's a long time musician who has had a few bands that kick butt. He's kicked a few labels because he can't "stay true" to his music. All they want to do is make money. He wants to play.

    Like I said, We have good times together Click here to enlarge

    Did I mention I love my job?
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  8. #8
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    For sure Click here to enlarge

    I told Jerry at my funeral to play "In this river"

    He's a long time musician who has had a few bands that kick butt. He's kicked a few labels because he can't "stay true" to his music. All they want to do is make money. He wants to play.

    Like I said, We have good times together Click here to enlarge

    Did I mention I love my job?

    I hear ya brother.... have some mates here in the Hamptons who are world class working for tips n drinks.... lived in Vegas and saw great talent every night... I play guitar a bit but I suck.......

    I always loved the real musicians in the world.... just wish I caught SRV before he died on Claptons chopper
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    Click here to enlarge



  9. #9
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    Ok sick ass thread! You post some great stuff.

  10. #10
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    I spot a "SDMF" tattoo Click here to enlarge BLS FTW
    What does this mean?

  11. #11
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  12. #12
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    That helped. Never even heard of it.

  13. #13
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    That helped. Never even heard of it.
    Click here to enlarge
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  14. #14
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    And I'm kind of glad.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    Aaah, the old School District of Menomonee Falls. Love those guys!

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    any updates?

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    well, yea.


    The 4l60E core i borrowed got sent back to the tranny guys

    Then I put the flywheel and clutch that was supposed to go in this car, and gave it back to the customer lol


    But, i haven't given up yet.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    well, yea.


    The 4l60E core i borrowed got sent back to the tranny guys

    Then I put the flywheel and clutch that was supposed to go in this car, and gave it back to the customer lol


    But, i haven't given up yet.
    I would still think one of the Ford transmissions would be the way to go since they have been built and seem to have also have TCU tuning options. What about the 6r60? And do you plan on still trying to see what happend with the 6r80 or 6hp26? Ford parts are much cheaper, would be nice if there's an option there! lol
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    the issue lays into the fact that the guts of a 6HP26 is a whole different ballgame compared to a 6HP19 or 21.
    I have a spare 6HP26 sitting here from a 545. the bellhousing becomes the issue. and the mechatronics. and the size.

    Im trying to get my hands on a 6R80, or a 5R110W or something of that sort. I honestly think we need to start looking outside the box.

    Ive blasted off some emails and made some calls.
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  20. #20
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    The things I'd do to have an apprentice job at your shop...

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    If you go with a 6r80 or hp26 you still have mechatronic programming issues. 6r80 still has a mechatronic which is tied to some ford PCM or something. Nobody has programmed the TCU in either successfully afaik. And by that I mean with a custom flash.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwtek Click here to enlarge
    The things I'd do to have an apprentice job at your shop...
    I am looking for a floor scrubber/ tile mopper/ trash dumper/ window washing/ bathroom cleaning/ beer and whiskey running/ parts cleaning/ part time person. The guy here right now is my FFL SOT 3 dealer who comes in after work. He's got an assignment coming up at work, so he cant help here any longer. So, i need someone to replace him, like m/w/f type of gig for 4-6 hours or something.

    Working here ain't glorious. But it does have its perks. I want this to GRRRRROOOOOOOOWWWWWW but you gotta take baby steps to make it happen.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    If you go with a 6r80 or hp26 you still have mechatronic programming issues. 6r80 still has a mechatronic which is tied to some ford PCM or something. Nobody has programmed the TCU in either successfully afaik. And by that I mean with a custom flash.
    yea, we are pretty aware of that, but still, looking is looking.

    I need to take some measurements of the 5R110W in my superduty and see what it looks like. It makes 378/790 to the ground and has no issues pushing it. I know they can take some serious abuse, especially when built up.

    or maybe an allison.
    or something. Still brainstorming over at the transmission shop. I think if my tranny guy was more "high performance" oriented he would have a better mind on what to use/do, but he's just a stock rebuilder who supplies parts and stuff.....
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    why don't built stronger internals for the 6hp21 and reprogram the TCU?

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    yea...... doesnt work like that.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135idct Click here to enlarge
    why don't built stronger internals for the 6hp21 and reprogram the TCU?
    Closest anyone has gotten is Level 10, they did the parts which weren't actually proven to be any stronger, and had no flash to go along with them, so guys have done the Alpina flash, but still it seems mixed reviews with still issues arising, and that's low mileage testing, so definitely not a proven fix. The TCU on our cars is pretty much impossible to crack, would honestly need someone on the inside most likely to have a chance at that. (like from ZF lol)

    Best choice is definitely swapping trans, but it's just a matter of finding the right now, ideally speaking it's something that would be simple electronically...is a 6 speed with existing upgrade options to hold large power, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg or is super rare to find. Definitely a challenge.

    Alex, how large is the 6r60? I was told upgrade kits for the 6r80 are interchangeable to the 6r60, so same internals I suppose, or at least clutch pack, just not sure on the rest of the trans.

    http://www.transmissioncenter.net/6R...sion_Parts.htm
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